Our neighbors at the marina caught what they insisted was a grouper today. When I showed them the differences in a fish I.D. book they seemed to be sorry about catching it. I had them call 1-800-DFG-Caltip to let them know that they caught one without knowing what it was. Why is it do difficult for fishermen to learn what fish are legal before going out fishing?
I talked to the Harbor Patrol and they said that since the fish was already dead it was up to DFG to decide whether to take any action, but that was unlikely.
merxlin
June 24th, 2012, 07:37 PM
Did THEY have a fish ID book, or any way to identify what they were catching? If not, I'd be persistent with DFG about what they do about this. Simply inexcusable.
FrankPro1
June 24th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Your right merxlin, it is simply inexcusable! Regardless if they knew what it was or not, the DFG should enforce the law and cite these individuals. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse!
Today before my dive at Veterans park, I scoped the peninsula dive spots. At Marineland there were two fisherman with lines in the water off the short point towards 120 reef. Earlier in the week on another scope session there, I stopped a group of Latino fisherman heading down the path. I informed them of the closure and the possible fines which would incur if caught. They apologized and quickly left.
Why is there no signs at Terranea, Abalone Cove and Pt. Vicente informing the public of the fishing closures?! Laguna beach has them! Why not us? Is it just typical government timing and the signs are in the works but not yet implemented?
keithbt
June 24th, 2012, 08:47 PM
arent groupers protected also?
fnfalman
June 25th, 2012, 10:51 AM
I didn't realize that there are groupers that big in SoCal water.
drbill
June 25th, 2012, 11:00 AM
Although I've never seen one, broomtail grouper (Mycteroperca xenarcha) although considered subtropical are found in southern California and may reach a maximum of five feet.
MaxBottomtime
June 25th, 2012, 01:28 PM
There is a YouTube video of two Broomtail groupers at the Redondo Beach breakwater. The Harbor Patrol officers told me that they still see them in the kelp near the King Harbor opening.
Thiad
June 25th, 2012, 02:03 PM
It's very sad but just like the shark last year taken from the pier (the GW or was it a mako??), some people fish without really knowing what they're fishing for. Wouldn't it be interesting if anglers were required to keep a fish ID book (along with MPA maps) in their tackle box or risk a fine? I know that would cause some serious grumbling but it might actually stop some of this.
TSandM
June 25th, 2012, 02:45 PM
Once you have hooked a fish and pulled it out of the water to identify it, what's the likelihood of it surviving if returned to the water? I ask because I honestly don't know.
Divebum Don
June 25th, 2012, 03:08 PM
Giant sea bass was originally assigned to the grouper family, Serranidae, but was later placed in a new family called the Percichthyidae (Domeier 2001). I love the idea of a F&G guide given away with all rods and spearguns purchased. Or even the concept of a "101" test as we have with firearms?? I don't like new "Laws" and Regs, but it may be in order here??
TS&M, most fish's recover fine from "catch and release" (as long as their not gut hooked), however GSB's and other deep water rockfish can suffer when they're brought up to the shallows.
Thiad
June 25th, 2012, 04:31 PM
Once you have hooked a fish and pulled it out of the water to identify it, what's the likelihood of it surviving if returned to the water? I ask because I honestly don't know.
A friend of mine who deep sea fishes mentioned that a few years back. By the time the fish makes it to the surface, he said they're usually dead or well on their way to being dead. But, you still can't bring the fish onboard and if you do, you risk the fines.
I know a lot of sport shops that sell licenses seem to stock the F&G guides - many right next to the cash register (it probably is a requirement if they sell a license??). Ignorance of the rules and regulations is nothing more than someone being lazy. Maybe start slapping people with serious fines? Take away your ability to get a license for 5 to 10 years?
Hank49
June 25th, 2012, 05:04 PM
A friend of mine who deep sea fishes mentioned that a few years back. By the time the fish makes it to the surface, he said they're usually dead or well on their way to being dead. But, you still can't bring the fish onboard and if you do, you risk the fines.
If grouper are brought up from the deep and their swim bladder is sticking out of their mouth, I think they're done for. I've heard you can deflate it with something and they go back down but I would think it might get an infection or some other problems.
But the catch and release rules are a little shady. I was at the pier at Sebastian Inlet in FL watching people fish. There was a game warden making sure no one had a mutton snapper or other fish less than 16 inches. I watched a couple of obviously inexperienced fisherkids pull one up and than take 5 minutes wrestling with it as it flopped around on the hot cement before they could get it off the hook. There is little chance that the fish would survive that. But, they had to throw it back.
Peter_C
June 25th, 2012, 05:49 PM
If grouper are brought up from the deep and their swim bladder is sticking out of their mouth, I think they're done for. I've heard you can deflate it with something and they go back down but I would think it might get an infection or some other problems.
Some of the local boats are starting to use a lead weight rigged with a release that once back at the bottom they cut the fish loose. Supposedly they have a better chance of surviving going back to the deep water. Otherwise if they are fishing deeper all the catch pretty much dies. Of course it is nature and something will eat them, or so trying to see the bright side goes.
Catching fish and releasing them is hard on them, but most survive if taken from shallow depths. Even a hook left in the mouth doesn't mean it is going to die.
Hank49
June 25th, 2012, 06:03 PM
Some of the local boats are starting to use a lead weight rigged with a release that once back at the bottom they cut the fish loose. Supposedly they have a better chance of surviving going back to the deep water. Otherwise if they are fishing deeper all the catch pretty much dies. Of course it is nature and something will eat them, or so trying to see the bright side goes.
