Cave Course Skills...

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toodles

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Hi there.

I am going to be going down to Mexico in spring to complete
my Apprentice/Full Cave certifications.
I was wondering if you can give me an idea of some of the skills that are going to be required.
The courses are through NSS.

Just a brief idea such as skills, depths(in cave), and drills?

Also, in your opinion did you find it demanding?

Thanks very much.

t
 
toodles:
Hi there.

I am going to be going down to Mexico in spring to complete
my Apprentice/Full Cave certifications.
I was wondering if you can give me an idea of some of the skills that are going to be required.
The courses are through NSS.

Just a brief idea such as skills, depths(in cave), and drills?

Also, in your opinion did you find it demanding?

Thanks very much.

t

My training was NACD in Florida and I'll provide a quick overview of some of the skills.

Practice and maintain good bouyancy control, kick techniques and anti-silting technique.

Handling a line (primary, jump/gap and safety) to include tie offs, wraps, placements, etc.

Buddy awareness skills.

Valve drills.

Lost buddy and lost line searches.

OOA sharing.

Lights out drills.

Touch contact drills.

Lights out air sharing in touch contact through minor restrictions.

Proper dive planning, to include turn pressure, turn times, estimated distance, deco planning, etc.

And that's just the first day!

Just kidding! I am sure there are few other things that my tired brain forgot to mention as well.

I found the course to be very challenging. Realistically, I did not go into the course adequately prepared.

Since then I have had two good friends (both are former instructors of mine) take a cavern course, with one going on to finish his full cave course. They both found it to be challenging as well.

But would a class that wasnt challenging really be worth taking?

I'm sure you'll love it, and I'm envious of you getting to dive in Mexico. Maybe next year for me...

Good luck!
 
hmm

valve drills
fin kicking
air management
line management
lost line drills
lost line / no light
ooa
ooa no light ( was that fun or what )
no mask drills
equipment failure drills


We had a "rule" way in to cave was our time - we could enjoy the dive - way out the instructors got to mess with us - and they were like freakin stealth bombers - they would *CRAWL* across the ceiling - next thing - something would be happening

Was it demanding - it kicked my butt 10 different ways from sunday - I am an active instructor - I have 100`s of dives in all kinds of environments - I felt a newbie on the first pool night

How long are you allowing for the apprentice and full cave ?
 
Hi Gents:

I too am planning to do full cave next year in Mexico.

I had inquired, while I was down there a month ago on the particulars of the course.
From what I understand, they'll take you from basically OW to full cave cert in 6 days, 18 dives.

Hmmm. I'm OK with that, but my very first question was,..."How can a person who's never ran line, wore doubles, done gas management etc etc get through all that PLUS learn the cave "stuff" in 6 days?"

I think it would be a very tough 6 days for that person. They say it can be done. I guess having the "Cert" is a license to continue to learn on your own. So the thinking goes.

I'm glad, if I infact do get to go, that I'll only have to worry about the "additional" worries of Cave, without adding the "I'm new to everything here" scenario.
 
:doctor: The skills for the various cave training agencies (NSS-CDS, NACD, TDI) are very similar. For divers who have never worn a set of doubles or ran lines they will get plenty of practice in the open water portion before heading into the overhead. For many this has been the start and end of that session of cave class learning. The number of dives required for certification are listed as a minimum required, students have found on many occasions that more dives were required before they received their card. Recommendation: Buy yourself a reel and start working it out and back, eyes open and closed, Set your equipment up, while resting on the back tailgate of a truck or picnic table start working your valves, locating you lights, again do the same with your eyes closed. You should expect that your equipment will be looked at for configuration. If you have a pool available work the equipment in the pool. Tie your reel to a milk crate and practice working it. Good luck
 
I am quite comfortable with a reel, finger spool and doubles. But I dive with all of them all the time in open water, and in wrecks, without "formal" certification.

There are basic rules to follow for relatively safe cave diving, as with any other overhead environment. Violate them and you may not get away with it, even for "small" penetrations.

For example, at Vortex you can get 300' back under an overhead before you hit the "grate", and you do not "need" a cave card to get that far back - although they warn you against doing it in the shop. There is a reaper sign before you enter that cave, and the cave itself is LIT (the first time I've seen THAT!) but nonetheless, if you venture in there with a single tank, or ignore thirds, and and no lights...... (what if the lighting inside fails?) I was back there yesterday, and its quite nice in there, with a fair bit of aquatic life - particularly the eels, which I thought were real cool.

