Would a Remote Exhaust Elbow help control buoyancy when using an octo-inflator in OOA

One of the more serious arguments against the use of octo-inflators such as SP Air 2 or Atomic SS1 is that in an OOA situation buoyancy control becomes difficult. I like the octo-inflator set up and wonder if it can be improved with a Remote Exhaust Elbow.
While it wouldn't be as comfortable as the “Trim Grip” on Aqualung's Airsource 3 appears to be, I imagine it might be still better than having to take the octo out of the mouth to deflate the BCD. ( Plus I haven't read too many good reviews of Airsource 3 anyway. Most popular models appear to be Scubapro and Atomic mentioned above).

My BC is Oxycheq Mach V and I am considering to replace the original elbow Wing Elbow : OxyCheq - DiveOps, Analyzers and Scuba Diving Equipment with DiveRites' Remote Exhaust Elbow BCD Parts and Components - Dive Gear Express part DR-BC2807.

What are your thoughts?

Think it is kind of a non issue, in an ooa situation you should be more worried about getting to the surface than buoyancy control. I can only see the issue of buoyancy at 15 ft being an issue

I'm probably being paranoid but I personally wouldn't use a remote exhaust elbow, something else to possibly fail, I have seen them break off at the elbow. Im not sure if you already have the integrated inflator Octo but if not I would recommend you just buy a standard Octo, this will solve the above issue with the important and added bonus, for most people, of being easier to use in an OOA. In an absolute worst case scenario you're at depth in an OOA emergency ascending trying to control buoyancy and then the elbow snaps off...oops. Having said that I'm sure there are many people do use a remote exhaust and integreatd Oco without issue, it's just not for me. Good luck.

I have an air 2 on all my Bc's and BP/W's I like them. I would not add the elbow thing.. more money, and more failure points. Plus, I'm not sure you can yank on it to dump air and still breath from the AIR 2 anyway...so you would be removing it from your mouth anyway, I think.. Many Bc's (like SP) have an alternate, independent pull dump that I assume is intended to be used when using the Air 2.

I practice with the air 2 ascents sometimes and although it is not so comfortable, I have no problem venting air.. I think I just remove from my mouth and vent as necessary. It would be harder with my hands full in an amergency...

I think you should practice ascending with the air 2 and venting, before spending more money on that elbow.

Think it is kind of a non issue, in an ​

ooa

situation you should be more worried about getting to the surface than buoyancy control. I can only see the issue of buoyancy at 15 ft being an issue​

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Oh, my goodness, no! The last thing you want to do is compound an out of air emergency with a DCS problem, because you didn't control your ascent rate. Buoyancy control is, if anything, MORE important in an emergency, because stressed breathing often sends it out of whack. You can survive running out of gas, if your buddy donates and you execute a competent ascent; you may not survive a poorly executed ascent, especially if it results in separation of the divers, or embolization.

If you have a long enough primary hose that the two of you can ascent horizontally, you can use the butt dump on your wing for buoyancy control, and it will suffice. If you are ascending vertically, you will have to be willing to take the regulator out of your mouth long enough to vent (unless you are using a dry suit and have been using the suit for buoyancy, in which case, in a vertical ascent, your major problem is swimming hard enough to continue moving upward). It CAN be done, but honestly, this is one of the reasons I prefer a bungied backup regulator.

Adding a piece of kit to try to resolve an issue that removing a different piece of kit brings? Is this an equipment solution to an equipment problem?

I fail to see the attraction of the air-2's. More expensive to service, harder to find a service center in remote locations, more likely to cause confusion in an OOA, having to learn a set of different techniques to do your ascent in an OOA.

This thread absolutely wasn't meant to start a discussion about octo-inflators versus conventional configuration. While I did not explicitly ask to abstain from discussing the pro and contra, the title as well as the very first sentence in this thread clearly state what this thread is meant to be about: buoyancy control.
I have extensively researched the Great Octo-inflator Controversy, found and read tons of opinions on this subject on this as well as several other forums and I have no interest in fanning the flames.
In addition to the above, while I am sure that you mean well, bear in mind that I just laid out $300 for 2x new SP Air 2, cannot go back and the doubts you are planting in my mind can achieve only one thing: regret. So please just let me enjoy my new octos!

@buddhasummer, From what we know, the weakest link/failure point of the Mach V is the OPV base and it is the same for the plain and the remote exhaust elbows. But I see your point.

dumpsterDiver:

I'm not sure you can yank on it to dump air and still breath from the AIR 2 anyway...so you would be removing it from your mouth anyway, I think..

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This is exactly the question I am asking myself. Too bad something like “Trim Grip” from the Aqualung's Airsource 3 does not exist as a separate piece of gear.

