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Janie1229
September 4th, 2012, 10:11 AM
I'm looking at getting a new BCD. My current one is a SeaQuest Diva QD, and while I have loved this BC, I purchased it in 1999 and it is finally time to replace it.

I've heard great things about back inflate BC's, and my LDS has a Halycon that looks very sturdy and minimalist, which I like. It also looks like a great travel BC, as you can take the backplate out, and put it in your carry-on. The husband & wife owners of the dive shop rave about it. My husband and I are going to try it at the local pool this fall, but just curious what everyone out there thinks about the Halycon.

Pros? Cons?

Thanks!

ajduplessis
September 4th, 2012, 12:37 PM
Great equipment, only downside I can think of its a bit expensive. The next few post are most likely going to point you to Tobin so I will not bother. I have multiple Halcyon products and love all of them, would not have it any other way. I dont mind paying a premium for great equipment.

TSandM
September 4th, 2012, 12:40 PM
It's good gear, at just about the highest price point in the market. You won't be unhappy with it, but you can get something you'll like for significantly less.

JamesK
September 4th, 2012, 12:41 PM
I have had both my halcyon wings for ten years now. Excellent gear IMO. I would not hesitate to buy more. The price is the only thing that is a downside.

chrpai
September 4th, 2012, 12:51 PM
Totally agree. If you are the kind of person who has money to burn, (some call it the `Blue H` tax) then you won't go wrong buying it. I'm sure your LDS could show you other things similiarly priced but of far less value or usefullness.

`H` is good quality gear that is well thought out but priced with a little too much pride for my taste. If you are looking for similar gear at a lower price point, there are many others to consider.

evad
September 4th, 2012, 01:15 PM
`H` is good quality gear that is well thought out but priced with a little too much pride for my taste. If you are looking for similar gear at a lower price point, there are many others to consider.



All from China, if you like that sort of thing.

chrpai
September 4th, 2012, 01:49 PM
All from China, if you like that sort of thing.

Let me guess... a pathetic way of thinking?

cool_hardware52
September 4th, 2012, 01:58 PM
All from China, if you like that sort of thing.

Not True. Virtually all DSS gear is made in Pasadena California using domestic materials if possible. Our urethane, ballistic nylon, webbing, bungee cord are all from domestic mills.

We produce our own back plates, and we injection mold all of our own parts with the exception of the power inflator and corrugated hose.

Tobin

evad
September 4th, 2012, 02:09 PM
Not True. Virtually all DSS gear is made in Pasadena California using domestic materials if possible. Our urethane, ballistic nylon, webbing, bungee cord are all from domestic mills.

We produce our own back plates, and we injection mold all of our own parts with the exception of the power inflator and corrugated hose.

Tobin


Sorry, I forgot about you. My bad. My pathetic bad.

eelnoraa
September 4th, 2012, 02:22 PM
H is expansive, but quality is very top notch too. It is for people who are willing to spend more to get the final details. Just like everything else, return is deminished. Think about automobile industry, some will be happy with Honda, some are willing to spend more for BMW/MB/Audi, and some will go to more extreme to Bugatti. After all, it is all one's personal preference and finanacial situation.

And just for the sake of argument, nothing wrong with stuff that made in china. They can in fact produce very high quality stuff for lower cost. And also try to live a while without using anything made in China, you will realize their value.

evad
September 4th, 2012, 02:26 PM
And also try to live a while without using anything made in China, you will realize their value.

Slavery good.

eelnoraa
September 4th, 2012, 02:39 PM
so are you saying you have used NO product that is made in china? I doubt that. If you do, then you are taking of advantage of the "slavery" too, until the day you absolutely stop using anything made in China, you should NOT complain.

---------- Post Merged at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:36 AM ----------

sorry for the hijact.

To OP, if you can afford a Halcyon BC, it is a very high quality product that you won't be unhappy. But like other said, you can get other bp/w setup that function just as well for less

evad
September 4th, 2012, 02:40 PM
so are you saying you have used NO product that is made in china? I doubt that. If you do, then you are taking of advantage of the "slavery" too, until the day you absolutely stop using anything made in China, you should NOT complain.

I'm not complaining. Slavery good.

eelnoraa
September 4th, 2012, 02:46 PM
I'm not complaining. Slavery good.

then don't use those "slavery good"

Divin'Hoosier
September 4th, 2012, 02:57 PM
I've seen Halcyon plates and wings side-by-side with DSS. Don't think for a second that going with DSS is somehow going with a lesser quality product. That's just not the case.

ajduplessis
September 5th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Yes it is :stirpot:

blc
September 6th, 2012, 06:21 AM
Am I correct in DSS wings attach with rubber gromlets to the backplate? If so is there any danger of these being unexpectantly torn loose during the dive or in heavy surf?

