Skills

DepthCharge · Jan 20, 2014

I just returned from a trip to St. Lucia. This was the first time in a lot of years that I dove with a resort operation. Usually I perfer to dive with independent operations as they meet my needs better.
That said there was probably 10-16 divers/day on the boat. many were certified in the last 2 years, almost all within the last 5 years. I have to say the skills were deplorable. I spoke with several of the divers, asking just general questions about there training.

My questions are to the cerification agencies. Why are they still teaching the flutter kick? Most of the divers that I observed were probably hitting the reef 50% of the time, the rest of the time they were stirring up the bottom. Do they teach streamling? Everyone to a person had either gauges dragging or the octo or both.

I did educate my "insta-buddy", demonstatred how the frog kick was much less damaging, and how everthing should be tucked in. She said that her instructor never went over these things.

Before anyone says "well she had a bad instructor" I repeat, all of the divers I observered dove in the same manner, and had different instructors. Seemes to me, it's what the standards are is what the issue is.

So why aren't the agencies being brought up to the 20th century?

Later,
John

fisheater · Jan 20, 2014

You hit upon my main problem with warm water trips.

I LOVE warm water diving, but I had issues diving with most warm water divers.

I'm not sure it's an agency issue, as much as a culture issue. Even when those divers see good diving, they don't recognize it and simply don't care.

Jim Lapenta · Jan 20, 2014

Nah, it's poor training and a lack of understanding of what good divers look like. Simply because their instructors likely don't know either. Or don't really care.

crosshairs · Jan 20, 2014

Most if not all of the divers you see on these trips are "vacation divers" ....many took a resort course and were more than likely not taught about trim and conversational awareness.....they dive once a year and could care less about anything you try and teach them.

In my experirence, you will not see them at the independent shops, as most of those divers are not just vacation divers.

just because someone is certified to dive, does not mean they are a diver

DepthCharge · Jan 20, 2014

crosshairs:
Most if not all of the divers you see on these trips are "vacation divers" ....many took a resort course and were more than likely not taught about trim and conversational awareness.....they dive once a year and could care less about anything you try and teach them.

In my experirence, you will not see them at the independent shops, as most of those divers are not just vacation divers.

just because someone is certified to dive, does not mean they are a diver

While a lot of what you're saying is true, my concern is that most were never taught a "better" way. New divers are being taught the same way I was 26 years ago. I think things progress in 26 years........or maybe not.......... :shakehead:

Later,
John

---------- Post added January 20th, 2014 at 07:22 PM ----------

Jim Lapenta:
Nah, it's poor training and a lack of understanding of what good divers look like. Simply because their instructors likely don't know either. Or don't really care.

God I hope not. That's really a sad comment on the industry, but there is probably alot of truth in it.
Later,
John

Lorenzoid · Jan 20, 2014

It's interesting that your insta-buddy was even receptive to being shown a few things. From what I've seen, there are plenty of vacation-type divers who seemingly have no interest in "skills"--they just want to swim around and look at the fish and surface when their tank gets empty. I suspect they feel their dive skills are good enough to enable them to do what they want without having to think or work too hard.

DepthCharge · Jan 20, 2014

Lorenzoid:
It's interesting that your insta-buddy was even receptive to being shown a few things. From what I've seen, there are plenty of vacation-type divers who seemingly have no interest in "skills"--they just want to swim around and look at the fish and surface when their tank gets empty. I suspect they feel their dive skills are good enough to enable them to do what they want without having to think or work too hard.

Just to easy to get certified. Hell you can do half the course (or better) on line. No need for personal interaction.
Later,
John

chrispete · Jan 20, 2014

DepthCharge:
New divers are being taught the same way I was 26 years ago.

Unfortunately for the most part they aren't. They are being taught to dive in the minimum time possible because of the pressures in the marketplace. I took a 4 week, two night a week course when I was certified 12 years ago (4x 3 hour pool, 4x 3 hour classroom). Now it's usually compressed into three or four days - there's simply no time for someone to build meaningful skills in that period of time.

TMHeimer · Jan 21, 2014

chrispete:
Unfortunately for the most part they aren't. They are being taught to dive in the minimum time possible because of the pressures in the marketplace. I took a 4 week, two night a week course when I was certified 12 years ago (4x 3 hour pool, 4x 3 hour classroom). Now it's usually compressed into three or four days - there's simply no time for someone to build meaningful skills in that period of time.

When I was certified 9 years ago it was a 3 week, two night a week course (plus OW checkout ocean weekend, of course). I have always agreed that the 1 weekend pool course is an awful lot to digest in a very short period. I have seen this as a DM and am glad I did not take that course. Some handle it much better than others. Students and instructors alike say e learning is considerably better than the classroom course we did. I must agree. I was suggesting something like that for say Math, some 20-30 years ago using VCRs--back when I was teaching. I'm not the swiftest current in the inlet, being a "studier". But I immediately started diving regularly after OW cert. My guess is people failing to do this and becoming these
"vacation" divers is more responsible for what happens in the tropics than even the shortening of the course. Heck, I learned all my skills on my knees and think I came out OK. I have been fortunate in that I have rarely dived with any of these vacationers. Oh, I agree with Bob below that it's not the flutter kick.

Bob DBF · Jan 21, 2014

It isn't the flutter kick that is causing them to hit the reef and silt up the bottom, I'd guess poor buoyancy and trim first.

As was pointed out to me in another thread, it is not that standards have changed but what level of skill an instructor considers acceptable to meet those standards. To me the end product is appalling regardless of which is at fault, and shows the Agency has no effective quality control over the end product.

Bob
-------------------

Thalassamania:
That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

Skills

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