Has anyone gone through the legal process to own a wreck? I know I have to find her first, but I would like to have ownership rights over the state and govt.
Wreck ownership
- Thread starter Jared0425
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I'm certainly not an expert, but from what I recall, this is a very convoluted and inconsistent area of law - maritime law, international law, and military law. Ownership of military wrecks is by the government of the country under which the ship was flagged, even if this has changed (i.e. U-boats are owned by Germany even though there is a new government). But even here there are apparently conflicting claims, with some wrecks being considered prizes of war by the country that sank them (history is written by the winners!).
Many wrecks are considered property of the insurance company that paid the owner of the ship for their losses (cargo and ship may be covered separately). This can be the case even after many years have passed, but in some countries this claim can eventually expire. Google the story of the Atocha wreck off Florida for an example of this topic.
But the bottom line is that simply finding or salvaging a shipwreck does not automatically result in legal ownership of the wreck or cargo. It really depends on the details of the wreck and in which country's territorial waters it is found.
I am far from an expert in US law, but my simplified understanding is that the wrecks is either owned by the original owner, the insurance company or the government, there is examples of people and companies that have bought wrecks from insurance companies. The only way to get a wreck for "cheap" is to find a undiscovered wreck that is so old that the original owner, the insurance company and their heirs is gone, but not so old that the wreck is considered historical significant, and even then there will be a long and costly process of establishing provenance and ownership. Owning the salvage rights of a ship is an another unrelated concept, private and government owners of a wreck can grant you / sell you the salvage rights.
As far as I know you can't own a wreck, although there is a process by which private parties can gain salvage rights to derelict wrecks in international waters.
Generally speaking, the process goes something like this:
1) When a wreck sinks, the boat and the cargo both have owners and teh boat and cargo are usually both insured.
2) Any of these 4 parties will have salvage rights and formal ownership at various points in the process of deciding what to do.
3) After a period of time, the 4 parties can be put under pressure to "piss or get off the pot" and if they don't salvage the wreck within a certain period of time it defaults to "derelict" status
4) Derelict wrecks within the international waters of most countries default legal ownership to the government. Acquiring salvage right or even the right to dive on it, is a question of addressing the appropriate authorities.
5) In international waters the process of acquiring salvage rights, IIRC, involves finding and positively identifying the wreck and then salvaging something that can be used to verify its identity. This is how Premier Exhibitions, for example, came to be in possession of the salvage rights to the Titanic.
6) Wrecks of war vessels have a special status because many countries define them as grave sites as well as wrecks. Ownership generally defaults to the responsible government regardless of location and because of the grave status there are other laws that apply to salvage.
7) Similarly, wrecks with special archaeological value can be protected
8) and to make the picture complete, if you find a wreck with anything valuable on it, be prepared to fight endlessly in court about it. Greed is a strong motivator and because the laws about salvage are open to interpretation anyone (including governments) who think they can get a piece of the salvage with be all over you like buzzards on carrion.
Note that this is a general picture and there are many regional differences.
R..
Not always endlessly. The Black Swan project is a good example of this sort of trouble. I heard a presentation from the Odyssey Marine Exploration people a few years ago about this. The Spanish government was able to successfully litigate a claim on treasure from the Mercedes shipwreck from 1804. Half a billion dollars is a pretty good incentive!
oldschoolto
Contributor
Find it.....Keep your mouth shut.... Dive it....Keeping your mouth shut.... Take what you can.... Keep your mouth shut...
Jim...
Jim...
Find it.....Keep your mouth shut.... Dive it....Keeping your mouth shut.... Take what you can.... Keep your mouth shut...
Jim...
There was a case a couple of years ago where divers did this and IIRC got nailed with some kind of felony theft charges when the salvage was discovered. If you take this advice then do so at your own risk.
R..
I'm not endorsing this advice, but if they were caught it seems like at least one of them didn't keep their mouth shut. My only advice is that if you do something with another person it's not a secret.
oldschoolto
Contributor
I'm from the old school of northeast wreck diving... We would salvage and take artifacts at will... No one cared... Then Mel Fisher found the Atocha and every Tom , Dick and Harry came out of the woodwork to " Claim " ownership... Now every State and Federal government thinks it's all theirs.. The state of Maine has gone so far as to lay claim to " ALL " sunken logs in the state.... I'd be damned to do all the work and then have to fight to keep it.. And at best get 30% - 40% 
Jim...
I'd be damned to do all the work and then have to fight to keep it.. And at best get 30% - 40% Jim...
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