What did you learn on the wreck diving course?

Foxfish · Feb 9, 2014

Did you learn any new skills?

What important knowledge did you learn?

What should you learn?

Did you consider this course worthwhile?

Jim Lapenta · Feb 9, 2014

Which wreck course? They are not all the same. Different instructors also teach different courses. The one I teach is nothing like the one I took as a newer diver.

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Foxfish · Feb 9, 2014

Jim Lapenta:
Which wreck course? They are not all the same. Different instructors also teach different courses. The one I teach is nothing like the one I took as a newer diver.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Care to share some of the extra's you teach Jim?

MXGratefulDiver · Feb 9, 2014

Foxfish:
Did you learn any new skills?

What important knowledge did you learn?

What should you learn?

Did you consider this course worthwhile?

- How to research the wreck prior to the dive.
- Selecting goals and choosing routes
- Calculating gas needs and reserves
- Recognizing and avoiding potential hazards inside the wreck
- Lying line and choosing good tie-offs
- Exiting in a silt-out
- Exiting through restrictions while sharing air
- Maintaining a mental "map" of where you've been relative to where you entered the wreck

I considered it one of the better courses I've ever taken ... I wouldn't consider entering a wreck without having learned and practiced those skills.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Jim Lapenta · Feb 9, 2014

Bob's sounds more like an advanced wreck course. At least from the exiting through restrictions. The course I offer includes the first five of his points as part of the recreational wreck class I offer. After that it differs in that my belief is that non overhead trained recreational divers have no business in hard overheads including wrecks. So I spend a great deal of time showing them why.

We do detailed surveys of the exterior and take actual notes on a slate or wet notes to identify hazards, possible entries, exits, and places where we could tie off an up line. While doing the exterior survey I will let the student feel what it's like to get entangled on a line when they are not paying attention to the surroundings and are too focused on one thing. It may be just a loop around the tank valve or fin buckle. But I have found it a real eye opener for them.

Next we look at surveying the spaces where entering would be possible and show them the techniques to do that. I use a mirror to inspect entries so that the diver does not have to stick their head in. We look for snags and sharp edges that could cut a suit, hose, or flesh.

We'll practice tie offs on the outside and just inside.

We go over marking lines so that some idiot does not come along and untie the knot.

Next item is do we enter or not and what are the guidelines for recreational divers. Most often it is noted as 130 linear feet - combined depth and distance - within the light zone. I feel this is too arbitrary and very risky.

So the general rule is better to not go in but if you do then two divers should be able to swim side by side, turn around, communicate easily, and never lose direct sight of the entrance. So no turning down hallways, no going up or down stairs, absolutely no pure progressive penetration - a line is always used. Progressive penetration tips are given and used as a back up but always run a line. I don't like to set a distance because I feel that is too liberal and allows for abuse of it. Well the wreck is in 20 feet so we can go in 110! Nah.

We go over and do lost line drills and cover not undoing a tie off without making sure the next one is ok.

Last thing is a rescue scenario. Self rescue and rescue of a buddy from entanglement. We have a quarry with a large sikorsky helicopter. The kind with the large clamshell nose. I go in with number 18 braided masons twine and make a kind of spider web and have the student swim through it.

The goal is to see how far they can get without getting snagged up in it. On a similar area in open ocean this might be monofilament that is nearly invisible. This they can at least see. But they still have to move slowly and purposely to avoid getting hung up. But they won't avoid that. So once they are caught they need to free themselves. After that is done we clean up the "web" and do an ascent with an up line. But during the cleaning I always manage to "accidentally" get entangled myself while they are cleaning up. They then have to "calm me down" and get me loose.

What it teaches is that inside a wreck things happen. Sometimes very quickly and without warning. And that there really is no such thing as a clean or safe wreck once you go inside. My goal with recreational students is not to teach them to do that. It is to teach them to preferably not go in and this is why. And to not follow anyone who says "you'll be fine, we do this all the time". Look where that got the 4 Italians that went into Blood Grotto or the woman in Vanuatu.

Donnah · Feb 9, 2014

I learned not to follow a narced instructor who leaves the wreck and takes off into the void in Lake Superior. I thought she was going to show me a great camera angle for getting an image of the bow. My husband chased after us, grabbed her and shook her. Her husband, who was on his boat watching all the bubbles head away from the wreck, was puzzled.

Dive-aholic · Feb 9, 2014

Another "it depends on the instructor". There are some instructors that will give you the bare minimum and others who provide a much more involved and comprehensive course. When I took my wreck diving course several years ago I was still living in Arizona. I could have driven to San Diego with my LDS for its once a year San Diego/Wreck Diving trip and gotten the bare minimum. It would have cost me a lot less than what I did. I decided to travel to New Jersey, one of the wreck diving hot spots of the world and learn from a real wreck diver. Did I get the absolute best wreck diving course available? I couldn't tell you. I only took the one course. But I do know I got a much better course than my other option at the time. I also chose to go somewhere else for my dry suit course for the same reason. I wanted to learn from instructors who were doing the dives.

The point is to choose your instructor carefully.

