One of the few and not so proud... Bent in Cozumel

[DiverG]

Sort and sweet as Internet reception is poor in my room.Went into the chamber at 11:30 Pm Sunday night. Did a table 6 ride for 4' 45" stayed the day at the clinic and did a table 9 modified for 2'30" today at 4:30 pm. Will see Dr. Piccolo at 9 am tomorrow, and he'll decide then if I'm back in the chamber or not.I'm ok but recommend that you skip getting bent especially at the start of your trip.

[Cyprian]

Sorry to hear about this on the start of your trip, but glad to hear you are ok and recovering! Keep your head up. :)

[wedivebc]

Nothing to be ashamed about getting bent. The more you dive the higher the probability it will happen.
Sorry it ruined your trip.

[TSandM]

Surprisingly enough, it's more common to get bent at the beginning of a trip.

Assuming the dive was reasonably executed, there is nothing to be ashamed of about being bent. All decompression algorithms are risk-mitigation, not risk nullification devices. Although it isn't common, people do get bent when diving within their no-deco limits, and executing proper ascents. I hope you share that information with us, when you are feeling better.

[Christi]

Greg - I am sooo sorry to hear this - but welcome to the club! Nothing to be ashamed about!

Sorry I can't come see you or help you - I am on a flight to TX tomorrow to be with my family - we had a very sudden and tragic death in our family yesterday.

Feel better and listen to PIccolo!!

[mala]

what was the dive profile?

[yodelhawk]

Don't know what to tell you, but give you the old chuck on the shoulder n tell you I'm glad you are still with us.

[Prop Joe]

I wish you the best in your treatment.
Please give details when and if you feel up to it.
Be well.

[Texas Torpedo]

Greg,
I'm really sorry to hear this.. Especially at the start of your trip! I imagine doing chamber rides is never fun but I'll have to share your sentiments without the experience at this point..
Hopefully you will still be able to make the 4th of July sunset cruise..
You are in great hands with Dr. Piccolo and his nurses!
Get better soon!
David

[Scuba_Noob]

Sad that it happened early in your trip. At least you're getting the proper treatment at a good facility. Hopefully you're feeling better. I'm curious about the dive profile as well (and how long from flying your dives were), but I'm sure your dive was reasonable and it was just a bit of bad luck.

[DandyDon]

I think I read that 85% of serious dive accidents happen the first day of a trip. I need to find that source.

Glad you're getting help...

[awap]

My last trip to Cozumel, I went with a package at the Allegro and dove with ProDive. Their package was very reasonably priced and included FREE nitrox. I was quite surprised at how much of a difference it made in my N2 loading. On air, my Cozumel dive profiles usually have me working close to or in the yellow on my Oceanic TLBG (about 80% of maximum allowed N2 load). On EAN32, my dives were running between 1/2 and 2/3 in the green (in the 40% to 60% of maximum allowed N2 load range). In the future, I think I will be going with at least one tank per day of EAN.

[parrotheaddiver]

glad to hear you are doing better...I hope you get good news from the Doc today...sorry you dive trip was ruined...keep us posted

[cvchief]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!!

[Zman96]

Sorry the trip got off to a terrible start. Hope the recovery is quick and you can enjoy a little island land time.

[ddeborahdelamar]

On to Plan B: Relax & recover. Hope symptoms resolve quickly & you feel better soon. Need anything brought over to the hotel -- books, DVDs, cards, etc?

[nimoh]

Sort and sweet as Internet reception is poor in my room.Went into the chamber at 11:30 Pm Sunday night. Did a table 6 ride for 4' 45" stayed the day at the clinic and did a table 9 modified for 2'30" today at 4:30 pm. Will see Dr. Piccolo at 9 am tomorrow, and he'll decide then if I'm back in the chamber or not.I'm ok but recommend that you skip getting bent especially at the start of your trip.

when you say 4'45" and 2'30", are you saying you were in the chamber for 4 minutes and 45 seconds, and 2 minutes and 30 seconds?

Never having had the bends, and based on my limited understanding, I am assuming you meant to say 4 hours and 45 minutes, and 2 hours and 30 minutes.

Anyway, glad you are feeling better

[cvchief]

when you say 4'45" and 2'30", are you saying you were in the chamber for 4 minutes and 45 seconds, and 2 minutes and 30 seconds?

Never having had the bends, and based on my limited understanding, I am assuming you meant to say 4 hours and 45 minutes, and 2 hours and 30 minutes.

Anyway, glad you are feeling better

Seriously? Fresh outta the chamber and you ding him on his notations. :shakehead:

From wiki:

Representative diving tables

U.S. Navy Table 6 consists of compression to the depth of 60 feet (18 m) with the patient on oxygen. The diver is later decompressed to 30 feet (9.1 m) on oxygen, then slowly returned to surface pressure. This table typically takes 4 hours 45 minutes. It may be extended further. It is the most common treatment for type 2 decompression illness.

[ReefHound]

Best wishes in your recovery, Greg. I'll buy ya a beer at the next CHUM meeting in exchange for the story...

[Insta-Gator]

Greg, glad you're ok and feeling better. Don't be too up set, it could have been much worse.

I'm here in the hotel if you need any assistance. :thumb:

[RickyF]

Really sorry to hear this. Praying for a speedy recovery. Relax and get well.

[prosdog]

Sorry you had to go through that. One of my deepest fears is having to go through a chamber ride. I don't like being in locked rooms, they'd have to sedate me to the point I didn't know my name. Good luck in your recovery.

[mstevens]

Sorry to hear about this.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll try to follow it.

