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Strick
December 10th, 2001, 01:12 AM
I've heard from a few people that it is not good to have weights actually in your BC that has the integrated weight system. Now obviously I don't see a problem or why else why would they make them. My question is prior or after the dive. They mention that carrying the weights in the BC out of the water will wear out the bc weight pockets and eventually rip something out. Has anyone experienced this? :confused:

blacknet
December 10th, 2001, 02:04 AM
Hello,

My bc is integrated, the *ONLY* problem i've ever had was leaving the weights at home! The pockets are designed for the weight and shouldn't 'wear out the pockets' It's alot easier to put on and take off the gear and you don't have to worry about the weight belt sliding.

Ed

socaldiver
December 10th, 2001, 02:41 AM
I also have an integrated weight system on my BC. I have not had a problem personally and have not heard of any where the BC wore out due to the weights.

However, I have heard where some people have had problems when the weight pocket(s) fell out of the BC at depth, which obviously can become quite dangerous.

Walter
December 10th, 2001, 08:15 AM
The weight pockets are indeed designed to hold the weights, but everything will wear out eventually. The less stress placed on anything, the longer it will last. From that standpoint, it's a good idea not to leave weights in the BC any longer than necessary.

OTOH, weights in the BC while setting up the system are a PITA anyway, so I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave them in.

From time to time, I encounter people who need extra assistance exiting the water. They remove their BC in the water then climb the ladder without the weight of the tank. I'm happy to take the BC/tank assembly and lift it onto the boat for them. If they have an integrated weight system, they need to hand their weights up first. Those who forget to hand their weights up separately will be getting help from someone else, or lifting their own system from the water.

DSSW,

WWW™

Strick
December 10th, 2001, 10:19 AM
Thanks! I appreciate the info. Thats what I thought on the design issues of the weight intergrated BC, Just wanted to see what everyone thought.
=-)

Scottri
December 10th, 2001, 12:27 PM
I also dive with a weight integrated BC but I don't worry too much about carrying the weights in the pockets wearing anything out but me. I like to carry the BC with the weights out just because it is lighter. I usually put my weights in right before going in the water and take them out right after I get out just to make it easier.

Scott

buff
December 10th, 2001, 12:27 PM
I wore a weight integrated BC with my dry suit . I had to walk about 50 yards to the lake with full dive outfit on-tank, weights,dry suit etc.. It didn't even seem like I was carrying any weight it felt so comfortable. Though I have heard of it happening, I can't imagine how the weights would slip out-I could hardly get them out of the BC when I was trying let alone a random "fall out"

I like em'!

Stone
December 10th, 2001, 01:10 PM
Another design issue related to integrated weights is weight distribution. I would hope that all BCs using integrated weights have a way to distribute the weight (ditchable or non-ditchable) so the diver can achieve proper trim while diving and not be uncomfortable (forced face down) on the surface.

FinMeister
December 10th, 2001, 02:29 PM
Strick,

I've not heard of weights wearing out the pockets of a weight integrated BC. I suppose it's possible that poor workmanship or a material defect could eventually result in a pocket failure. However, I suspect that would be rare.

However, I HAVE heard of weights coming out of pockets. At depth, as I'm sure you know, such an event could lead to a potentially dangerous uncontrolled ascent.

In several instances with which I'm directly familiar, it was a failure of the fastening device holding the weights in vest, not the pockets being worn out. In one, the velcro fastener closing the weight pocket was fouled with sand and debris preventing many of the hooks and loops from engaging. In another, the fastener, a buckle device, came undone.

Actually, I have more concern that I am going to forget to put the weights in the pockets rather than them falling out!

Warren

Lost Yooper
December 10th, 2001, 02:46 PM
I've seen several models of weight intergration BC's lose their weights while underwater resulting in an uncontrolled ascent. I'm not a fan of ditchable weight integration. There are other ways to deal with weighting.

Mike

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 02:53 PM
Just for an alternative view...

I have tried weight integrated bc's and I prefer a weight belt...

