Unacknowledged subtext in fill pricing

We just lost one of our biggest assets in the Seattle area, as Sound Aquatics shut down and the owner moved to California. As I was thinking about what we have lost, and why I mourn it, one of the biggest things I identified was that, with SA, you paid for the gas you used.

This is not uncommon in technical shops, but in my experience, it is almost unheard of in recreational dive stores. In most places, if you bring a tank in to get a 500 psi top-off, you will pay the same as if you had brought the tank back with 100 psi in it. Since fills are a significant part of the budget of a shore diver, this quickly results in the diver learning to use as much gas out of the tank as possible, before bringing it in for a fill.

Is this what we want in the water? I personally like to have a lot of gas I have no intention of using -- that way, if I do run into a problem, I've got tons of time to solve it, and I have a lot of gas to share with someone who may be highly stressed, no matter where we are. If I'm trying to empty a tank before filling it, there is going to be a dive (or more) where those reserves have been shaved. Is this what we want to encourage?

Why don't shops adopt a policy of a flat fee for a "fill charge" (to cover personnel time and overhead on the equipment) and then charge by the cf for what is put in the tank? That would ENCOURAGE divers to bring the tank back half full, instead of empty; I think it would enhance safety. Anybody here with a shop who can comment on why you wouldn't or couldn't do that?

Some shops partial pressure blend and don't have oxygen boosters, which is an excuse, but also a reason to upgrade a fill station!

Here in California, you're right. The local shops charge full pop no matter how much they fill. Fill cards are used here for frequent shore and small boat divers. The card offers a slight discount but has to be paid up front. Like you, I prefer a full tank at all times so I'm prepared for what may arise during a dive. You pose a good question about policy and one that I'll ask from our local shop. I'm interested in knowing their response. I'll post what I find out. ~ R

I understand the issues for shops which do partial pressure nitrox fills. But most shops charge the same way for simple air fills.

My dive shop looses money on each fill. Or that is what they tell me. don't think it would go over well if I asked them to discount some fills if the tank is brought in partially filled. They would go out of business too..

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7154248


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Depending on how the pricing went, it might have the opposite effect, especially for air fills.

If the fixed fee is large compared to the cost for the air, a diver might be more likely to wait until he needs nearly a full cylinder before plunking down his dough.

I pay the same for filling a pony as I do for a regular tank. I think the air is a small portion of the shop's investment including the equipment, upkeep, air testing, electricity, heat/AC, rent, labor, etc. It's kind of like the difference between buying vegetables by the pound or by the unit. At some places, a small pepper costs as much as a large one because the costs of getting it to you is relatively the same, regardless of the relative size.

Goodness, how much are you folks paying to have an AL80 filled with air? It's only $7 at the shop I teach through.

The cost is handling the tank... If they put in 1000 psi or 2500 psi it the same cost really... Time is only a few minutes longer ... I fill at the local fire department and pay 6 bucks per cylinder... 40cf pony, 72cf steel or al 80.... If I have a cylinder with 1000 / 1500 psi I'll sling it side mount and use it down to 200 psi...

But I'm a old J-valve diver and sucked many a tank dry...:shocked2:

Jim...