[DiverG]

Just got back from seeing Dr. Piccolo, and he said I'm progressing well. No chamber rides for me today. I'm seriously considering leaving Thursday since he doesn't want me to do much at all. He also makes the case that DAN will reimburse me my hotel/divecosts from the date of the incident if my travel insurance doesn't. Might be hard to pass up as I could use that money to pay for my next trip.By the way, here is a rough estimate of my total bill for treatment in the chamber and hospital. Hospital is about 8100 pesos and the total chamber fees will be about $6,800 US. My total insurance cost between DAN and additional trip/medical insurance was about $200. I think I made a wise investment.

[beaverdivers]

Make sure that you follow DAN's mandatory No- Fly recommendation specific to your case!

If you violate their mandate your DAN insuance will be void.

We had a diver get bend and wanted to leave, but he had to wait a couple of days per DAN's specific No-Fly requirement.

[DiverG]

Beaver, the doc said if things stay the same I'll be good to fly on Thursday.

[beaverdivers]

Great! But still check with DAN directly about your coverage and No-Fly time.

The Doc is probably correct.

[boulderjohn]

Surprisingly enough, it's more common to get bent at the beginning of a trip.



I think I read that 85% of serious dive accidents happen the first day of a trip. I need to find that source.


Sorry about your hit, and glad to hear you are getting better.

I heard the first day statistics in a presentation at a dive shop given by someone from DAN. She said that not only do 80% of all DCS cases happen on the first fay of a dive trip, more than 80% of those first day DCS cases happen on the first dive.

There is a statistical factor that needs to be weighed in--you don't go diving again after you get such a hit. (Tell people that 100% of all serious ski accidents happen on the skier's last run of the day and see how long it takes them to figure that out.) Even calculating in that factor, it is still a significant statistic.

[beaverdivers]

If you get hurt the first day of ski season, you may be out for the year.

[nimoh]

Seriously? Fresh outta the chamber and you ding him on his notations. :shakehead:

From wiki:

Representative diving tables

U.S. Navy Table 6 consists of compression to the depth of 60 feet (18 m) with the patient on oxygen. The diver is later decompressed to 30 feet (9.1 m) on oxygen, then slowly returned to surface pressure. This table typically takes 4 hours 45 minutes. It may be extended further. It is the most common treatment for type 2 decompression illness.

I apologize, don't know much about being in a chamber, and have no idea if 5 minutes or 5 hours is typical.

[Cozdreamer]

The best thing is that you are still alive getting to type your story! I know your family is feeling blessed to be telling you the same. You should NOT even be worried about a feeling of shame! I certainly pass no judgement....had to watch my husband take a dive in the Cozumel chamber with your same doctors back in 2007. Do what he tells you to, not any of us! It will mean the difference of you diving again within a year or not at all! DAN also saved us loads of $$$$ for that chamber ride. NO SHAME!.... you can "pay it forward" by spreading the word to other divers to get DAN and how DAN helped you.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, but realize there could have been a much different thread about you here on ScubaBoard instead of one written by you! Feel blessed......take the time to relax and count your blessings in your life that you've been given a 2nd chance with....Good luck :)

[chrpai]

I apologize, don't know much about being in a chamber, and have no idea if 5 minutes or 5 hours is typical.

I'm trying not to sound snarky, but really?? I don't understand how in your diving career up to DiveMaster and your upcoming GUE fundamentals you couldn't have been exposed to enough decompression theory to know that chamber dives are substantially longer then a 3 minute safety stop.

[mala]

Just got back from seeing Dr. Piccolo, and he said I'm progressing well. No chamber rides for me today. I'm seriously considering leaving Thursday since he doesn't want me to do much at all. He also makes the case that DAN will reimburse me my hotel/divecosts from the date of the incident if my travel insurance doesn't. Might be hard to pass up as I could use that money to pay for my next trip.By the way, here is a rough estimate of my total bill for treatment in the chamber and hospital. Hospital is about 8100 pesos and the total chamber fees will be about $6,800 US. My total insurance cost between DAN and additional trip/medical insurance was about $200. I think I made a wise investment.

glad you are on the mend.
what sort of dive profile was it?

[DandyDon]

He apologized...!

I apologize, don't know much about being in a chamber, and have no idea if 5 minutes or 5 hours is typical.
Misunderstandings happen. Under stress he did indeed post 4' 45" so the confusion is understandable enough. I've never done a chamber ride either, nor been on a tour. We learn much of this by reading here, and now you know. :thumb:

[nimoh]

I'm trying not to sound snarky, but really?? I don't understand how in your diving career up to DiveMaster and your upcoming GUE fundamentals you couldn't have been exposed to enough decompression theory to know that chamber dives are substantially longer then a 3 minute safety stop.


now that you mention it, I find it hard to believe that I didn't know that either, live and learn.

[Gravybird]

I am sorry to hear this. How long does a diver typically have to wait to dive again after recovering from the bends? If I learned this in the past, I don't recall:-)

[mala]

Nothing to be ashamed about getting bent. The more you dive the higher the probability it will happen.
Sorry it ruined your trip.

interesting point.
is it more likely that an inexperienced once a year holiday diver would have more chance of getting bent than someone who dives regularly?

[cvchief]

now that you mention it, I find it hard to believe that I didn't know that either, live and learn.

Fair enough.

[boulderjohn]

interesting point.
is it more likely that an inexperienced once a year holiday diver would have more chance of getting bent than someone who dives regularly?

In terms of lifetime statistics, certainly not; however, on a single given dive--who knows?

There are many who believe that regular divers develop some kind of resistance to the factors leading to DCS. I have no idea if this is true, but there are some who believe it.

[mala]

In terms of lifetime statistics, certainly not; however, on a single given dive--who knows?

There are many who believe that regular divers develop some kind of resistance to the factors leading to DCS. I have no idea if this is true, but there are some who believe it.

i guess 1 of the major factors giving regular divers resistance to dcs would be bouyancy control.

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Surprisingly enough, it's more common to get bent at the beginning of a trip.