TSandM:

If you have a long enough primary hose that the two of you can ascent horizontally, you can use the butt dump on your wing for buoyancy control, and it will suffice. If you are ascending vertically, you will have to be willing to take the regulator out of your mouth long enough to vent (unless you are using a dry suit and have been using the suit for buoyancy, in which case, in a vertical ascent, your major problem is swimming hard enough to continue moving upward). It CAN be done, but honestly, this is one of the reasons I prefer a bungied backup regulator.

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In your opinion would a 41" (104cm)-long primary hose be long enough? (Sherwood Maximus regs are 41"-long. I have two of these and I am just about now trying to decide whether I keep or replace them.) And thank you for addressing the "non-issue"! I couldn't have done it better myself.

@OzGriffo The answers to both of your questions are firm "Yes and yes." I wonder though why an antipodean felt that he needed to ask that.

The way I see it, if you're trained and comfortable enough to be able to take the thing out of your mouth to properly vent, you probably won't be using an Air2. If you are, then that's probably the right way to do it.

Putting yourself in that situation in the first place is stupid though. It's so much easier to manage your BC when your inflator isn't in your mouth.

I take issue with any gear choices that necessitate that you increase your task loading when faced with an OOA ascent. "Oh my partner's OOA? OK, donate my reg.... and now on top of that my inflator is in my mouth the rest of the dive, so I have to deal with that too." Meh. No thanks.

The proper equipment response is to put a backup reg around your neck, not to add some extra pull dump somewhere.

This is why Bp/W and Air-integrated inflators shouldn't be paried. They are less ideal in OOA orientatio positions when ascending, compared to stock equipped BC's.

Elbow exhausts are hard to activate when using your Air 2. You'll have to pull with both hands, leaving your OOA diver free floating and you unable to render any hands to assist if necessary.
It's not easy to use in this regard. Forget failure points, maintenance, and likely-hood of failing for a minute; It's just not something I would suggest buying to solve your issue. It will add issues of its own.

Since I don't like advising you take out your only air source to deflate, You have 3 choices:
- Look up, exhale, and depress the deflate button halfway or before the final click in the button. This will allow you to Venturi your air out of your BC, it's a very slow deflate though. And you have to be very very vertical in the water column, which isn't always easy if a short hose is causing an OOA diver to cling to you.
When you want to breath, you have to stop your deflate or you'll breath nothing but BC air.

- Add a 40in hose w/ angle adapter or longer hose to facilitate horizontal ascents during OOA shares. Now you're able to utilize your butt dump and the above method.
The downside to this is you have to practice a new OOA donation method.
Angle adapters and Swivels are only necessary with hoses between 40in and below 5ft. Any shorter and they can't be routed under your arm.

- Reconfigure your setup with an octo or backup (keep or discard air 2, your choice).

Either way, you have to be vertical or slightly tipped down horizontal to vent effectively.
With stock BC's you can rely on your shoulder dump + butt dump and can pretty much dump in any position without using the inflator.

For further reading:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...ng-your-line-altair-inflator-note-divers.html

Obviously this is a hot button topic.

1) If you have a balanced rig you can swim up, then a shoulder dump failure is a non-issue. Unless of course you like planning for simultaneous OOAs and wing failures... And while it is pretty much verboten in the tech/cave community, shoulder dumps are pretty common and seldom fail. When they do it's due to getting banged around, having a tank dropped on it, being over tightened or is due to a semi-panicky student dive practically pulling it out of the BC in an over zealous effort to dump gas. In short, the failures are normally due to abuse and neglect and if you have your own BC and properly maintain it the risk is minimal. And if your single tank rig is properly balanced , you can still swim it up - something that is often not the case in technical diving and thus the avoidance of them in technical diving circles.

2) As noted above, in most cases you can ascend horizontally and dump using the rear dump so an inflator elbow dump is not needed. However while it is easy for a technical diver but I am not sure many recreational divers practice that, and if you are going to go with a regular elbow, you need to practice dumping gas through the corrugated hose while using an Air 2.

3) In that regard, there is no reason to remove an Air 2 from your mouth to dump gas on ascent - just depress the dump valve with it in your mouth and the gas will exit normally. Alternatively, if you have a dump on the inflator elbow, just pressing out slightly on the hose with the Air 2 in your mouth will dump gas very controllably and easily.

Consequently, I'll take the position that you don't need an inflator elbow dump, but it is not a threat either and can make the process of dumping gas a little easier.

Also, Scubapro normally has a right shoulder dump valve on their BCs. That is to allow simultaneous dumping with a pull cord on the BC, while breathing off an Air 2. One could argue that the right shoulder dump is another failure point high in the bladder or wing, but 30 years of successful operational use by tens of thousands of divers suggests it's really a total non-issue.

It's not rocket science, but the arguments against tend to fall out on dogmatic lines rather than based on actual experience and objective reasoning of what makes sense in a particular configuration as a whole.