I find that I can get a better fit with the belt. In my experience, when I used a weight integrated bc, and was inverted underwater, the weight often caused the bc to slide up (down?) around my ears...

The belt allows me to put the weight where I want it, and cinch it up tight, keeping it there. (I do also, depending on the dive, sometiems use ankle weights, or place a small extra wieght in a bc pocket.)

Just another preference.

Scubaroo
December 10th, 2001, 03:39 PM
A crotch strap (if your BC is compatable) solves the sliding BC problem.

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 03:41 PM
Ladycute - I use a weight belt for half my weight, with the other half in the weight pockets of my Transpac II. I have also had a problem with the BC riding up around my ears, and I solved it with a crotch strap for the BC. Oh sure - the strap gets a little 'friendly' sometimes - but it's better than having my shoulder straps around my earlobes!

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 03:42 PM
Ben - you're a faster typist than I am!!!

buff
December 10th, 2001, 03:48 PM
Ladychute1
........."and was inverted underwater"

I hear a lot of divers on this board talk often about being inverted or upside down under water. I have to admit it's a cool feeling but I don't spend that much time in this position to seriously consider it a factor in my equipment purchase or equipment setup. It's more of a novelty to me.

I have to ask "What are you doing that you are in this postiton so much" "Do you want to be in this position that much-or is it by accident"??

I like to be parallel with the bottom of the lake or ocean-Am I unique in this desire??

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 04:01 PM
Buff - I also prefer to be horizonatl/parallel with the bottom, but I tend to get 'inverted' when I am swimming around looking at stuff and something interesting catches my eye at a greater depth. I would think this would happen all the time with wreck divers - although I have yet to dive a wreck - plan to take the course over the summer. It's these quick changes in direction from horizontal to inverted-vertical that got my BC sliding up before I got the crotch strap.

For instance - I was swimming nice and horizontally along the top of a submerged schoolbus at a local quarry - and wanted to check out the large catfish I saw duck around the rear tire - so I kicked my fins up, put my head down and kicked toward the tire (hence putting my budy in an inverted position). Once I got to the tire - I got horizintal again (with a minimum of sculling - I'm still trying to perfect this.) [As a side note - I also have the bad habit of putting one hand out in front of me as I am gliding through the water (think Superman position from the first movie). I know it's a No-No as I should have my hands at my side or clasped in front of me - but it's just so cool 'flying' through the water like that]

I also know several people who descend head first in good vis situations...I haven't done that yet - still trying to do things by the book - but I know it happens.

Walter
December 10th, 2001, 04:13 PM
Crotch straps will solve the problem, but with a weight belt there is no problem and crotch straps are never comfortable.

while touring the reef horizontal is preferred, but I often (usually?) descend head first and often peak under ledges in that position. If you are neutrally buoyant you are as close to weightless as you'll get except in space or very brief moments in flight. I try to take total advantage of it.

DSSW,

WWW™

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 04:19 PM
..somehow, I thought I might start something.....

OK.. in response to 'What the hell are ya doin' upside down?'

First, it's always deliberate on my part. .... well, maybe once or twice when trying to releive a cramp..... ok, it's ALMOST always deliberate on my part.

1) I like the sensation...so, why not once in awhile...

2) sometimes I'm looking at very little things on the bottom... and I don't want to stir up sand... once was watching some itsy bitsy plankton / nudibranchs (?we were never totally sure) -- we were using a magnifying glass --- these things were only the size of maybe 50 grains of sand...

3) sometimes it's the best way to see into a small crevice without touching the reef....

4) sometimes it's the best way to light a spot for a buddy to see (especialy at night)


and.. also... when I refered to the integrated bc slipping... it didn't happen ONLY when I was absolutely vertical, but also when rolling from side to side... in general, I didn't experience good control of the weight --- so MY preference is for a weight belt... No thank you, I don't want a crotch strap. You get right ahead and enjoy your nice, spiffy integrated bc.... I'll keep my old system which works just great for me. :jester:

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 04:21 PM
..somehow, I thought I might start something.....

OK.. in response to 'What the hell are ya doin' upside down?'