Assuming the dive was reasonably executed, there is nothing to be ashamed of about being bent. All decompression algorithms are risk-mitigation, not risk nullification devices. Although it isn't common, people do get bent when diving within their no-deco limits, and executing proper ascents. I hope you share that information with us, when you are feeling better.

i hope so too

---------- Post Merged at 11:32 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:37 PM ----------

is there any chance that the op is going to tell us why he got bent?

[cvchief]

is there any chance that the op is going to tell us why he got bent?

I have heard stories about people getting bent without a clear reason, i.e. good, safe, profiles, long SI. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP didn't have a clue why. Keeps me buying Nitrox.....

[mala]

I have heard stories about people getting bent without a clear reason, i.e. good, safe, profiles, long SI. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP didn't have a clue why. Keeps me buying Nitrox.....

well at least he could tell us if he was snorkling or doing a tech dive.

[cicopo]

Sorry to read about your misfortune but as many have said things could have gone much worse. It's a good thing you were at a destination with a chamber right there plus the fact you admitted to yourself that something wasn't right. Safety first is a great moto but we don't always follow that advice, but it sounds like you did & with a good outcome. Speedy recovery

Larry

[wedivebc]

interesting point.
is it more likely that an inexperienced once a year holiday diver would have more chance of getting bent than someone who dives regularly?
I wasn't actually making any comparison to frequent vs. infrequent divers. There is a school of thought that says frequent divers are less likely to get bent. The important thing to realize is people often try to find fault when a DSC incident occurs and usually there is no key trigger. Just as tables are based on statistcal probability the occurance of DCS should follow the same trends. There is never a need to feel ashamed or at fault when these things occur. I have had several brushes with DCS even though I tend to follow conservative decompression schedules.

[mala]

I wasn't actually making any comparison to frequent vs. infrequent divers. There is a school of thought that says frequent divers are less likely to get bent. The important thing to realize is people often try to find fault when a DSC incident occurs and usually there is no key trigger. Just as tables are based on statistcal probability the occurance of DCS should follow the same trends. There is never a need to feel ashamed or at fault when these things occur. I have had several brushes with DCS even though I tend to follow conservative decompression schedules.

there is always a reason
about 2% are medical anomalies or fall outside the standard distribution for some reason.
the other 98% get dcs because of poor diving practice.

2p

[DandyDon]

there is always a reason
about 2% are medical anomalies or fall outside the standard distribution for some reason.
the other 98% get dcs because of poor diving practice.

2p
That is contrary to my understanding. Got a source...??

[cvchief]

is there any chance that the op is going to tell us why he got bent?


well at least he could tell us if he was snorkling or doing a tech dive.


there is always a reason
about 2% are medical anomalies or fall outside the standard distribution for some reason.
the other 98% get dcs because of poor diving practice.

2p

So, you figure he was doing something wrong and you wanted the op to rat him out for a dive faux pas?

Maybe he will speculate on it himself for us? Perhaps he can read the DAN Article (http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=65) and pick out some risk factors or perhaps he is one of the refered to when they say, "Since DCI is a random event, almost any dive profile can result in DCI, no matter how safe it seems."

[mdax]

I'd be interested to know the dive profile and fitness level. Course now is the time to hydrate, heal and get lots of rest.

[islanddream]

Just got back from seeing Dr. Piccolo, and he said I'm progressing well. No chamber rides for me today. I'm seriously considering leaving Thursday since he doesn't want me to do much at all. He also makes the case that DAN will reimburse me my hotel/divecosts from the date of the incident if my travel insurance doesn't. Might be hard to pass up as I could use that money to pay for my next trip.By the way, here is a rough estimate of my total bill for treatment in the chamber and hospital. Hospital is about 8100 pesos and the total chamber fees will be about $6,800 US. My total insurance cost between DAN and additional trip/medical insurance was about $200. I think I made a wise investment.

Hi Diver G:

I'm SO glad you're feeling better and arrived at the chamber in time to get treatment. From your post, you've given all of us a great reminder to keep our DAN insurance current. I hope you're not beating yourself up---a hit can happen to any of us at any time. Prayers and positive thoughts are coming your way.

islanddream

[DandyDon]

Why the nagging for lurid details? If he wanted to tell more, I think he would have already. You can read hundreds of hit stories on the DAN annual reports. I've been around a few personally and the worst one was horrible, life threatening, weeks of ICU - and to the best anyone at DAN, Duke, or Miami could tell totally undeserved.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/DandyDon/Smilies/caca-1.png

[Sue Sue]

DiverG, We are all pulling for you, Keep up the recovery !!!

---------- Post Merged at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:32 PM ----------

DiverG, We are all pulling for you, Keep up the recovery !!!

[Pelagicsal]

Ah, Greg... I am sad to hear you're out of the water. I am very glad that you are okay and will rally to get wet again in a few months. Hope we meet on a beach then, too, and can trade some dive lies. ;)

Will miss you on the Toucan tomorrow night. Thanks again for putting the trip together. We will make a special get well and get wet toast to you, to be sure.

Rest easy and have a safe trip home. We'll catch you next time, no?

Vaya con Dios, muchacho!
Sallye

[DiverG]

Guys all my posting are coming from an iPhone. Not an easy thing to do long posts with. I will try to give a few details. First dive was on June 26. About 80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes including 5 minute safety stop 15-20 ft depth. 2 hour surface interval followed by a 77 minute dive with a max depth of 70ish. Not sure at the ment as i do not have my computer next to me. Initial symptoms early afternoon with increasing pain before subsiding greatly late at night. Took cavern course for 3 days no issues. Took a day off then did three dives on Sunday in Cozumel. In think 1st dive was around 80 maybe less with about a 1 hour surface interval. Don't recall the second and third dives off the top of my head at the moment.

