Serious crime statistics for the bay islands

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laurenceh

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Location
utila & chicago
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i had to post this.
i seem to read uninformed, exaggerated forum posts mentioning murders etc. every other week here and on other online forums pertaining to roatan and the bay islands.
people seem to be confusing the problems of mainland honduras with the facts re. the bay islands.

eg. robint comment yesterday that its "too dangerous to leave your hotel on roatan".

i have no business' or investments on roatan to protect (i have a home on utila) but i still feel its necessary for someone to clear up the constant misconceptions passing for fact online. here are the latest statistics:-

2013 murder rates in the caribbean

u.s. virgin islands 39 murders per 100k of population
trinidad & tobago 35
belize 30
bahamas 27
puerto rico 26
dominican repub 25
st. lucia 25
dominica 22

in 2013 the bay islands had 18 murders (roatan 16, utila 1, guanaja 1) with a combined islands population of 100,000+/-5%. so

bay islands 18 murders per 100k of population

the bay islands murder rate is less than half of that in the u.s. virgin islands and less than all of those above. its also lower than several cities in the u.s.a. (chicago, baltimore etc. etc.).

crime is on the rise (especially petty theft), the police do a lousy job at catching thieves and people in the bay islands are very concerned about it but lets put it in context with other places we divers visit.
 
trinidad & tobago 35
belize 30

.... very concerned about it but lets put it in context with other places we divers visit.

Even the statistics you show above are perverted.

Trinidad & Tobago is a country that consists of the two named islands.
They are night and day, worlds apart. Trinidad is a rat hole with no diving and high crime rates. Tobago, the island 30 miles away, is for diving and sleeping.

Belize is a Central American mainland country that has many offshore cays. (See above Trinidad reference for similar comparison of distinctions)

Yet, statistically, they are lumped together. Pure nonsense.

The internet itself is a haven for a bad combination: Potential travelers who are predisposed to xenophobia + those who answer enjoying the opportunity to display their "knowledge" of the inherent local dangers.

Maybe 35 years ago, DEMA (that meant PADI) did research and discovered that people who might want SCUBA were not being drawn in by the constant drum-beat of safety, reassuring safety. They found that the target market enjoyed being a bit scared. The movie Jaws got 50x more people diving than Jacques ever did. We, as a group, like to be a bit scared.

After reading Trip Advisor or Cruise Critic, I'm surprised that anyone ever leaves their home these days, although the institutionalized censorship on those message boards eliminates the worst ranting of the paranoids.

Last night on the Emmy Awards, the Great Race producer accepted their 10th award and made the statement, "the world is a much safer place than many are led to believe".

Goofy TV show, excellent commentary.
 
Once again, you took my comments out of context. The OP, rossandmaureen, mentioned they were looking for a place LIKE Cozumel where you can wander the streets AT NIGHT. Having been to BOTH several times (9 times to Cozumel as a matter of fact), I can say I know what they are talking about. Cozumel is safe at night, safe to wander around downtown, in fact I find the whole island safer than most places I have visited even here in USA.
But Roatan is an island that has a huge economic divide.... there are the very rich, and the very very poor. Not much in between. The poverty on that island is jawdropping for most Americans. Third-World Country? Yes. Walking around on the island AFTER DARK, EXPLORING? NO way would I do it. And no way I would recommend it to someone who was looking for a place like Cozumel.

MY OPINION.... I don't need to READ STATISTICS as I have experience.
So go call names at someone else.


robin
 
Coz always felt safe at night
 
RobinT 's perspective is quite understandable, as well. She and I often dive from the same resort on Roatan .... CCV. Would I be afraid to stay somewhere else? No, I would not be "afraid", but at the property that we prefer, there is absolutely zero concern.

There is a real distinction between "fear of everything" versus limiting your exposure to risk factors.

There isn't much to recommend on Roatan other than diving. The only other real attraction is drinking. A lot if visitors enjoy that, but I prefer to dive while in Roatan and drink when I'm back home where I can not dive. The lure of The West End restaurants I also do understand, but if any of these establishments were in the US, they'd be out of business in months. Nothing all that remarkable, even for the long standing island up-scale restaurants such as Geos, etc. Back in the US, it would be one of those old neighborhood places that locals supported as they did their weekly dinner with cocktails, Lincoln Continentals parked outside.

I really don't see any Island Culture available to the casual Roatan visitor. Now, I do understand that is usually "code" for bars with Jimmy Bufet music or geographically misplaced Reggae Music, so once you get to admitting that (it's no crime), then you tend to adjust your focus on what you came for.

The decision tree for Caribbean dive travel might include:
#1 > I want diving and access to party scene
#2 > I want diving and nothing else

If your selection is #1, you need to locate near the party scene, which on Roatan means West End / West Bay Area.

This means that by definition, you will be proximate to factors that can increase risk and likely exposure to excitement of various varieties. Your call, anywhere you may vacation.

If you are strictly dive focused (#2), you will likely pick other physical Roatan locales for basing your trip. It would be an AI, none of which are in West End. (Although AKR is an quick & easy cab ride away). The added benefit is that it's quiet at night, there are no drunk tourists, and this mathematically decreases the incidence of potential crime. Undeniable.

Tobago is a great example. You can stay on the South end population center near the airport and cruise ship port. Lots of day dive ops, get your 2 dives a day, hear real deal steel drum music, party like a madman, and quite possibly you'll see lots of "interesting activities", if you will.