Catching fish and releasing them is hard on them, but most survive if taken from shallow depths. Even a hook left in the mouth doesn't mean it is going to die.
I've shot a few cuberas with hooks in their mouth.
A guy was here from Texas last year and said that the worst is when guys fly fish for strong fish like permit. The fight for a long time on the light tackle and go back in the water exhausted.
MaxBottomtime
June 25th, 2012, 06:04 PM
Broomtail groupers,
Mycteroperca xenarcha near the Redondo Beach breakwall
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TSandM
June 25th, 2012, 06:32 PM
Well, if the fish don't survive being pulled up, is there any way to modify one's fishing technique to avoid catching these particular fish? It seems less than productive to allow the act of fishing, which kills the fish before the person holding the pole knows what they have, and then punish the person for having pulled up the wrong sort of fish.
Interesting information, Max, thank you. Maybe this will help any fishermen/divers who might read this thread, too.
Divebum Don
June 25th, 2012, 10:16 PM
Awesome Vids and lucky divers! The elusive Broomtail, Sweet!
There is some gadgetry available to help the deep fish recover from surfacing, but it's all a little weird...
drbill
June 26th, 2012, 11:26 AM
Actually giant sea bass can survive being brought up since they generally are in "shallow" water during the summer mating season. Puncturing the air bladder with a knife or ice pick is the old way anglers would try to deflate the bladder so they could swim back down, but this carries a strong risk of infection and death. I know of several anglers who have accidentally caught one and then swam it down to depth by holding onto it. That would be preferable.
By the way... a report last night of a great white taking and eating a giant sea bass right off Avalon Bay. No particular yet, but it apparently was witnessed by a broadbill boat anchored off the dive park.
Peter_C
June 26th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Well, if the fish don't survive being pulled up, is there any way to modify one's fishing technique to avoid catching these particular fish? It seems less than productive to allow the act of fishing, which kills the fish before the person holding the pole knows what they have, and then punish the person for having pulled up the wrong sort of fish.
Unfortunately many different types of fish eat the same types of food. For instance you may be fishing for ling cod, and pull up a rock fish, or vice versa. Of course I got caught once a scuba diver even, and they were fishing inside the marine reserve at Gerstle Cove.
You do not get punished for landing a fish out of season or one that is protected, you get punished for keeping one. So say you catch a rock fish out of season from 200 ft deep. You bring it to the surface and it's sack is popping out it's mouth and the eyes are popping out of it's head from being brought up too fast. You remove the hook and throw it back overboard. The fish can't swim back down and flounders at the surface as you re-bait your hook and cast again. You wouldn't have done anything wrong since you returned the fish to the ocean.
The commercial party boats devastate the coastline here. Imagine 15 rods around the boat with a constant catch being brought in.
"By Catch" is a horrible word in the fishing industry that is not often talked about. We all remember the dolphins and tuna right? How about shrimp fishing and all the life forms stripped from the bottom? Goes for just about every type of catch brought up in a net, let alone long line fishing (Think sharks).
Hank49
June 26th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Well, if the fish don't survive being pulled up, is there any way to modify one's fishing technique to avoid catching these particular fish?
Yes. Spearfishing.
drbill
June 27th, 2012, 12:43 PM
The commercial party boats devastate the coastline here. Imagine 15 rods around the boat with a constant catch being brought in.
Imagine nearly 100 rods on a single boat as can be seen on some of the party boats that fish Catalina's reefs. Often these anglers are targeting reef associated fish that stick on one reef much of their lives. Think of the impact of boats like this fishing for species like kelp bass which can only be targeted by recreational anglers rather than commercial.
H2Ocean
June 28th, 2012, 04:05 AM
It's so odd that a state mandated regulated fishing license (w/federally protected certain species,) has absolutely no pre exam or training for fishing. The regs are puzzling, unless you "know" fish species, it's a gamble that some are going to catch and be thrilled with a trophy prize protected fish, without knowing it. Sure it's everyone's responsibility to "know" these things. It'd be like purchasing a drivers license and learning on the road the laws. Driving School, you have to pass before getting the license, if you can't tell what a school bus is, or a stop sign, they don't just let you figure it out later. It's a major state flaw,the state is blowing it big time by not having a course to pass before giving the fishing licence. The only thing I can figure out why it matters any at all in driving licenses is dead people can't pay taxes. Fish, as unique as black sea bass, great white sharks, accidently caught-illegal-doesn't really mean that much to Sacramento/DFG/or the people. A simple on-site monitor, a pass or fail exam, every year.
---------- Post Merged at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 12:50 AM ----------
the current DFG regulations now have examples of non puncture releasing deep water caught rock fish by weighted crate or weighted barbless hook tied a certain way, and dropped back down. It looks like a big pain in the but to do, although the regs say it works, who knows, maybe in just bringing fish food back to the bottom.
drbill
June 28th, 2012, 10:33 AM
To correct information I previously posted in this thread. It was initially reported that the great white shark took a giant sea bass off Avalon, but it is now known it was a sea lion.
IrishPaul
July 1st, 2012, 11:06 PM
To correct information I previously posted in this thread. It was initially reported that the great white shark took a giant sea bass off Avalon, but it is now known it was a sea lion.