Symptoms reappeared around 7pm and progressly got worse. Call to Dr. Piccolo was made around 10:30 pm and I was in the chamber around 11:30pm.

Btw the thread title was a play on the US Marine Corp slogan. I'm not embarrased that it happened. It does sick though becaus you not only lose your diving you can't do much of anything else. I have to stay out of the heat, no alcohol, no carbonated drinks, no coffee, tea or anything that will elevated your heart rate.

Btw get dive insurance and in my case I purchased non DAN travel/medical insurance that happens to cover diving at recreational limits. Total cost for both was about $200. My treatment cost Lois to be around 7k, and it looks like it will be totally covered by the insurances. Out pocket expense at the clinic will be about $500 to be reimbursed. Also hoping to recover most of my hotel/div

[DandyDon]

Does sound like a first day hit, if you don't mind - and those dives sound aggressive, depending on the multi-level profile. It'd be nice to see the downloads when you get home, if you want to. I do wonder about the brand of computer, if you got any warnings, or left the water still in the yellow range? While it would have been good to talk to DAN and/or chamber doctor that night, I can understand bluffing thru it. I've done worse. I guess the shallower cavern dives did not aggravate it enough, but the 3 dives at the end aggravated the damages I suppose.

If you have the top DAN insurance, then you have another $5,000 Dive trip interruption. Hope your combined coverage gets most of your money back on the lost portion of the trip so you can redo it when you are well.

[JenLoves2Dive]

WHAT?? I didn't even know you were here! Please send me a message and let me know if you are still in hospital or back at your hotel.
I'll pop over for a visit and I can also bring you some food. Damn sorry to hear about it but so glad that you are okay!! Check your FB messages - I'll send you my cell number. PLEASE message me if you need anything!!

[ggunn]

Guys all my posting are coming from an iPhone. Not an easy thing to do long posts with. I will try to give a few details. First dive was on June 26. About 80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes including 5 minute safety stop 15-20 ft depth. 2 hour surface interval followed by a 77 minute dive with a max depth of 70ish. Not sure at the ment as i do not have my computer next to me. Initial symptoms early afternoon with increasing pain before subsiding greatly late at night. Took cavern course for 3 days no issues. Took a day off then did three dives on Sunday in Cozumel. In think 1st dive was around 80 maybe less with about a 1 hour surface interval. Don't recall the second and third dives off the top of my head at the moment.

Symptoms reappeared around 7pm and progressly got worse. Call to Dr. Piccolo was made around 10:30 pm and I was in the chamber around 11:30pm.

Btw the thread title was a play on the US Marine Corp slogan. I'm not embarrased that it happened. It does sick though becaus you not only lose your diving you can't do much of anything else. I have to stay out of the heat, no alcohol, no carbonated drinks, no coffee, tea or anything that will elevated your heart rate.

Btw get dive insurance and in my case I purchased non DAN travel/medical insurance that happens to cover diving at recreational limits. Total cost for both was about $200. My treatment cost Lois to be around 7k, and it looks like it will be totally covered by the insurances. Out pocket expense at the clinic will be about $500 to be reimbursed. Also hoping to recover most of my hotel/div

---------- Post Merged at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:41 PM ----------

Guys all my posting are coming from an iPhone. Not an easy thing to do long posts with. I will try to give a few details. First dive was on June 26. About 80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes including 5 minute safety stop 15-20 ft depth. 2 hour surface interval followed by a 77 minute dive with a max depth of 70ish. Not sure at the ment as i do not have my computer next to me. Initial symptoms early afternoon with increasing pain before subsiding greatly late at night. Took cavern course for 3 days no issues. Took a day off then did three dives on Sunday in Cozumel. In think 1st dive was around 80 maybe less with about a 1 hour surface interval. Don't recall the second and third dives off the top of my head at the moment.

Symptoms reappeared around 7pm and progressly got worse. Call to Dr. Piccolo was made around 10:30 pm and I was in the chamber around 11:30pm.

Btw the thread title was a play on the US Marine Corp slogan. I'm not embarrased that it happened. It does sick though becaus you not only lose your diving you can't do much of anything else. I have to stay out of the heat, no alcohol, no carbonated drinks, no coffee, tea or anything that will elevated your heart rate.

Btw get dive insurance and in my case I purchased non DAN travel/medical insurance that happens to cover diving at recreational limits. Total cost for both was about $200. My treatment cost Lois to be around 7k, and it looks like it will be totally covered by the insurances. Out pocket expense at the clinic will be about $500 to be reimbursed. Also hoping to recover most of my hotel/diving cost back.

Hope this help a bit.You punched all that out on the tiny virtual keyboard on an iPhone? Wow.

[cvchief]

You punched all that out on the tiny virtual keyboard on an iPhone? Wow.

I heard excessive typing on an iPhone virtual keyboard is a precursor to DCI.....

[DandyDon]

I heard excessive typing on an iPhone virtual keyboard is a precursor to DCI.....
Sounds like he is totally bored...

I have to stay out of the heat, no alcohol, no carbonated drinks, no coffee, tea or anything that will elevated your heart rate.

[DiverG]

Sounds like he is totally bored...
Don, things may finally be looking up for me. Doc said I'm good to fly now. I have a friend that is on the island now who has a general aviation plane, and I asked dr. Piccolo if it was ok to go up on it. He gave me the ok. So hopefully I will finally do something fun post DCS hit.

[DandyDon]

So are you are Hotel Coz with the Invasion...?

[farsidefan1]

Been there done that, Say hi to my friend Dr. Piccolo and his wife. As a result of my having an "unprovoked " incident I had an ASD repaired in my heart. You might want to get checked for a PFO. I sent my profile in to some studies to advance research on decompression. I believe the doctors were at Duke. The more info they can collect the better for all of us. Glad you are ok, hope you had some good insurance. Diveassure paid my entire bill.