On Tobago's North End, that's where people go for 4 dives a day, and then maybe go to a local shack for a Caribe Beer. No noise, no hustle, no attraction for rough trade. More my style.

We all expose ourselves to bad outcomes the minute we leave our bed, our home, our neighborhood. The idea (for me, and likely RobinT) is to limit our time spent in those obvious areas that may attract an undesirable crowd.

I am the ultimate weenie-boy adventure traveller.
I studiously avoid:
-non tourist zones/non tourist hours
-bars and drinking
-local women
-drugs and drug zones
-local residents who act like my new best friend


Is the West End of Roatan a dangerous place? For a tourist doing touristy things, not getting drunk, not associating with unknown people who may indeed be of criminal background? No, West End is quite safe.

You just don't have to think like that if you're not in the midst of that environment. There's nothing there I need. Thus,
I prefer not thinking.
 
I am the ultimate weenie-boy adventure traveller.
I studiously avoid:
-non tourist zones/non tourist hours
-bars and drinking
-local women
-drugs and drug zones
-local residents who act like my new best friend

Love it! Now that ought to be page 1 in some traveler's guides. It seems to me it is also important to consider the kind of serious crime, because as Doc's listing alluded to, there are different kinds of crime and that impacts the risk it poses. The main crime types I'd be concerned about when traveling (or in a local population center in the U.S.) are these:

1.) Mugging/Armed Robbery. The could in theory happen and put me &/or loved ones in imminent peril. Could be anything from wallet to rental auto theft.
2.) Breaking & Entering at a resort/hotel room - same issue.
3.) Stranger Rape. I'd think this is what many women would be concerned about.
4.) Pick Pockets.
5.) Stranger homicide - such as to eliminate witnesses to a crime. But that ups the ante' from theft to murder, should trigger a stronger law enforcement response, and killing tourists is bad for business on a tourism-dependent island.

Adding the word 'stranger' would cut the numbers for rape & homicide down.

My point is, if you want to gauge how dangerous a place is for tourists who stay out of bars and don't hit on the local women, room break ins, mugging/armed robberies (and perhaps pick pocketing) and stranger rape seem to be the major concerns.

Are these frequent issues on the Bay Islands for tourists?

Richard.
 
Are these frequent issues on the Bay Islands for tourists?

No, not yet, they are not.

But the infrequency of an occurrence is not always proportionate to internet reportage.

Possibilities versus probabilities.
 
You have to admit that statistically you can't compare 100,000K population measurements as an apples to apples comparison.

18 murders per 100,000 of a country or location of 100,000 people is not the same as 18 murders per 100,000 of a country of location of 300,000,000 people.

It's just like saying 18 murders per million when one of the samples is adding up 100 small towns of 10,000 people vs 18 per million when measured against a big city of 16 million people. The smaller the community generally the crime rates are lower. Big cities of millions of people are different than an island of 100,000 people. There is a much different element of crime that can get lost in a huge population center than can't operate in a small town or small island. There should naturally be a disproportionate ratio between them just for normalization.

Also the whole murder comparison doesn't paint a tourists experience anyways. There are lots of lesser crimes that could be out of proportion to the murder rate. You could have similar murder rates but way different violent crime rates, rape rates, petty crime rates, burglary rates, hate crime rates etc...

It's funny that in the Cozumel forum the coz lovers are in total denial that anything bad or negative can ever be talked about or reported in Cozumel and in the Roatan forum it's the same way about Roatan, in the Belize forum it's the same way about Belize or the blue hole. The cheerleaders in each forum act the same way, they have to come to the defense of their beloved place and defend it no matter how illogical the defense may be. Another common factor I see is the cheerleaders usually mostly or purely only visit the single place they cheerlead, while those with a broader and more realistic view point usually have a broader travel itinerary too.

Statistics or not, the tourist only has to compare that hotels are protected in Roatan with armed guards wielding visible fire arms such as shot guns etc... properties in Cozumel are not. Its a common warning not to walk the path between West Bay Beach and West End at night or you run the risk of being robbed. There is no such warnings anywhere in Cozumel. There are relatively safer areas in both places and less safer places in both places, but overall the feeling of which one has more risks to the tourists? It's definitely Roatan out of the two. I've walked the dark back streets of Cozumel at 1 in the morning with no fears, no way in hell I'd be doing that in Coxen hole or a lot of other places in Roatan. I've rented a car and drove over just about every square foot of Cozumel and never been worried. I've rented a car in Roatan and drove a lot of lonely dirt roads around about 1/2 of the western portion of the island and there were times it made me nervous. They are definitely two very different places in regard to this subject. You can have a safe and fun vacation in both places, but I certainly am on guard about myself a lot more in Roatan and keep more precautions in mind to avoid any trouble.
 
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I ain't skeered. We're headed down next month. I'll be diligent about our security but aren't too worried about it. We won't be getting drunk in bars, won't be buying/doing coke, won't be promiscuous (with strangers) and will generally act right. We won't be at an AI but we will be staying at a rental.

I've looked for and found trouble in many places in the US when I wore a younger man's clothes. Appropriate behavior goes a long way in staying out of trouble...it can find anyone though. Here at home I carry a .45...it doesn't go so well underwater so I won't be bringing it along. Dallas, like many places in the US have a crime problem yet people continue to move here.
 
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