Cuda Fury vs. Genesis 1200

Very new to scooters, but of those I've researched so far these two models stood out. Anyone have experiences with these models (or even just the companies themselves) they can share? Customer service is something I'm always especially interested in.

It seems like the Cudas come from the more established builder and use a more proven design, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why a new Fury package is $7k plus another $400 for an "upgraded" (i.e., properly designed in the first place) prop, when a $6850 Genesis 1200 is listed as having significantly greater thrust, range, and run times than the Fury (maybe the upgraded Fury prop would change the performance numbers a lot?).

The Genesis scooters have a lot of interesting new design features that seem appealing, like the magnetic prop coupling and sealed charging. Anyone have experience as to whether these are real advantages (the prop coupling seems like it would be a major improvement to me) or sales gimmicks? The ability to switch to a Genesis 600 nose and airline-legal batteries for travel would be neat, too.

The peak thrust and range/runtime at max thrust are similar between the two, but that is where the similarities end. You will never run either scooter at full speed for an entire battery charge anyway, so the range/runtime at max thrust data points are fairly useless. Power consumption at cruise and battery capacity are the best comparisons for what kind of ranges to expect during normal diving. Some scooter have big batteries but they also use twice as much power to go the same speed, so in the end, they'll both go the same distance, but one will be bigger and heavier due to the extra battery. In the Tahoe Benchmark results, look at the "Cruise W" column. That's the Watts (power) required for the scooter to go 150 fpm. The lower the Watts, the more efficient the scooter is and the longer it will run for a given battery capacity (Wh).

As for the magnetic prop coupling, that is a maintenance and reliability feature. There is no annual shaft seal change with the Genesis. You should expect to do that with any other scooter. Additionally, shaft seals have been know to fail, some times catastrophically, resulting in damage to the electronics at a minimum and sometimes having to abandon the scooter altogether due to the loss of buoyancy. One customer had to cut loose a ~$7000 scooter during deco when the shaft seal failed at 450ft. It is somewhere off the coast of San Diego.

The external recharge is both a convenience and preventative feature. First off, it is a lot easier just plug it in than having to open the scooter, remove the battery from the body and then plug it in. Secondly, opening the scooter wears on the seals and risks dirt and debris getting on the o-ring(s). It also risks getting water inside either from it dropping off the tail cone or in humid environments, from condensation in the scooter. I have seen humidity kill a motor controller after a week of diving due to opening it up to recharge.

If you ask the Genesis owners out there, almost all will say their favorite feature is the one handed, full variable speed control. No fiddling with having to up click and down click through a few preset speeds or use a second hand to adjust the speed. It goes the speed you want it to, when you pull the trigger. Also related to the speed control is that not only will the Genesis go fast, but it will also go very slow when you want it to and any speed in between. Some scooter don't let you go as slow as you would like, so you then have to pulse the trigger on and off and 9 out of 10 crotches just don't like that.

The same tail section is used on both Genesis scooters, so changing to the the travel friendly 600 is easy.


Cheers,
Jon

Jon, thank you for the info on your scooters. Don't suppose you have any of the first production run left by now?

Dr. Lecter:

Jon, thank you for the info on your scooters. Don't suppose you have any of the first production run left by now?

Click to expand...

The first run is long gone and there is a waiting list for the second run, which will begin shipping next month. Any new orders will likely ship in January.


Cheers,
Jon

To follow up, I purchased a Genesis 600 from Jon almost one year after starting this thread and it arrived in Honolulu earlier this week. Initial impressions after getting it unboxed, charged, and trimmed are very favorable. I'll post a full review once I've had a chance to take it out wreck-hunting this weekend.

FYI, Amigo's Genesis demo scooter is once again not working.

However, my Minnus 1.5 just seems to work over and over and over just like the engergizer bunny.

I'm supposed to consider a demo unit vs your personal ride an apples to apples reliability comparison? You're so funny.

In the meantime, my 600 is smaller and lighter than your minnus and offers greater thrust, top speed, and cruise range than a magnus...and I needn't open my unit to charge, nor give a about line in my prop. Or my prop seals for that matter

The locking strip vs. latches may be my favorite part, though... it's so ing simple and it works so much better. Now I want my Salvo can light to use it.


Sent from my Shearwater Petrel using Tapatalk

Superlyte27:

FYI, Amigo's Genesis demo scooter is once again not working.

Click to expand...

Do you mean the prototype scooter at Amigos that was used at the Tahoe benchmark, that was flooded when someone who loosened the recharge connector and also had the propeller assembly tossed across the concrete at one demo event, has been disassembled and reassembled over a thousand times at trade shows and demo events across the country and already logged more dives in two years than your scooter will ever see? Yes, that scooter is on its way back to be upgraded to current production firmware, since the bug was just identified.

...and Dr. L, your Genesis 600 is over 4 pounds lighter than his 1.5 with more range, since it does not lose motor efficiency through a geared speed reducer.


Happy Holidays,
Jon

Congrats on the new Scooter. I am picking my 1200 up in a couple of weeks and the closer I get, the more excited I am about getting it.

Dr. Lecter:

Very new to scooters, but of those I've researched so far these two models stood out. Anyone have experiences with these models (or even just the companies themselves) they can share? Customer service is something I'm always especially interested in.

It seems like the Cudas come from the more established builder and use a more proven design, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why a new Fury package is $7k plus another $400 for an "upgraded" (i.e., properly designed in the first place) prop, when a $6850 Genesis 1200 is listed as having significantly greater thrust, range, and run times than the Fury (maybe the upgraded Fury prop would change the performance numbers a lot?).

The Genesis scooters have a lot of interesting new design features that seem appealing, like the magnetic prop coupling and sealed charging. Anyone have experience as to whether these are real advantages (the prop coupling seems like it would be a major improvement to me) or sales gimmicks? The ability to switch to a Genesis 600 nose and airline-legal batteries for travel would be neat, too.

Click to expand...

The Fury is a LiIon battery (very expensive to begin with) The upgraded prop is a metal, fixed blade (not pitch adjustment). I prefer the pitch adjustment for fine tuning, but that's what I like. I have a Cuda 650, a great NiMH scooter, not too heavy (about 70 lbs), but not quite as manouverable as my Hollis H-160 was. It took me a full day, but I have the Cuda perfectly weighted & balanced & love it! It has great speed.... though I rarely go above speed 4 out of 8. The upper speeds are just too uncomfortable for me, pulling on a crotch strap. I put my Cuda through hell in the quarry & the caves & never had a bit of trouble. I have yet to run the battery down in a busy day of diving. The 650 & 450 Cudas can be outfitted with a shorter body for airline. I like the point of only 2 penetration points (prop shaft & the removable tail section to pull the battery out for charging. If the Genesis battery is LiIon, then I could understand why you would want it sealed, but if it is, then it would not be considered airline safe (my LiIon batteries for my canister lights are barely tolerable).