Divin'Hoosier
September 6th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Am I correct in DSS wings attach with rubber gromlets to the backplate? If so is there any danger of these being unexpectantly torn loose during the dive or in heavy surf?

I assume you're talking about their singles wings and DSS plate. You are incorrect. The wing is sandwiched between the plate and the tank. It's absolutely impossible for the wing to go anyplace once it's mounted to the tank. The rubber grommets simply help to keep the wing attached to the plate WHEN IT'S NOT ON A TANK. They are nice but completely irrelevant to the functioning of the wing when mounted between a tank and plate.

---------- Post Merged at 08:10 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:04 AM ----------


Yes it is :stirpot:

Are you referring to my post about there being no quality differences between DSS and Halcyon? You're welcome to your opinion, but you're also wrong. But that's just my opinion. I've seen them both side by side on many occasions. Halcyon is good stuff, and DSS is just as good. Period.

Back to the OP ... If your shop carries Halcyon and you can afford it, go for it. You won't be disappointed. Great products and great services. Some of us are just trying to let you know that you will pay a premium. There's stuff out there just as good (my opinion again) that's a bit cheaper.

Pullmyfinger
September 6th, 2012, 08:34 AM
I agree,

I own both brands, and they are equal quality. Tobin should charge more than he does.
I've owned other brands, but have now pared it down to Halcyon and DSS.

There are a lot of "Me too" brands out there....I'll stick with these two companies, and spend my money with them.

-Mitch

PfcAJ
September 6th, 2012, 11:11 AM
I've seen Halcyon plates and wings side-by-side with DSS. Don't think for a second that going with DSS is somehow going with a lesser quality product. That's just not the case.

The 'corrugated hose' on the DSS leaves me wishing for a proper hose like the Halcyon wings have. Those plasticy ones split at the seams.

Divin'Hoosier
September 6th, 2012, 11:17 AM
The 'corrugated hose' on the DSS leaves me wishing for a proper hose like the Halcyon wings have. Those plasticy ones split at the seams.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "proper hose" and "plasticy ones". I have a DSS wing that is 6 years old and I've not had any issues with the hose. I also have a Hollis wing and 2 Dive Rite wings and haven't had an issue with the corrugated hoses on any of them.

With that said, I don't want to hijack the thread and make it about DSS. Halcyon is good stuff. If you're comfortable with the price your LDS is charging, you can't go wrong with it.

TSandM
September 6th, 2012, 12:21 PM
Me, I actually prefer the lighter, smaller corrugated hoses -- and since my singles wing is about ten years old and has over 1000 dives on it, I don't think they're a big issue.

cool_hardware52
September 6th, 2012, 01:26 PM
The 'corrugated hose' on the DSS leaves me wishing for a proper hose like the Halcyon wings have. Those plasticy ones split at the seams.

The injection molded hoses DSS uses have no seams. Like all injection molded goods they do have parting lines, but that is not a seam or weak point.

The parting line is where the two halves of the mold meet.

Without a seam it would be odd for these hoses to fail at the parting line in the mold. I've never seen one or had any reports of hoses splitting down the parting line.

All Hoses can tear. This usually occurs near the fittings when the hoses are pulled on too hard or too often, but these tears are not associated with parting lines or the non existent seams.

Others use dip molded hoses like these Industrial Hoses | Crush Proof Industrial Hoses - Crushproof Tubing (http://www.crushproof.com/oem-hoses/breathing-hoses-and-tubes/) These hoses have some advantages and some disadvantages. Dip molded hoses are widely used for rebreather breathing loops, and failures are far from unknown.

I prefer the injection molded hoses because they are smaller, and feature a smooth bore. Unlike the dip molded hoses which are convoluted internally, a smooth bore hose is easier to evacuate water out of.

These molded hoses are produced using modern TPE or Theromoplastic Elastomers. The typical TPE contains a high percentage of natural Rubber. Very long life with very good resistance to Ozone and UV. We use TPE's to produce the DSS instrument mounts.

It's not a question of cost. Dip molded vs injection molded hoses cost about the same.

Tobin

eelnoraa
September 6th, 2012, 01:42 PM
I just did a quick price check between DSS and H for a compatible BC setup.

DSS $460: SS Standard size SS plate, hogarthian harness, 40lb wing, cambands with wedge
H Eclipse $769: SS standard size SS plate, hogarthian harness, 40lb wing, STA, cambands, storage pack, ACB weight pocket.

