'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

DevonDiver · Feb 7, 2013

From this thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/sc...eases-sidemount-bcd-ocean-diving-w-video.html

There seems to be a trend now for companies marketing 'open water only' BCDs. Look to the Hollis SMS50 "Sport" and the DiveRite Nomad LT "Blue Water" for examples. Both of these BCDs seem identical to existing sidemount BCDs that they sell - with the exception of providing a top-mounted LPI...

The reasons given for this are:

DiverWire:
Dive Rite has just launched the Nomad LT Bluewater, a sister product to the Nomad LT Cave BCD that launched last fall. Designed for sidemount diving in open bodies of water, the Nomad LT Bluewater gives the diver access to inflation and dump valves when in a vertical position, such as hanging on a down line or ascending up a wall. The Nomad LT Cave model has inflation positioned for dumping in a prone position, as required in an overhead environment.

and

Hollis Gear Nick:
...providing options to our [SMS50] customers as not all sidemount divers are trained with a hose routing across the waist and not all situations lend ease to this orientation, especially for open water divers.

From my perspective, teaching sidemount, there is no difference teaching open-water or overhead environment sidemount. Course syllabus specifies, in standards, the need for maintaining horizontal trim - it's a critical attribute aiding sidemount cylinder stability. Hoses route from a different position, compared to back-mount, and seeking efficient hose routing tends to favor direct connection between a sidemounted cylinder and a low-position LPI (running from below).

What are your opinions on this?

Me... I worry that this is nothing more than manufacturers pandering to incorrect assumptions held by (as yet untrained) sidemount divers - who see a 'traditionally located' LPI as being beneficial - whilst failing to understand the nature of the training they will receive and/or the issue of hose routing..

Or, worse, perhaps it is a prediction that the multitude of recreational instructors fast-tracking to sidemount instructor qualifications will lack the proper expertise and will be failing to prepare future sidemount students for proper trim or issues of hose management? Could it be a prediction that there will be/are sidemount instructors who cannot teach proper trim and propulsion skills to their students.

rjack321 · Feb 7, 2013

Lovely, now they are going out of their way to create gear so divers can stay in crap trim instead of just fixing the root problem.

Jim Lapenta · Feb 7, 2013

I must have got 6 emails announcing these. I do not yet dive SM. That is the plan for this season though. And maybe it's the fact that I don't dive SM yet that I find it unusual that they would apparently do things that go against the reason for the configuration in the first place. My plan is to do some SM training with Doppler and maybe another instructor that knows the gear. I've watched Jill's video a few times now and have some understanding. I'd love to take Andy's class but the Phillipines are just a tad too far for me.

Could someone explain the difference between SM for caves and wrecks vs open water. Because frankly I don't see it. I don't do caves but do dive wrecks. And my Wreck configuration is the same as my OW. If the goal is to make SM more accessible I see no problem. But if it's to do that and as rjack says not address the training deficiencies so common today what's the benefit? Just more people tearing stuff up and, perhaps getting hurt so that things can be quicker and easier? Some stuff should not be quick and easy. It should take work, skills, practice, and education.

Bentley Hamm · Feb 7, 2013

Jim Lapenta:
...Some stuff should not be quick and easy. It should take work, skills, practice, and education.

Therein lies the "root problem" as rjack says. We live in a time of helicopter parents, whose children can do no wrong, therefore what they are doing must be correct. Heaven forbid, someone actually has to take some extra time or classes to actually "pass" most any certification.

offroadr1 · Feb 8, 2013

I don't think there could be any difference in configuration. I would be more worried about people trying to cram themselves through any tiny hole the come across, over head or otherwise.

drbill · Feb 8, 2013

rjack321:
Lovely, now they are going out of their way to create gear so divers can stay in crap trim instead of just fixing the root problem.

Personally, as a videographer, I think the emphasis on horizontal trim is way overblown. I often film in a vertical position if I'm filming midwater and in an inverted vertical position if I'm filming over sensitive habitats like coral reefs. There is more than "one way" to dive.

Of course when a diver with poor buoyancy control is vertical and kicking up clouds of sediment nearby while I'm filming, I go ballistic!

DaleC · Feb 8, 2013

I think some make the mistake of confusing a gear configuration with a diving regime. Side mount is simply putting the tanks on the side - period. What you do with that is a diving regime. If I want to enter caves I take cave training; if I want to dive OW I take OW training. If I'm an OW diver I really don't need to adopt cave diving techniques. Sorry, but it's true.

Times change and cave diving no longer own sidemount. Time to stop claiming intellectual property rights. And those just new to the configuration even more so.