[BTravlin]

Does sound like a first day hit, if you don't mind - and those dives sound aggressive, depending on the multi-level profile.

I'm curious as to why you would consider those dives aggressive? Info for the dives is quite sparse and you really can't tell much from it.

[DandyDon]

I'm curious as to why you would consider those dives aggressive? Info for the dives is quite sparse and you really can't tell much from it.
I said they "sound aggressive, depending on the multi-level profile."
He did also mention a long SS and a long SI, but still "80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes" and "77 minute dive with a max depth of 70ish" is not light diving. With the multi-level nature of many PDC dives, his computer may well have been in the green when he left the water both times. :dontknow:

I've done deeper dives the first day of trips.

[BTravlin]

I said they "sound aggressive, depending on the multi-level profile."
He did also mention a long SS and a long SI, but still "80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes" and "77 minute dive with a max depth of 70ish" is not light diving. With the multi-level nature of many PDC dives, his computer may well have been in the green when he left the water both times. :dontknow:

I've done deeper dives the first day of trips.

Okay, I see what you're saying.

The dives I've been doing would seem quite aggressive based solely on max depth and length of dive but given that I always stay within the no deco limits and have a Suunto computer then maybe not so much.

[scubawife]

There are plenty of "undeserved" hits. Getting bent doesn't mean you did something wrong. Research can tell us what we can do to reduce our risk, but there still isn't any definitive science to determine who will get bent and exactly why.

What we do before, between and after dives is just as important as what we do in the water. Diving when you're dehydrated, tired, hungover, etc., is stacking the deck against yourself. Even divers who lead healthy lifestyles need to be careful. If you can't keep from working out on dive days, do your homework and make sure that you're timing your workouts as safely as possible in relation to your dives based on the intensity.

DiverG, hope you make a full recovery and are cleared to get back in the water as soon as possible! Maybe once you have more than your iPhone to work with, you can come back and start another thread about your cavern course? I'd like to hear the details.

[t4e]

He did also mention a long SS




this is a long SS?


About 80 ft max depth total dive time around 50 minutes including 5 minute safety stop 15-20 ft depth.

did i miss the post where he said he was not diving on air?
my tables show 2 SS of 10 minutes each, at 20' and 10' respectively, are needed for that first dive

[DiverG]

my tables show 2 SS of 10 minutes each, at 20' and 10' respectively, are needed for that first diveis that based off an 80ft dive for 50 minutes? I did say my max depth was 80 ft. I did not stay at 80 for 50 minutes. Btw, checked my dive computer and total dive time for 1st dive was 41 minutes.

[DandyDon]

this is a long SS?

did i miss the post where he said he was not diving on air?
my tables show 2 SS of 10 minutes each, at 20' and 10' respectively, are needed for that first dive
Whose tables are you using? 2 - 10 minutes stops for a no deco dive? :silly:

I am such an air hog that I seldom have trouble getting my computer back in the green on two dives with 3 minute SS, depending. I really get bored on 5 minutes SSs. On an 80 foot dive, I'd rather do a 1 minute at 40-45 feet, then 3 more at 15 - but whatever it takes to get my computer back in the green before surfacing. 2 - 10 minute stops would send me back to snorkeling tho.

Two more things I learned from Dr.Deco: Float for a full minute on the surface, no swimming, then let the captain have my gear, rather than climbing it. Reducing efforts after dives helps a lot.

[stevep4444]

That is a great clinic. Did Dr. Piccolo share any possible triggers for your DCS? Assuming you were well within your no decompression limits according to your computer I have trouble understanding that there are not tangible factors that contributed to your illness. Dehydration level,fitness level,smoker vs non,exertion level throughout the dive.Your experience could benefit others through learning the key potential factors that may have contributed.
Be well!

[Pelagicsal]

I really get bored on 5 minutes SSs.

I'm glad I don't! We did about a 15 min hang waiting on the marine park boat last week, and we saw a pair of gorgeous marlins cruising about 4 feet below the surface. I'd hang longer than that to see them again - and, of course, there are the added off-gassing benefits....

[t4e]

is that based off an 80ft dive for 50 minutes? I did say my max depth was 80 ft. I did not stay at 80 for 50 minutes. Btw, checked my dive computer and total dive time for 1st dive was 41 minutes.

yes, i did look it up on 80ft dive for 50 minutes
still 5 minutes seems to me very short
we did 5 minutes for a 50ft max and 40 minutes

Whose tables are you using? 2 - 10 minutes stops for a no deco dive? :silly:



ACUC tables as per above assumptions

[Basscat]

yes, i did look it up on 80ft dive for 50 minutes
still 5 minutes seems to me very short
we did 5 minutes for a 50ft max and 40 minutes


ACUC tables as per above assumptions

Most tables are based on a square profile and the normal Cozumel dive is hardly that. Usually max depth early for a short time and a gradual ascent up the reef. Computers are a better indicator.
Get well fast, DiverG!

[awap]

yes, i did look it up on 80ft dive for 50 minutes
still 5 minutes seems to me very short
we did 5 minutes for a 50ft max and 40 minutes


ACUC tables as per above assumptions

For a 1st dive within NDL, 5 minutes is probably excessive. For 1st dives, limits are being regulated by faster tissues. they load up quickly and the off-gas quickly. after a few days of diving, the slower tissues start to play more of a role and they off-gas more slowly so longer rest stops may be appropriate.

[ianr33]

For a 1st dive within NDL, 5 minutes is probably excessive.

Not sure excessive is the best word. More than the required minimum maybe,but that's fine.

[DandyDon]

ACUC tables as per above assumptions
:confused: Who...?

Padi tables and Oceanic computers are reasonable enough generally. Yeah, some agencies and computers will insist on shorter times and longer SSs so they can call themselves "more conservative," but there is not much to suggest that they are safer. Slow ascents, not surfacing until my computer is in green, the one minute float, nothing strenuous after the dive, good hydration, well rested, etc. will do more than hanging bored watching a timer for 20 minutes of optional SSs.