First, it's always deliberate on my part. .... well, maybe once or twice when trying to releive a cramp..... ok, it's ALMOST always deliberate on my part.

1) I like the sensation...so, why not once in awhile...

2) sometimes I'm looking at very little things on the bottom... and I don't want to stir up sand... once was watching some itsy bitsy plankton / nudibranchs (?we were never totally sure) -- we were using a magnifying glass --- these things were only the size of maybe 50 grains of sand...

3) sometimes it's the best way to see into a small crevice without touching the reef....

4) sometimes it's the best way to light a spot for a buddy to see (especialy at night)


and.. also... when I refered to the integrated bc slipping... it didn't happen ONLY when I was absolutely vertical, but also when rolling from side to side... in general, I didn't experience good control of the weight --- so MY preference is for a weight belt... No thank you, I don't want a crotch strap. You get right ahead and enjoy your nice, spiffy integrated bc.... I'll keep my old system which works just great for me.
:jester:

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 04:23 PM
oops.. I put this on the wrong thread.... see this thread in the general scuba discusssion for the rest of it.

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 04:29 PM
Something you crotch strap afficianado's may want to try - I haven't tried this, but I saw a diver a couple of months ago who had afixed a pad to his crotch strap (like one of those pads on the shoulder straps on luggage) it made the strap wider and more cushioned at the 'contact point' with the body - less possibility of being 'sawed' in half this way....looked like a good solution - and he said it felt great,

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 04:38 PM
Oh joy!....a padded crotch strap... oh... boy! what fun... just what I always wanted.. to scuba dive with the yellow pages between my legs!

(gentlemen, ask a woman friend to what I am referring)

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 04:58 PM
Alright, Alright - maybe it's not for everyone - and maybe it would too closely resemble a different, yet similar, item with pads & belts - it was just a thought! <S>

And BTW - I am one of those guys who most willing goes to the store and makes that purchase for my wife on a monthly basis - I/we prefer the thin overnights with wings - I am amazed by the variety....my guess is if this were a 'guy' issue as oposed to a 'gal' issue - there would be one size, style and color - probably black...<S> [Maybe this post should be moved to the Women's section...]

ladycute1
December 10th, 2001, 05:23 PM
Nah, martin, if this was a 'guy' issue there would be a "cure."

martinjc
December 10th, 2001, 05:28 PM
LOL - you're probably right! <S>

tombiowami
December 10th, 2001, 06:40 PM
Like many things it does not matter so much what, but how...

Integrated weights can be made very well, or awful. As far as hurting the BC, it depends on how well the bc is made to begin with, after all, we generally only have a 2" piece of webbing to hold many lbs. around the waist.

But do not ever think that just because someone makes it, that it is a good idea...


I think if it is a poor design that they could come out just as easily as a weight belt put on wrong or with cheap parts.


Tommy

blacknet
December 10th, 2001, 07:39 PM
Stone,

As for the weight distro and placment with the face down syndrone it's very simple. Put counter weights on the tank. I put #4 of weights on the tank and have no problem with the 'face down syndrone'. Most weight integrated bc's have some distributed system around the waist.

Ed

GP
December 10th, 2001, 07:44 PM
I dive a Zeagle Ranger and I have no problems at all with being face down. I am considering putting some of my weight in back though on the tank straps because I dive a 7mil two piece suit and I need so much weight that my weight pockets are stuffed full. I hate weight belts. They give me a sore back, they turn around while underwater so all the weight ends up in front with the buckle in the back.

blacknet
December 10th, 2001, 07:48 PM
Hello,

Interesting. I dive with a 6.5mm jump suit and I use 14# in freshwater.

Ed

jmsdiver
December 12th, 2001, 05:32 AM
I prefer a weight integrated BC. I do not store the weights in the BC and I prefer to place them in the BC after I have donned it and tend to take the weight pockets out when I doff it. I do not have a head down orientation with the BC, however, my feet seem to sink whether I use the weight integrated BC or a weight belt. Don't understand why as I don't where ankle weights. I usually get a good chuckle out of people as the pockets are labeled "left" and "right". I prefer to get the weight off my lower back (ie weight belt) and onto my shoulders.