The difference seems big here, $369, 67% more, but you also get storage pack ($72) and ACB ($135) with H. If you them away, the H is $562. So the real difference is $100, 25% more. Still a lot, but not as ridiculous as the first numbers show.

PfcAJ
September 6th, 2012, 02:18 PM
I've seen those hoses (or at least ones that look mighty similar) crack. They're not really corrugated, either. The inside is smooth with little ribs on the outside. All the ones I've seen, anyway. Maybe I'm mistaken, that happens from time to time. I like my corrugated hose to be able to stretch a bit.

Maybe the cracking is a Florida thing where its a bajillion degrees every day.

kathydee
September 6th, 2012, 02:45 PM
I have several wings/backplates but my Halcyon is by far my favorite.

Halcyon does cost a bit more, but the gains are well worth the extra expense, IMO.

cool_hardware52
September 6th, 2012, 02:54 PM
I've seen those hoses (or at least ones that look mighty similar) crack. They're not really corrugated, either. The inside is smooth with little ribs on the outside. All the ones I've seen, anyway. Maybe I'm mistaken, that happens from time to time. I like my corrugated hose to be able to stretch a bit.

Maybe the cracking is a Florida thing where its a bajillion degrees every day.

I'd love to see one.

The molding temps for TPE's is ~400F so I doubt Florida temps are a problem.

TPE's are routinely used in auto's in under the hood applications, air induction systems and CV joint covers are almost always TPE's If they survive under the hood temps scuba applications are a cake walk.

Tobin

ams511
September 7th, 2012, 02:28 PM
I just did a quick price check between DSS and H for a compatible BC setup.

DSS $460: SS Standard size SS plate, hogarthian harness, 40lb wing, cambands with wedge
H Eclipse $769: SS standard size SS plate, hogarthian harness, 40lb wing, STA, cambands, storage pack, ACB weight pocket.

The difference seems big here, $369, 67% more, but you also get storage pack ($72) and ACB ($135) with H. If you them away, the H is $562. So the real difference is $100, 25% more. Still a lot, but not as ridiculous as the first numbers show.

You also get a STA with Halcyon which is not needed with the DSS wing.

---------- Post Merged at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:05 AM ----------


Am I correct in DSS wings attach with rubber gromlets to the backplate? If so is there any danger of these being unexpectantly torn loose during the dive or in heavy surf?

No, the cam straps for the tank run through the backplate and the wing. There is no danger of losing the wing. You only need to use screws when using a STA other than that they only serve to align the wing to the plate.

---------- Post Merged at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:05 AM ----------


I've heard great things about back inflate BC's, and my LDS has a Halycon that looks very sturdy and minimalist, which I like. It also looks like a great travel BC, as you can take the backplate out, and put it in your carry-on.

Thanks!

As mentioned by other posters the main drawback is the cost. I do not think you will hear anyone complain about anything else with Halcyon. As far as traveling goes the Halcyon wing is quite flexible and can be rolled up. As far as assembly and disassembly goes it is a PITA. You have 6 screws to undo to remove the pad then another two wing nuts to remove the STA. This will separate the wing from the plate and STA. The STA is metal, the cam straps are metal and the plate is metal, So it is heavy. In contrast the DSS is much easier to break down and is lighter. BTW, all BP/Ws can be broken down not just Halcyon.

jimmytaroh
September 7th, 2012, 06:59 PM
I think Kathydee has it correct below. The fact that you can purchase it at your LDS and support a local shop, who will take care of you if you ever have a problem, should be considered as well.

You do pay a little more but they pay extreme attention to detail in the design and manufacture of their gear, enough to warrant a little extra in my mind. And that little extra is a drop in the scuba bucket when you think of the other money that you will spend on gear, trips, dives and post-dive beers. :)


I have several wings/backplates but my Halcyon is by far my favorite.

Halcyon does cost a bit more, but the gains are well worth the extra expense, IMO.

rongoodman
September 7th, 2012, 07:27 PM
I've used Halycon since I started out, both for singles and doubles rigs, and have nothing but good things to say about them. OTOH, you might not be able to get away with putting the BP in your carry-on--some TSA person might think you're going to use it as a a weapon!

ams511
September 7th, 2012, 08:12 PM
I think Kathydee has it correct below. The fact that you can purchase it at your LDS and support a local shop, who will take care of you if you ever have a problem, should be considered as well.



Regardless of what your LDS tells you, online shops do take care of their clients also. Also DSS has excellent customer service, if there is a problem send it back and they will fix it.

evad
September 8th, 2012, 06:32 AM
H is expansive, but quality is very top notch too. .


As opposed to regular "top notch?"

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