Equipment for Ice diving

A few years ago, I did an ice diving course.

I remember the safety and the rope signals. What I cannot remember is the required gear above and beyond normal scuba gear.
I remember being given a pony bottle, and using a rope with a carabener.

I haven't done any ice diving since then, but will be getting back into it.

What gear, besides the normal gear is needed?

swimmer_spe:

... What gear, besides the normal gear is needed?

Click to expand...

I will only ice dive with a team that puts one diver on a tether at a time and has a backup diver suited up and ready on the surface with his/her tender.

Given that, the single piece of additional equipment that will improve your dive experience is a proper harness. They aren't expensive: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/public-safety-divers/475637-tethering-policy-4.html#post7151155

For just plain fun, get a good set of retractable point ice picks. Little things you hold in your hands and have a wrist pouch for stowing. If you go that route, post it and I'll give you the details.

Have fun.

A good husky always comes in handy...

HUSQVARNA 450 - Chainsaws

Don't forget a good supply of 2 stroke lube.

Internal yes, but: No bar lubricant! (I know you know that) Not needed for cutting ice and it gums/rots latex.

Ideally, you get a dedicated ice chainsaw that never sees bar lubricant. Rare bird...

lowviz:

I will only ice dive with a team that puts one diver on a tether at a time and has a backup diver suited up and ready on the surface with his/her tender.

Given that, the single piece of additional equipment that will improve your dive experience is a proper harness. They aren't expensive: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/public-safety-divers/475637-tethering-policy-4.html#post7151155

For just plain fun, get a good set of retractable point ice picks. Little things you hold in your hands and have a wrist pouch for stowing. If you go that route, post it and I'll give you the details.

Have fun.

Click to expand...

I'll be doing the PADI Ice course this winter. The tender I fully understand, but what means "...puts one diver on a tether at a time..."? I assume you mean EACH diver in a buddy system has his own tether, not that you insist on diving solo?

Thanks...

I wouldn't use a chainsaw, even a dedicated one. Instead:

1) One foldable manual ice drill - the type used by winter fishers. A proper one will cut the hole in 5-10 seconds. Hole diameter 3-4 inches
2) A proper manual ice saw. The el cheapo ones are frustating and you'll get soaked in sweat using them. A proper ice saw will cost you 200-400 ($/&#8364 but will cut through ice almost as fast as a chain saw. The difference is huge.
3) Timber tongs
4) A shovel for clearing the small bits

The idea is to cut one side of 7x7x7 foot triangle and then continue cutting smaller blocks of ice until you have the full triangle. The size of the smaller blocks depends on your gear to shift/lift the blocks and thickness of ice. We usually cut blocks that are 1-2 feet square.

If you do the job properly, you are supposed to LIFT the blocks out of the water and place them 3-4 feet away. They'll freeze quite soon and become convenient benches and fastening points for tethering and safety ropes.

The blocks will be quite heavy. I have noticed that drilling an additional hole in the middle of them (before sawing off) and then using timber tongs will ease the job a lot.

Here is a sample of preparing and executing an ice dive using cave diving technique:
[video=youtube;XMidNBjSSmU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMidNBjSSmU[/video]

Here is a sample of an ice saw:
[video=youtube;saVVYdsvR2U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saVVYdsvR2U[/video]

and a second sample by a Russian customer using Finnish products:
[video=youtube;ZjTVyOtN2Uw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjTVyOtN2Uw[/video]

swimmer_spe:

A few years ago, I did an ice diving course.

I remember the safety and the rope signals. What I cannot remember is the required gear above and beyond normal scuba gear.
I remember being given a pony bottle, and using a rope with a carabener.

I haven't done any ice diving since then, but will be getting back into it.

What gear, besides the normal gear is needed?

Click to expand...

I did IANTD ice so I'm not sure how what you learned differs from what we learned.

In IANTD the area under the ice is viewed more or less as a large cave so you should be set up like you're diving in a cave. This means fully redundant gear, rule of thirds, redundant lights, contingency, the whole shebang.

We don't use ropes to the surface any more than cave divers would do. We lay out guide lines with one diver laying line and the others following. In order to secure the line on the bottom of the ice sheet we use the same titanium glacier anchors that climbers use. For the rest it's just diving with the proviso that you adhere strictly to line protocol.

ON the surface, we use snow shovels to make converging lines that all let back to the entry. These extend for some distance and would give a diver who had somehow gotten lost a visual clue which way to go. The form of the lines we make on the ice are like this


----------->>>>---------->>>>-------->>>>


Showing which way to go. Under the ice these actually show up very well.