Kind of like so many screaming that one has to have 24 hours dry before flying. DAN established 10 years ago that 18 hours was plenty after multiple, no deco dives and nothing is really gained by waiting longer - but some zealots think they know more than DAN's results from extensive studies.

[t4e]

:confused: Who...?

an agency that has been around pretty much as long as PADI has and is the only civilian organization recognized by the Canadian Armed Forces

but i have no doubt you are quite capable of using google if you wish




Padi tables and Oceanic computers are reasonable enough generally. Yeah, some agencies and computers will insist on shorter times and longer SSs so they can call themselves "more conservative," but there is not much to suggest that they are safer. Slow ascents, not surfacing until my computer is in green, the one minute float, nothing strenuous after the dive, good hydration, well rested, etc. will do more than hanging bored watching a timer for 20 minutes of optional SSs.

Kind of like so many screaming that one has to have 24 hours dry before flying. DAN established 10 years ago that 18 hours was plenty after multiple, no deco dives and nothing is really gained by waiting longer - but some zealots think they know more than DAN's results from extensive studies.

i'll take the "more conservative" tables over the one once called wheel of death

by all means you're free to choose whatever you think its appropriate, to me going the extra step, even if its a bit exaggerated, to ensure i'm safe out of the water vs hanging bored its a no-brainer, i'll take the first option

[chrpai]

an agency that has been around pretty much as long as PADI has and is the only civilian organization recognized by the Canadian Armed Forces

but i have no doubt you are quite capable of using google if you wish


Snarky comment aside, wikipedia says it's the other way around. That if you certify as a diver in the military you can apply it and be certified as a civilian. Regardless, a national government showing favortism to a company of the same nationality is hardly the mantle to hang the proverbial hat on.

Personally as long as you can get gas fills, I don't care who said you could ( compressor owner or training agency ).

[scubawife]

DiverG, your dives don't seen at all aggressive or unsafe to me. I've had may days with similar dives, multiprofile to those max depths or deeper, 5 min ss and 90-120 min si. Like I said in a previous post, what you do before and after dives can contribute to who gets bent, just as much as what you do on the dive. Before your dive day were you fatigued or tired? Did you get a good night's sleep? Were you well hydrated? Any illness (even a cold or other minor issue)? Any meds? All those things could factor in and add to the risk of taking a hit.

Hope you're continuing to improve. Any word yet on how long you'll need to stay dry before you can return to diving?

[Butch Fries]

Chiming in way late, but I got bent in May on our fourth dive in Coz. San Francisco Reef, 55 feet and 50 minutes, nothing bad about the profile.....I guess you're rolling the dice on every single dive, and this time I rolled and lost.

[zinmaker]

Cudos on recognizing something wasn't right, and going to get checked out! I'm sure you are happy nobody else was in the chamber at the time, and glad they could get you in right away. Sounds like the doctor is top notch. Hoping for a speedy recovery and I'm sure you are already looking forward to your next dive. Didn't catch if you finished your cave diving certification yet, you can definitely be proud of the accomplishment.

[DandyDon]

i'll take the "more conservative" tables over the one once called wheel of death

by all means you're free to choose whatever you think its appropriate, to me going the extra step, even if its a bit exaggerated, to ensure i'm safe out of the water vs hanging bored its a no-brainer, i'll take the first option
Sure, you can chose the ones you want to use. For this or similar discussions, they hardly fit - and telling a bent diver he violated your tables is inappropriate.

Have you dived Cozumel? Did you find buddies who would have that long with you?

[t4e]

Sure, you can chose the ones you want to use. For this or similar discussions, they hardly fit - and telling a bent diver he violated your tables is inappropriate.

i haven't addressed the bent diver, i replied to someone that stated a 5 minute SS was extensive, and i was asking them how that is in comparison to what my table says, hardly inappropriate
i have also stated later on what my assumptions were when i read the table
i guess by that logic analyzing and discussing things can be construed as inappropriate

what is inappropriate is you misinterpreting what i said in my post and pointing fingers

[DiverG]

Let's stop the bickering. The bottom line is I got bent. Most likely on June 26 eventhiugh the symptoms went away before coming back on July 1. On my chamber ride that evening I was drinking lots of water and it still took me over 3 hours in the chamber before I had to urinate. June 26 was a very hot day as was july 1. The night I flew over to Cozumel I got very little sleep. The same as the 2 dives in Cozumel which produced my hit. So I say it was most likely due to dehydration, lack of sleep or at least they were contributing factors.

[scubawife]

Let's stop the bickering. The bottom line is I got bent. Most likely on June 26 eventhiugh the symptoms went away before coming back on July 1. On my chamber ride that evening I was drinking lots of water and it still took me over 3 hours in the chamber before I had to urinate. June 26 was a very hot day as was july 1. The night I flew over to Cozumel I got very little sleep. The same as the 2 dives in Cozumel which produced my hit. So I say it was most likely due to dehydration, lack of sleep or at least they were contributing factors.Glad you're on the mend. I agree with you that the lack of sleep and dehydration would definitely have been contributing factors. Your dives didn't shock me at all, especially since I know Cozumel diving is multi-level profiles. You don't stay at the max depth for any long length of time.

This should be a good reminder for everyone reading your story to keep in mind that what we do before, between and after dives can increase the risk of taking a hit as the actual dive can. There's no definitive information to say why one diver gets bent and another doesn't. It could happen to any of us on any dive. There is a lot of research about what can possible increase our chances. Those are the things we all need to pay attention to and take seriously. Missing a day of diving, even on a vacation, isn't the worst thing. There's always another day. Even if we play it safe it's not a sure thing. DCI happens. Don't ignore the symptoms. Better to get checked out and told it's nothing then to let it go for days and possibly take a second more serious hit on a subsequent dive. ...but having been to Dr Piccolo a few times over the years, I'm sure you were thoroughly lectured on all aspects.

