PADI DM requirement and PADI standards

Good morning.

I have a question regarding the PADI DM course requirements and PADI standards. I know the requirements which I have. In this case, I have a NAUI rescue + EFR with over 120 dives in numerous countries including lots of night and deep dives.

I contacted a local PADI instructor for a DM course and he stated he requires the deep dive speciality as well as search and rescue for "safety reasons". He can teach me this for a nice fee of course. Is he allowed to do make such a demand?
I had a look at the content of those specialities and I see nothing that I can gain from it that I already am capably of.

I know NAUI encourages teachers to go beyond standards but I thought this was a kind of no-no for PADI?! Unless PADI Japan has different rules then PADI globally?

If the student has Deep and/or Search & REcovery, they can be excused completing the related training exercises/scenarios. Those aren't prerequisites.

That said, the instructor/center have the right to demand any prerequisites they wish - or refuse any customer they wish. Take it or leave it.

DevonDiver:

If the student has Deep and/or Search & REcovery, they can be excused completing the related training exercises/scenarios. Those aren't prerequisites.

That said, the instructor/center have the right to demand any prerequisites they wish - or refuse any customer they wish. Take it or leave it.

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Thank you for making that clear. I have no problem with any exercise or requirement described as part of the DM course. I just don't want to pay the equivalent of 1000$ for those specialities (what he is asking) for things I am already competent in. I do qualify for the official requirements and above. It's just a money grab.

There are not many local English instructors and I guess I'll just have to go to Indonesia and do it properly there when I get the chance.

Isn't the deep dive specialty required with PADI's AOW?

Or you could just complete a NAUI DM with the folks at Discovery Divers Tokyo close by or come see us in Okinawa.

scubastingray:

Isn't the deep dive specialty required with PADI's AOW?

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The Deep Adventure Dive done as part of AOW is not the same as the full Deep Specialty. One does not recieve any "Specialties" when they do the Adventure dives as part of the AOW.

Dive Master Candidates are required to complete a Search and Recovery Scenario and a Deep Dive Scenario. Both of which have specific tasks that are to be completed.

Alfawolfje:

I contacted a local PADI instructor for a DM course and he stated he requires the deep dive speciality as well as search and rescue for "safety reasons". He can teach me this for a nice fee of course. Is he allowed to do make such a demand? . . . There are not many local English instructors and I guess I'll just have to go to Indonesia and do it properly there when I get the chance.

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As DevonDiver stated, the Instructor has the right to establish additional pre-requisite requirements. That is true at virtually any level. The Instructor cannot legitimately represent the additional requirements as being set by PADI - that would be misrepresentation, and PADI would probably have something to say about the practice.

In our DM program we routinely recommend that each DMC complete the Search and Recovery specialty, and we offer it to DMCs at a substantial discount to encourage their participation. But, if a candidate does not wish to complete the course, or has a scheduling conflict, we conduct the S&R scenario (Practical Application Skill 4) to fulfill the requirements.

A fee of $1000 for the two specialties does appear to be rather high, but I know little of pricing for scuba courses in Japan. (I presume the '$' refers to USD.) Out of curiosity, does this Instructor require that the specialties be completed with him, or just that the DMC have those specialty certifications prior to starting / finishing the DM course? As you suggest, the situation may just be a money grab, in which case going elsewhere makes a lot of sense, even if the total cost ends up being the same. Did you ask the Instructor what you would get in the way of unique or exceptional course content / training, that would justify such a fee?

Hawkwood:

The Deep Adventure Dive done as part of AOW is not the same as the full Deep Specialty. One does not recieve any "Specialties" when they do the Adventure dives as part of the AOW.

Dive Master Candidates are required to complete a Search and Recovery Scenario and a Deep Dive Scenario. Both of which have specific tasks that are to be completed.

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I have no problem with doing any scenario. But stating 1000$ for a DM program and saying I need some "specialties" for another 1000$ before I can start the program sounds wrong after what I know about PADI system and this diving community. I have done my OW, my AOW, my rescue and EFR and to be honest, my NAUI training has been taught me beyond normal levels for various situations.
Claiming these required specialties (as they stated for safety reasons) before any proper assessment of my skills is just an improper attempt to make extra money. I have been reading this board for a long time and regularly checked PADI requirements for different reasons and never saw this kind of "rule" before.
Next to that, I asked various dive centers in Asia for DM program requirements and nobody asked me anything beyond my required rescue training. And I asked a lot of instructors in Asia.

The Search and Recovery and Deep Dive Scenarios are a listed part of the DM course. It is the instructor's job to teach the student, so those scenarios can be conducted effectively. That's the same as every other scenario and skill on the DM course. There is no justification whatsoever for claiming not having those skills would be unsafe.

If a diver already has Search and Recovery and/or Deep Diver qualifications, the instructor can simply waive the requirement to do those scenarios. Again, there are no safety implications whatsoever.

If I was you, I'd be asking them to explain what their safety concerns were (preferably in writing)... and bring those issues up with PADI directly.

The DM requirements are in the PADI instructor manual, and you need to complete a deep (DM skill 5) and search & recovery (skill 4) scenario. Those 2 skills have very specific tasks that need to be performed, which are a subset of the deep and search & recovery specialties. You do need to have logged "at least 60 scuba dives including experience in night diving, deep diving and underwater navigation" and have be "Certified as a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver and PADI Rescue Diver". Personally, I would be concerned if an instructor arbitrarily required additional items when it looked like they were just looking to profit from me, rather than providing a good education. If your deep or S&R skills aren't up to snuff, the instructor should be working with you to get you where you need to be, and any remedial work should have already been factored into the quoted price for the DM course