Finally, we pick a point in a certain compass direction to make a second entry and more converging lines. So say we're 100m off shore. We pick the shoreline 100m away and make a 2nd exit along the shore line and mark that on the surface as well. A diver who had totally lost his/her way can then swim on the compass to the shore line and follow the shore line in shallow water (for conservation of air) in order to find the 2nd exit.

That said, I've also followed a PADI ice course that a friend was giving.

what I saw there was

a) no marking the surface
b) no secondary exit
c) limited redundancy
d) use of ropes and a bunch of signals you need to remember
e) maximum mobility of 50m

I was already not a fan.

Depending on your view of how good the stitching is on the D-rings attached to your BCD you can use a carabiner to clip the rope onto your kit. Me? I tied the mofo around my middle because of the spooky idea of hearing *CLACK* and seeing your D-Ring and your beanstalk back to the real world disappearing into the dark.

All in all, I'll take the IANTD approach any day. Control is in the diver's hand and contingency is a clear part of planning.

R..

The recreational courses tend to be a tethered diver course where the surface support is the buddy of last resort to drag you out. If you take the cave approach like Ro Turner it is (IMHO) much safer and also better. A fully redundant gas source like a pony is the extra equipment. Whether you rope to the surface or use a cave style guide line the diver should be able to self rescue. A freeflow is a distinct possibility due to regulator icing. Ensure the reg is coldwater suitable and if needed is suitably prepared (for example filling with silicone grease if not a sealed unit). Some agencies do not insist on a redundant gas source - this is madness in my view. Your pony or doubles backup should be coldwater suitable too of course.

I have only ever dived the inland lakes and as such often with light ice 10mm (half an inch) on top. You cannot go out on thin ice like that to make the secondary markings Ro is talking about. Also if things really turn bad you can follow the slope of the lake bed to the shore and stand up smashing through the ice.

If I were organising a dive on thick ice I would be tempted to utilise a small drop tank with a strobe on it dropped down from the hole - that way you can see the strobe and the tank and thus where the exit is. I'm keen one day to have a go at this but it doesn't freeze hard enough anywhere I can get to to try it.

There are lots of books about ice diving. I have this one - Ice Diving Operations by Walt Hendrick, Andrea Zaferes: Fire Engineering Books 9780878148431 - Goodwill Industries of Denver It is pretty scathing of the recreational courses. A lot of very good information is in the book, but it is written from a firefighter viewpoint so not all of it is relevant. Worth buying if you can get a copy.

---------- Post added November 14th, 2014 at 02:40 PM ----------

CGE925:

I'll be doing the PADI Ice course this winter. The tender I fully understand, but what means "...puts one diver on a tether at a time..."? I assume you mean EACH diver in a buddy system has his own tether, not that you insist on diving solo?

Thanks...

Click to expand...

Two divers roped to the surface? Sounds like a knitting pattern

Do the IANTD course.

chrisch:

I have only ever dived the inland lakes and as such often with light ice 10mm (half an inch) on top. You cannot go out on thin ice like that to make the secondary markings Ro is talking about. Also if things really turn bad you can follow the slope of the lake bed to the shore and stand up smashing through the ice.

Click to expand...

IMO a perfectly acceptable contingency procedure in this case. The main idea is still to know which way to go.

If I were organising a dive on thick ice I would be tempted to utilise a small drop tank with a strobe on it dropped down from the hole - that way you can see the strobe and the tank and thus where the exit is. I'm keen one day to have a go at this but it doesn't freeze hard enough anywhere I can get to to try it.

Click to expand...

I guess this depends on conditions. I don't see much utility for this unless the dive involves a planned deco obligation. When we are North Sea wreck diving we do this every time because the dives are usually (almost always) deco dives and the ascent will be along a predetermined line. Therefore it's possible to predict where the gas needs to be.

For an ice dive I would rather have divers carry the contingency gas on their person in the form of a stage cylinder. The risk in ice diving is not the delay (as it is with wreck diving) the risk in ice diving is getting lost.... and when you're lost.... you want the diver to have his contingency gas on his/her person.

R..

CGE925:

"...puts one diver on a tether at a time..."? I assume you mean EACH diver in a buddy system has his own tether, not that you insist on diving solo?. ...

Click to expand...

Yes, each team consists of a single diver on a tether and a tender that can directly communicate with the diver using rope pulls. For the record, and in truth: I would never, ever solo under the ice. There is a good book on diving accidents that cover a couple of ice fatalities, read it years ago. Someone will remember the title, escapes me at the moment.

It is common (and acceptable) practice to put two divers on a single tether to get more people under the ice. This is often done in the bigger certification classes.

In your course: Be suited up and ready to go in as soon as you can. Those that are ready tend to get called first while everyone else is wondering if this is such a good idea after all. The visibility is often amazing before everything gets stirred up. Don't hit or fin the bottom, ruins it for everyone, including you.

Have fun.