When will they make an anatomically correct crotch strap?? :D

ladycute1
December 12th, 2001, 10:21 AM
>>>>>>When will they make an anatomically correct crotch strap??<<<<<


I shudder to think.......
:confused:

Lost Yooper
December 12th, 2001, 11:29 AM
Wussies! :D

Don't tighten 'em so tight (gee whiz :) ). I use a crotch strap with just a bathing suit on every week and have no problems at all.

Later.

Mike

scubabunny
December 14th, 2001, 11:08 PM
I use integrated weight and love them..but remember there is a weight limit to each pocket (normally 10lbs each). If that weight is exceded it can cause too much stress on the pocket and they may fall out at depth. Some BCs have different size pockets that can hold more weight, and most do have trim weight pockets.

If you need more weight, think about tank weight pockets that attach to your tank strap.

ladycute, I'm guessing you are diving dry? Is it possible to cinch down your waist strap at depth to keep your BC in place, or will that screw everything up? I don't know much about drysuits...except I never want to wear one! (well.....never say never, right?;) )

ladycute1
December 15th, 2001, 03:40 AM
No Scubabunny, I'm not diving with a dry suit. Because of my size and shape, I need a Men's XL BC.... that means even with cinching it down... it ends to be a bit loose in the shoulders / chest area...

It works FINE with a weight belt. I've tried weight integrated systems, and while many people love them, they haven't worked well for me. I'm very happy with my system of weight belt and bc.


:mean:

Walter
December 15th, 2001, 09:36 AM
ladycute1,

Are you sure you need an XL? I find most people use BC's that are too large for them. I'm 5' 8" and weigh 170, yet I'm quite comfortable in an XS BC. The S fits slightly better, but the XS works quite well. I never hook the chest strap as they serve no useful purpose. You might experiment with smaller BC's. As for switching to weight integrated, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

DSSW,

WWW™

ladycute1
December 15th, 2001, 01:04 PM
Hi Walter....

Thanks for your support in the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' category!

In terms of size, yep, I need an XL.... I have a very large hour glass figure.... ok, ok... perhaps it is a 'month-glass' --- but, my point is, that my hips are large.... I'm well out of the range of women's BC sizes... So, that leaves me with a men's. Now, most men have body shapes that get narrower in the hips... So, in order to to get a bc that will go around my waist and the top of my hips... In order to get one where the cumberbun will close securely, I need an XL.

Now, I have thought about making a velcro extension so that I could lengthen the cumberbun, but, frankly, that falls into the category of 'if it ain't broke..... '

:mean:

buff
December 15th, 2001, 03:50 PM
I don't see how a crotch strap is comfortable.

However, I do believe that Scubapro has a double belt crotch strap. Instead of a single strap running down the middle of your genitals it has a dual strap that are placed on both sides-truly in your "crotch" on not on your privates. It's more of a harness than a strap. Like parachutest(sp?) wear. Looks much more comfortable.
Someday, when I get big, I'm going to get a backplate and rig the aforementioned design to it. No single crotch strap for me!!

Mike

buff
December 15th, 2001, 03:53 PM
Ladychute1
From your description of your problems it sounds like your just asking to get a backplate and harness. They can be made to fit YOU-not you fit the BC. You can also put integrated weights on any harness if so desired.

Warhammer
December 15th, 2001, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by buff
I don't see how a crotch strap is comfortable.

However, I do believe that Scubapro has a double belt crotch strap. Instead of a single strap running down the middle of your genitals it has a dual strap that are placed on both sides-truly in your "crotch" on not on your privates. It's more of a harness than a strap. Like parachutest(sp?) wear. Looks much more comfortable.
Someday, when I get big, I'm going to get a backplate and rig the aforementioned design to it. No single crotch strap for me!!

Mike

The crotch strap for my Ranger is designed the same way and it is very comfortable.

JustAddWater
December 18th, 2001, 10:39 PM
I am very pleased with my weight integrated BC. I take my weights out following a dive trip because I feel I can clean the BC more thoroughly.


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