The true costs in the Certification fee

"Doing it cheap" Thread made me think of my cert costs and then ask, why?

I have done 3 Certs.
OWC $350
Ice Diver $25
AOW $350

OW and AOW were done at a shop. Ice diver was done with a club.

With the Ice diver, all we paid for was for the actual certification costs. The instructors volunteered their time so that they could get more people qualified. The pool time was part of an agreement out club had with the local pool, and the classroom time was the same as the pool.

Some might think, you get what you paid for. I paid a small cost, and in comparison, learned more in that one course than my other 2.

Unfortunately, I do not live near that club anymore, so I cannot do anymore courses through them.

So, why go cheap? Why not?

I took the point of the thread to mean "get good prices where you can, but don't skimp on safety".

you've been lucky enough to get a fantastic price on a course with a certified instructor, but (for example) buying the material from ebay and then considering yourself competent to dive in ice is indeed getting a good price, but you're also risking your and potentially other people's safety.

It's a decision everyone needs to take carefully and understand the ramifications of their decisions. It obviously worked for you given you were quite lucky with timing of an instructor and a few relationships a club had.

I also got my deep certification the same way on a trip. one of the other guys on our trip was a staff instructor and we spent a few hours doing the course work and he signed off the dives. I think it cost me the book and 2 beers.

does this really need a new thread?

Not really sure what your point is? I'm certainly no expert on dive shop economics, but I have heard that shops make very little on courses--in the hopes that divers will continue to dive and purchase equipment, air, servicing, etc. The shop also must pay their instructors. Most don't get paid very well so I hear. If there is a divemaster involved they rarely get paid at all (and still do it), which blows my mind. The instructor at the club doing it for free is a mystery to me as well. These are ancient SB discussions. You said the instructors volunteered they're time so that they could get more people qualified. Do you mean they worked for free so people could become certified Ice Divers? If so, it's great that you got a good course for $25. I need more clarification.

Well, part of my point is, Why do they cost so different. What am I paying for.

When I bring my car in to get an oil change, I am given an itemized list of all the costs, not just what was done and the final cost.

If they did the same thing with certifications, you might see more people understand the true costs involved.

How much are they paying the instructor per hour?
How much is the pool cost?
How much is the rental gear?
.... How much does it REALLY cost.

So, whether it is not renting, or a lower cost instructor, or other cost savings, people should know what the real costs are, and why it is the expensive.

Yes, it is a business, but if someone wants to shop around, why not give them all the costs so they know what they get for that fee.

you said yourself that the instructors in the club were volunteering their time so this course was done practically for free. The $25 might have been the fee paid to the agency that issued your c-card.
Other instructors make their living with teaching, they have to charge you for their time.
I do not see what difference it would make in terms of quality of training whether the pool was sponsored by the community or had to be paid for by the trainer.

Agility:

you said yourself that the instructors in the club were volunteering their time so this course was done practically for free. The $25 might have been the fee paid to the agency that issued your c-card.
Other instructors make their living with teaching, they have to charge you for their time.
I do not see what difference it would make in terms of quality of training whether the pool was sponsored by the community or had to be paid for by the trainer.

Click to expand...

When your number one goal is not to make money, then things change slightly. It was almost as though the instructors wanted you to be successful, and learn as much about it as possible.

My AOW, it really felt as though the instructor was there just to sign off those dives, not to actually teach me anything.

My OWC, I did learn lots, but, I am part of the group that would be at the bottom, overweighted, kneeling on the bottom doing the skills.

When I compare the 3 courses, the ones where the instructors are paid, it as though they did not care as much.


I notice that regardless of the activity, people who are paid never seem to give as much as those that volunteer.

So, If I can just pay the cert fee, and not have to pay for anything else, that is a great bargain.

For that fee your get trained, that's what you get, and that is what you are paying for.

Cheaper with volunteer unpaid labour? Duh. Of course.

For the rest, the cost breakdown is quite frankly immaterial. You can afford it or not. You consider it value or not. It is good instruction or not.

What is special about dive training that the supplier should be breaking down their price and having to justify each component?

A car service itemization would list Wheel Alignment - 69.95 and may show a labour time which is a standard time allowed, not actual time spent. If they are quick, they pocket the extra. If not, they made a little less. To this time is applied a shop rate. It includes all kinds of costs, but it doesn't tell you what the mechanic was paid. Or the cost of using the service bay. Or the cost of using the alignment equipment. They don't give you as much as you seem to think.

What difference does it make?

Goal: Training Course A.
Data gathering: Who provides it? What is the course content? Instructor qualifications? Reputation? What is the all-in cost (including all extra charges / items not included)?
Decision: Weight the factors to your preference and make a choice (which could include "None).

Does it really matter if shop 1 charges 60 for equipment and 40 for pool and that shop 2 charges 50 for each? If the same stuff is included in the total price, and if all else is equal, choose the lower price. Why do you care about information that in the grand scheme has no bearing on your decision?

I do not understand this obsession so many people have. Training for required certs is not expensive. Everything else is optional.

---------- Post added February 17th, 2014 at 01:52 AM ----------

swimmer_spe:

When your number one goal is not to make money, then things change slightly. It was almost as though the instructors wanted you to be successful, and learn as much about it as possible.

My AOW, it really felt as though the instructor was there just to sign off those dives, not to actually teach me anything.

My OWC, I did learn lots, but, I am part of the group that would be at the bottom, overweighted, kneeling on the bottom doing the skills.

When I compare the 3 courses, the ones where the instructors are paid, it as though they did not care as much.


I notice that regardless of the activity, people who are paid never seem to give as much as those that volunteer.

So, If I can just pay the cert fee, and not have to pay for anything else, that is a great bargain.

Click to expand...

The simple answer here is don't waste your money on instructors who don't care.

Good luck finding a continuous supply of people willing to volunteer so you can save money on paying people for their time.

"Good luck finding a continuous supply of people willing to volunteer so you can save money on paying people for their time."

I would rather pay for someone to give me a quality course, but it seems that those that do it without wanting anything for it seem to give a better course.

swimmer_spe:

"Good luck finding a continuous supply of people willing to volunteer so you can save money on paying people for their time." I would rather pay for someone to give me a quality course, but it seems that those that do it without wanting anything for it seem to give a better course.

Click to expand...

This might sort of the break down you are after, for GUE courses you pay the cert cost directly to them. Then what ever you pay to the instructor is in effect for their time, this might be a bit more complicated past fundies level (or in specific locations) where gas/boat/site fees are in addition but in general I believe most tech instructors are open with where the costs all go.

rambaldi:

This might sort of the break down you are after, for GUE courses you pay the cert cost directly to them. Then what ever you pay to the instructor is in effect for their time, this might be a bit more complicated past fundies level (or in specific locations) where gas/boat/site fees are in addition but in general I believe most tech instructors are open with where the costs all go.

Click to expand...

Yes, but then I would only be allowed to get their setup. Anything else is forbidden