Are you done with the chamber then? Symptoms fully resolved? How long until you can get back in the water (or is it too soon to tell)?

BTW, there are chambers in Playa, and I know Dr Piccolo used to run one of them, not sure if he still does.

[DiverG]

Yes, I finished my last ride at 7 pm on Monday. 6 months before I dive again.

[DandyDon]

Yes, I finished my last ride at 7 pm on Monday. 6 months before I dive again.
Well, it's a PITA but that's good news that you can again that soon. :thumb:

Hope you can enjoy the rest of your trip in other ways, or get good claims if you cut it short to help pay for a January trip.

[MerMomDiver]

Glad to hear you are past the rides and OK. Kudos for not talking yourself out of the symptoms when they returned, and for following a good course of action for your health. All the best. 6 months will pass in a blink.

[Sue Sue]

Very good news DiverG to hear your latest report. Thank you for sharing your experience. Best Wishes for all your future diving endeavors. Sue

[bwetter]

I don't post often but read the ScubaBoard everyday and to DiverG I just want to say - sorry it happened to you and thank you for sharing and reminding us about the importance of recognizing the signs and not trying to be "macho" and ride it out on our own.
To others that have posted "helpful" items ..like remembering to stay fit, dehydrated, rested and getting DAN insurance - Thank you to you also

DiverG - get well and sorry to hear you'll be out of water for 6 months - I'm sure the time will fly

Bill

[kixy1]

DiverG - I second everything that bwetter said above. Thank you for being so open about your experience and taking the time to share.
I've made my son read this thread, who by way of normal teenage protocol, believes he is invincible. It's a wonderful sport, but comes with dangers. When we openly discuss these hits, it better prepares us to recognize both symptoms and how our topside actions and lifestyle can affect our diving.

Good for you for not waiting any longer in seeking help from Dr. P! I once took what we thought was a mild hit (skin bends), it ended up being something else, but as responsible and level headed as I like to think I am, I almost went diving the next day! Classic case of denial for all the obvious reasons, but pure idiocy. I'm very happy to hear you've been cleared and feeling better. Best news of the week! :)

Try to ignore all the hot air being blown around. The way you've handled this shows how seriously you take the sport. You've gone out of your way to teach us in hopes that it can avoid someone else getting hit. In my book, my friend, that is a mensch.

[JTemple]

Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad you are doing well. I did 3 rides in Indonesia a few years ago, not fun.


On my chamber ride that evening I was drinking lots of water and it still took me over 3 hours in the chamber before I had to urinate.

Actually, that could have been as much a symptom of your decompression sickness as it could have been dehydration. Did you get hungry during the ride, too? That happened to me. About an hour into it, I was starving, and before that, no appetite at all. Some one went out and got me KFC! So there I was, in a chamber, in Indonesia, eating the Colonel's finest. It was hard to believe any of it was happening!

[DiverG]

My travel/medical insurance that I purchased the night before my departure is going to pay all but $6 of my submitted claims. I'm thinking the $6 shortfall might be a mistake, but I'm not going to worry about that. :)

In total the trip insurance I paid around $60 is paying out about $9400. That would be $8100 in medical expenses, $700 in additional expense while in Cozumel and around $620 for my early return flight home. I would say that was an excellent $60 investment. I will not even had to use my DAN insurance either.

[DandyDon]

Nice. Who did you insure with? Medical is the primary reason I take trip insurance as my DAN doesn't cover me other than diving - and there is risk there too.

[DiverG]

Nice. Who did you insure with? Medical is the primary reason I take trip insurance as my DAN doesn't cover me other than diving - and there is risk there too.
Travelsafe.com

[Brules]

That's good news! Are you doing well otherwise?

[DiverG]

yes, I'm doing fine.

[azscubadude]

Nice. Who did you insure with? Medical is the primary reason I take trip insurance as my DAN doesn't cover me other than diving - and there is risk there too.

I have used and continue to use TravelGuard Ins. I exclusively use the "My Travel Guard" policy because you can pick the type and amount of coverage you want from the menu of options. You can make the different categories primary or secondary as well as the amounts.

You can play with the options and calculate, then recalculate the costs. I made a claim for a destroyed bag and they settled up right away, just make sure you document everything, with photos.

Here is a screen shot of the menu of items you can pick from.

My Travel Guard menu (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard.jpg)

[mediumone]

Travel Guard for us too. One of the reasons I choose them, is that they'll forward payment immediately for medical expenses, (under the policy that I chose), and worry about who pays for what afterward.

[cvchief]

Anyone ever try a claim on /FrontierMEDEX (http://www.frontiermedex.com/)

I bought from them last time to get JUST medical. I am willing to risk travel delays and lost bags, I just want a quick jet to shock trauma or JHH if I need it or paid medical there.

Good to hear all went well for you, G!

[azscubadude]

Anyone ever try a claim on /FrontierMEDEX (http://www.frontiermedex.com/)

I bought from them last time to get JUST medical. I am willing to risk travel delays and lost bags, I just want a quick jet to shock trauma or JHH if I need it or paid medical there.

Good to hear all went well for you, G!

I don't think you can find a company that allows you to customize (or pick from custom policies) more than Travel Guard does. They have the standard Platinum, Gold and Silver but then they offer over 9 other customized plans. Here are screen shots of their plans (including just MediVac)..

Also, you don't need to buy the Adventure Sports package, scuba diving is not classified as an adventure sport according to their specialists, but do the checking on your own, don't take my word for it).