Akimbo · Feb 9, 2014

I never took a wreck diving course exactly. My first wreck, besides mostly collapsed debris, was in Navy First Class Diving School where the week-long project was to raise a partially sunken small steel vessel in the Potomac River. The main deck was just above water but we had to patch a bunch of holes on the hull and inside compartments, pump her out, complete the obligatory cheering, re-sink her, and remove the patches for the next class.

All of the dives were surface-supplied so there wasnt much chance of getting lost. Unfortunately our class was in the middle of winter so we had to chop holes in the ice each morning. At least the wreck was cleaned so there wasnt fuel oil floating around like on a real newly sunken vessel.

There was more than a week of classroom time on salvage techniques before. I think that is where I became a brassoholic. I have no idea why because salvage is miserable and difficult work but I did. My next wreck of any significance was the Andrea Doria a couple of years later. You see, baby steps arent necessary when you are a cocky hairy-chested Navy Deep Sea Diver and an invincible male in your 20s.

However, that training served us very well. The great majority of which can be summed up in one word: Research. The diving part isnt that complicated. Dont get lost in a black hole before you run out of gas duh. Theres lots of ways to accomplish that and anyone that works is fine. Beyond that, research is what makes it interesting, safer, and gets the job done.

You can rarely locate detailed engineering plans, but you can study the heck out of everything you can find. That tedious process gives you time to reflect on most of the things than can go wrong and what you can do about it. In hindsight, that is the real payday of research.

Understanding ship construction is a huge part of that. Knowing which beams run port to starboard, how water-tight doors are made, how electrical cables are supported, and a myriad of other details can make the difference between getting lost and dead or sharing sea stories over beers later.

RJP · Feb 9, 2014

Dive-aholic:
The point is to choose your instructor carefully.

^ This!

Personally, I would suggest that you do not bother taking a wreck diving course from an instructor who does not dive wrecks as their main diving passion. You want to take one from an instructor who has actually been diving on real wrecks (hint: there are no "wrecks" in quarries) and not just a few, but many different wrecks. I don't care how good an instructor they are, if they don't have real wreck experience - and lots of it - stay away.

Mike.D · Feb 9, 2014

Jim Lapenta:
Bob's sounds more like an advanced wreck course. At least from the exiting through restrictions. The course I offer includes the first five of his points as part of the recreational wreck class I offer. After that it differs in that my belief is that non overhead trained recreational divers have no business in hard overheads including wrecks. So I spend a great deal of time showing them why.

We do detailed surveys of the exterior and take actual notes on a slate or wet notes to identify hazards, possible entries, exits, and places where we could tie off an up line. While doing the exterior survey I will let the student feel what it's like to get entangled on a line when they are not paying attention to the surroundings and are too focused on one thing. It may be just a loop around the tank valve or fin buckle. But I have found it a real eye opener for them.

Next we look at surveying the spaces where entering would be possible and show them the techniques to do that. I use a mirror to inspect entries so that the diver does not have to stick their head in. We look for snags and sharp edges that could cut a suit, hose, or flesh.

We'll practice tie offs on the outside and just inside.

We go over marking lines so that some idiot does not come along and untie the knot.

Next item is do we enter or not and what are the guidelines for recreational divers. Most often it is noted as 130 linear feet - combined depth and distance - within the light zone. I feel this is too arbitrary and very risky.

So the general rule is better to not go in but if you do then two divers should be able to swim side by side, turn around, communicate easily, and never lose direct sight of the entrance. So no turning down hallways, no going up or down stairs, absolutely no pure progressive penetration - a line is always used. Progressive penetration tips are given and used as a back up but always run a line. I don't like to set a distance because I feel that is too liberal and allows for abuse of it. Well the wreck is in 20 feet so we can go in 110! Nah.

We go over and do lost line drills and cover not undoing a tie off without making sure the next one is ok.

Last thing is a rescue scenario. Self rescue and rescue of a buddy from entanglement. We have a quarry with a large sikorsky helicopter. The kind with the large clamshell nose. I go in with number 18 braided masons twine and make a kind of spider web and have the student swim through it.

The goal is to see how far they can get without getting snagged up in it. On a similar area in open ocean this might be monofilament that is nearly invisible. This they can at least see. But they still have to move slowly and purposely to avoid getting hung up. But they won't avoid that. So once they are caught they need to free themselves. After that is done we clean up the "web" and do an ascent with an up line. But during the cleaning I always manage to "accidentally" get entangled myself while they are cleaning up. They then have to "calm me down" and get me loose.

What it teaches is that inside a wreck things happen. Sometimes very quickly and without warning. And that there really is no such thing as a clean or safe wreck once you go inside. My goal with recreational students is not to teach them to do that. It is to teach them to preferably not go in and this is why. And to not follow anyone who says "you'll be fine, we do this all the time". Look where that got the 4 Italians that went into Blood Grotto or the woman in Vanuatu.

Wow!!!

Hey Jim if your ever in Australia and feel like running a wreck course I would most certainly be interested!!!!

Wreck diving courses here seem like child's play compared to the way you run yours.

Mike

What did you learn on the wreck diving course?

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Foxfish

Contributor

Jim Lapenta

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Foxfish

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MXGratefulDiver

Mental toss flycoon

Jim Lapenta

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Donnah

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Dive-aholic

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Akimbo

Just a diver

RJP

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Mike.D

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