Thinking there's no difference in OW SM training and cave SM training is just kooky. Do you teach cave gas management for OW too? I'd laugh my ass off if someone suggested that to me on a dive and tell them their instructor sucked if they said they were taught there was no difference between cave and OW diving. If someone became completely anal about streamlining or breaking trim for the same reasons I'd just shake my head at their foolishness. What is so critical about maintaining horizontal trim in OW. When videoing I'm oriented in what ever aspect I need for the shot (as Dr Bill states). My tanks don't dictate that.

Who gets to say how a configuration should look or how it should be used? Is someone claiming to be the font of sidemount DIR? If OW divers want to configure in a certain way for their environment what basis does a cave diver have to criticize?

People dive too deep with singles, stay too long with doubles, go somewhere they shouldn't with sidemount. It's a people problem, not a gear problem.

Searcaigh · Feb 8, 2013

drbill:
Of course when a diver with poor buoyancy control is vertical and kicking up clouds of sediment nearby while I'm filming, I go ballistic!

Yep you should hear me swear underwater when that happens to me whilst taking photos

randytay · Feb 8, 2013

drbill:
Personally, as a videographer, I think the emphasis on horizontal trim is way overblown. I often film in a vertical position if I'm filming midwater and in an inverted vertical position if I'm filming over sensitive habitats like coral reefs. There is more than "one way" to dive.

Of course when a diver with poor buoyancy control is vertical and kicking up clouds of sediment nearby while I'm filming, I go ballistic!

DaleC:
I think some make the mistake of confusing a gear configuration with a diving regime. Side mount is simply putting the tanks on the side - period. What you do with that is a diving regime. If I want to enter caves I take cave training; if I want to dive OW I take OW training. If I'm an OW diver I really don't need to adopt cave diving techniques. Sorry, but it's true.

Times change and cave diving no longer own sidemount. Time to stop claiming intellectual property rights. And those just new to the configuration even more so.

Thinking there's no difference in OW SM training and cave SM training is just kooky. Do you teach cave gas management for OW too? I'd laugh my ass off if someone suggested that to me on a dive and tell them their instructor sucked if they said they were taught there was no difference between cave and OW diving. If someone became completely anal about streamlining or breaking trim for the same reasons I'd just shake my head at their foolishness. What is so critical about maintaining horizontal trim in OW. When videoing I'm oriented in what ever aspect I need for the shot (as Dr Bill states). My tanks don't dictate that.

Who gets to say how a configuration should look or how it should be used? Is someone claiming to be the font of sidemount DIR? If OW divers want to configure in a certain way for their environment what basis does a cave diver have to criticize?

People dive too deep with singles, stay too long with doubles, go somewhere they shouldn't with sidemount. It's a people problem, not a gear problem.

and I shake my head when someone else's buoyancy issues affected your ballistic levels when you are filming. Who gets to say how another's buoyancy skills should or should not be when you are filming? If poor divers do not want to improve their skills in any way they dive what basis does an underwater videographer/photographer have to curse and swear? It's their problem not yours.

people suddenly become anal about other's skill issues only when they themselves are filming or photographing underwater, I just have to laugh my ass off when they get their panties in a knot over such trivial issues. What is so critical FOR THEM that they have to be skilled divers suddenly when YOU are filming?

Paul S · Feb 8, 2013

DevonDiver:
From this thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/sc...eases-sidemount-bcd-ocean-diving-w-video.html

There seems to be a trend now for companies marketing 'open water only' BCDs. Look to the Hollis SMS50 "Sport" and the DiveRite Nomad LT "Blue Water" for examples. Both of these BCDs seem identical to existing sidemount BCDs that they sell - with the exception of providing a top-mounted LPI...

It doesn't make sense to me either. Nothing about having an LPI down low stops me using it in open water as long as I'm familiar with that concept. Yes, I'd want to be horizontal to dump air from it, but in sidemount that's normally the most comfortable way to be. If I'm on a shot line I'm horizontal because I'm decompressing and want my body all at the same depth. Regardless, I'd be taking up too much room if I wasn't. On a wall I'm horizontal because I'm normally going along it as I ascend / descend.

Anyway, don't these things have a high pull dump like most wings have a low pull dump for when you're inverted?

I think it's just that they're pitching them as "ideal travel BCDs" and that market has a lot of people in it that are only familiar with top mounted LPIs.

'Open Water' only sidemount BCDs: Your opinions?

Please register or login

DevonDiver

N/A

rjack321

ScubaBoard Supporter

Jim Lapenta

Contributor

Bentley Hamm

Registered

offroadr1

Contributor

drbill

The Lorax for the Kelp Forest

DaleC

Contributor

Searcaigh

Seahorse Wrangler

randytay

Contributor

Paul S

Registered

Similar threads