Travel Guard Plans-1 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard2a.jpg)

Travel Guard Plans-2 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard3.jpg)

Travel Guard Plans-3 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard4.jpg)

[mediumone]

They may have changed since we last bought, but the policy that we got was called Sportsmans Travel. It was pretty basic coverage, and I added a life insurance rider in the amount of $50,000, which bumped up the premium from about $120.00 to $175.00.

Yes, I concur, Scuba Diving is covered without any special riders with Travel Guard. I don't remember if the policy had a 130 foot depth limit or not, and I'm not inclined to look it up. I'd rather have a tooth extracted than read an insurance policy unless I absolutely have to.

[azscubadude]

They may have changed since we last bought, but the policy that we got was called Sportsmans Travel. It was pretty basic coverage, and I added a life insurance rider in the amount of $50,000, which bumped up the premium from about $120.00 to $175.00.

Yes, I concur, Scuba Diving is covered without any special riders with Travel Guard. I don't remember if the policy had a 130 foot depth limit or not, and I'm not inclined to look it up. I'd rather have a tooth extracted than read an insurance policy unless I absolutely have to.

Looks like it is the Great Outdoors policy now, covers equipment, course closures, hunting and fishing permits, etc.

I would have thought scuba diving would be an Adventure Sport, but evidently not.

I read the whole policy looking for the coverage and it didn't state anything about scuba diving anywhere so I called the specialist and he said if it isn't listed it "is" covered. There isn't any depth limit that I know of because it isn't even listed. I'm sure they would differentiate Recreational diving vs. Commercial so the 140 foot mark would prevail if there was a dispute. So.. if there is a problem just dump your dive computer before they cart you away and they won't know how deep you went..:D

But, if you want to really be covered just check the box for Adventure Sports as the normal add on charge is only a couple dollars per person. You would think it would be very expensive but I don't think it is over $5.00 if I remember and could be less that that.

[cvchief]

I don't think you can find a company that allows you to customize (or pick from custom policies) more than Travel Guard does. They have the standard Platinum, Gold and Silver but then they offer over 9 other customized plans. Here are screen shots of their plans (including just MediVac)..

Also, you don't need to buy the Adventure Sports package, scuba diving is not classified as an adventure sport according to their specialists, but do the checking on your own, don't take my word for it).

Travel Guard Plans-1 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard2a.jpg)

Travel Guard Plans-2 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard3.jpg)

Travel Guard Plans-3 (http://www.amazingfotos.net/postings/misc/TGuard4.jpg)

I have used Travel Guard before, but I was looking to reduce it to mainly medical and evac. I am less concerned about baggage and travel delays and such.

[ddeborahdelamar]

Nice. Who did you insure with? Medical is the primary reason I take trip insurance as my DAN doesn't cover me other than diving - and there is risk there too.

DAN's Preferred-level policy covers treatment after non-dive accidents while traveling with $250 deductible. I'm pretty sure that only US & Canadian residents can purchase this coverage.

[DandyDon]

DAN's Preferred-level policy covers treatment after non-dive accidents while traveling with $250 deductible. I'm pretty sure that only US & Canadian residents can purchase this coverage.
Oh, yeah - that $10,000 Accident coverage is a perk, and DAN membership includes medical evacuation if needed - but I like having the $100,000 Medical coverage for Accidents or Illness provided by Travel Safe.

[azscubadude]

Oh, yeah - that $10,000 Accident coverage is a perk, and DAN membership includes medical evacuation if needed - but I like having the $100,000 Medical coverage for Accidents or Illness provided by Travel Safe.

The plan I use gives the $100,000.00 coverage, waives any pre-existing conditions and for just a couple dollars more increases the Medivac to $1,000,000.00 and takes you to the hospital of your choice, not just the first one they can get you to. This means you can get as close to home as needed but yet to a hospital that fits your medical needs. I think (but would have to re-read the coverage) this also includes multiple moves if needed.

You can also make the medical coverage primary or secondary (I believe most every policy makes the medical secondary as a standard practice). Since I am only covered by the VA in the borders of the USA I always move the coverage to Primary so I'm not left at the curb while they argue back and forth about who is going to cover what.

I also increase the baggage to the max of $2,500.00 and make it primary so I'm not having the same argument between them and my homeowners policy (and deductibles).

In my one case of a claim as soon as they see "primary" the conversation is over and they go into action on the claim.

Oh.. and I also carry the DAN Preferred plan. I'm sure there is overlap, but when you see the hundreds of thousands of dollars it can cost (if not more) for incidents and accidents I want to be covered to the max when I am traveling outside the borders of the US.

I have never been much for insurance but as I've gotten older and wiser I like to sleep nights knowing the few hundred I spend a year on insurance for traveling is going to get me home and in good hands.

[2nwdivers]

Greg, Been there....done that in 2008. I had been diving for 12 years and had nothing other than "green" profiles.... Turns out that a very great inernist at the medical clinic in Cozumel suspected I fit the profle of someone with a PFO (patent formale ovale). When I returned to the US, I had that confirmed by a Cardiologist with echogram with "under pressure bubble simualtion".

Nothing really that can be done, so my diving days are over. I was in good shape, thin and athletic and was totally amazed that this could happen to me. But at least I found there was a reason. And I am very thankful that things turned out as well as they did. A few residual issue from the chamber ride (broken capillaries, and visible veins on legs) but otherwise I am greatful for the great help that the medical facilities provided. Also thaks to DAN for lots of helpful information and support. I still go on dive trips with my husband and our friends, but have become a snorkler. Hope things turn out well for you. If your dives were all to profile - I'd suggest getting checked out by a doctor who is familar with dive medicine. Contact DAN if you need assistance.

[DandyDon]

Nothing really that can be done, so my diving days are over.
Welcome to SB.

Uh, some divers continue diving even with PFO confirmed, and some have them repaired. There may be more to your situation.