are all agencies created equal?

Obviously not...but why not?

As a newcomer to scuba in general but especially cavern and cave diving, I am confused by all the training agencies I see. I'm beginning to learn the shortcoming of PADI's strategy of manufacturing "instructors" as a business model, and now my sights are turned to the cave agencies, where presumably the goal is to promote safe cave diving and train expert students. I hope I won't be another year in to my training and find myself newly jaded by the next agency. But what's the difference? Many cave instructors offer a buffet of acronyms along with your earned passing grade. Why would anyone choose one over another? As an academic, I'm accustomed to the conflict between the desire to take pride in a prestigious affiliation and realizing that these institutions are themselves just businesses, and a wise participant seeks out the most practical organization.

I'd be happy to see some links to explanations in other posts, ideally hoping to get a history lesson that doesn't have a pitch attached.

You wont come out of a cave class anywhere close to being an expert.

PfcAJ:

You wont come out of a cave class anywhere close to being an expert.

Click to expand...

And if you come out of a cave class and consider yourself an expert then the instructor has done a terrible job.

There are good instructors and there are bad instructors, and there are downright dangerous instructors. Some of the training agencies have procedures that are designed to help route out the bad and dangerous ones and either retrain them or expell them, other agencies don't. This means that at a given level, you have a better chance of getting a good instructor from certain organisations. That said, there are excellent instructors involved in every agency, just not every instructor from every agency is good/excellent.

Personally I took a lot of high level training from GUE and found every instructor that I had to be excellent, and this is why I was drawn to them when I became a tech/cave instructor myself. I strive to be the best instructor that it is possible to be, and the organisation helps and expects me to do that, as well as watching me to make sure I don't slip.

HTH
John

It's all about the instructor not the agency. A lot of the instructors teach for multiple agencies and can issue a card for which ever one you prefer. I think most people think their instructor was the best. This I think is due in part to not experiencing any other instructors and also we all like to think we made the best choice. Find the instructor you like that has a reputation for turning out good students. Another big thing to consider is the type of diving you plan to do. Find an instructor that specializes in that. If you plan on diving sidemount in Florida I wouldn't go to Mexico for the training. Florida caves are generally deeper than Mexico and therefore we dive steel cylinders for more gas volume where in Mexico they typically dive aluminum 80's. There is a difference in the sidemount systems due to the difference in tanks. With you being in New Orleans you are about 5 hours or so from Mariana, Fl. I highly recommend Edd at Cave Adventurers especially if you are planning on diving sidemount. He will not teach backmount. If you are set on backmount diving then I am sure he can point you in the right direction even though he will probably ask you why.

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the wisdom offered. However, my question here is not how to choose an instructor. I'm hoping to hear more about why people think of the different agencies. I have heard GUE is very thorough, but perhaps impractically so. I've also heard they have requirements to upkeep their certification. When I finish my class, hopefully with Edd, what certification alphabet soup should I pick? Are there perks to being affiliated with one over another? I'd hoped to keep the conversation general to cover all agencies and be useful and interesting to other readers, but my primary interest is in the differences between GUE (because they seem to focus explicitly on research efforts), and on PSAI/NSS-CDS/IANTD (because this is what Edd offers). Thanks for any enlightenment you can offer.

If you are taking the class through Edd you can forget about GUE at this time. It is my understanding that they are currently working on a sidemount course and it makes sense since they now have a sidemount rig. Personally I would go NSS-CDS but that is just my personal preference. I have heard that you can get more than one card at a time if that is what you want. The standards are generally close between the agencies and I have heard of people getting cards from two agencies at the same time by paying a few dollars more to cover the cost of the card. I wouldn't get concerned about the name on the card.

I guess I'm just interested anyway.

Should I take these responses to mean that others have no opinion about the different agencies, and have not found any significant differences between them?

there are huge differences between GUE and other agencies.

the standards are much higher and you will be required to pass the fundamentals course at the 'tech pass' level before you will be allowed to advance to cave or tech training. you will need to show proof that you're actively diving to renew your cert etc.

the gue course will also probably cost three times what the other agencies offer...

Sorry folks, deleted post. did not realize question was specific to cave diving

Gue training will get you an "in" with worldwide gue groups. The same can't be said for a cds or
nacd cert.

gues cave 1 cert is comparable to an intro cert from another agency (gas limits are a bit more liberal, but not much), but their c2 class is a lot more comprehensive covering staging and basic survey, plus deco. The gue training method consistently produces safe, skilled cave divers. It's a bit more hit or miss with other agencies due to the lack of oversight John wrote about.

The best part is that before you even start a cave class, you must take fundamentals. This is really important as it helps to ensure that you have the basics down before trying to learn something new.