300' is quite a long way. You will NOT make it out if you have an OOA at the grate and no means of securing something to breathe. Not a snowball's chance in hades.

If you're going to take a cave class I would strongly recommend spending however much time you need in doubles, with a can light, and with a reel to become completely comfortable with all of the above BEFORE the class. You also need to be able to swim horizontally using other than a flutter kick and have your buoyancy down pat - if you cannot hover in a 3-5' vertical space without striking either the bottom or the overhead, without kicking, you are very likely to make any cave into an instant-zero-vis situation and that is both very dangerous and will cause you (reliably) to fail the class - at least if your instructor is worth anything at all. Finally, for most caves you absolutely will want a drysuit. In part for the exposure issues, in part because they don't shift buoyancy like a wetsuit does, and for fine control of your position vertically in the water I think they're easier to manage. Plus, even here in Florida, where "the usual" is mid-60s water temperatures all year (Vortex was 66 yesterday), you will get quite chilled if you're calm, not working hard, and just hanging checking things out unless you wear a HEAVY wetsuit. I had my dry on yesterday and was toasty warm the entire time - that makes for a much more comfortable dive.

I am right now considering taking cavern/intro as a 3-day (NACD cert), but I wouldn't even THINK about it if I wasn't already comfortable in doubles, wasn't already doing decompression diving, and wasn't already doing wreck penetrations. Part of what has held me back up until now has been that most agencies/instructors will NOT allow you to take cavern/intro in doubles. I won't do either in singles. I believe I have finally found a solution to this problem, so early next year I'm likely to do the class.....

Apprentice/Full will follow in due course if I decide to go this route...
 
It is possible - but I managed to get to cave 1 in 6 days - I was comfortable with that.

I have never really used doubles before but besides from that I am an active o/w instructor and dive regularly.

I would not say that o/w to full cave in 6 days good idea - better to aim for acave 1 or apprentice and get a day or 2 practise - This is not a certification process you want to rush
 
Hi Genesis,

You mention you've found a 'solution' to the issue of * not * being allowed to do cavern/intro to cave in doubles....can you share your 'solution' with us?

In Sept 03 I signed up for a week in Akumal for full cave, but being a 'new' diver (certified 2 yrs ago) I only made it through cavern.......I knew it would be a 'reach' for me, and it was, ( (for example, I'd only done about 10 dives in doubles proir to the class) but it was a neat experience and I'm considering another week in Akumal Sept 2004 to at least try to make it through "Intro".

Upon my return I discussed the issue of 'singles only' with 2 different instructors at 2 different shops and generated 2 'solutions':

Solution #1-- if anyone asks, the official line is I'm a full cave student, going as far through the course as I can......nobody has to know I'm only shooting for an "Intro" cert.......and, honestly, who knows, if things are going well, and i make it through "Intro", I could keep going and try for full Cave, since I'll be there with full Cave certified divers and possibly full Cave students for a full week anyway.

Solution#2 -- taking Cavern/Intro in doubles is *legal* , however, no certification can be issued, unless one proceeds to (and completes) full Cave as well, all within a 1 year time span. Instructors do have some leeway to extend the 1 year limit, it's at the instructor's disgression.

I'm very nervous being in an overhead environment of any sort without full Cave gear, so I doubt I'll take 'Intro' without employing one of these 2 'solutions'.

Genesis, I'm curious....what's your 'solution'?


Thanks,

Karl
 
My solution was to find an instructor/agency pair that doesn't have this problem.

It took some searching, since GUE is not an agency I will work with for various political reasons (notably that I disagree vehemently with the way they present certain diving-related issues.)
 
Hi Genesis,

....sounds like you found the same 'solution' as I did......luckily, not all cave instructors blindly follow stupid agency dictates...but I guess to be a cave diver/instructor you already have to be someone with something of an independent streak.

One shop will let me do the "Intro" in doubles, and give me more than the 1 year to finish full Cave, but will only issue a 'temp' cert until full Cave is completed......another shop will let me take "Intro" in doubles and issue a 'real' certification without having to complete full Cave......the official line will be I'm a full Cave student, with every intent of going all-the-way (which is actually the truth if things are going well that week) but if I only make it through 'Intro'.... oops, oh well, too late to change the tanks I happened to be using when I 'dropped' out.

Karl
 
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