Dive knife recommandations?

[SlyDog]

Hey everybody. This is my first post on this board and I am a relativlely new diver. I have all my own equipment except a dive knife so I am curious as what to get ?? Any suggestions of any that aren't to pricey? Thanks in advance!

[Zellet]

My dad recomends getting EMT shears or the Sea Snips. They cut most everything with only one hand, and cost only about 12 dollars. I like the Ocean Master Titanium knife myself.

[Dee]

I like shears better than a knife. But if you get a knife, get a smaller one to mount on your BC that can be accessed and used with one hand. You really don't need those big machete sized ones! They are more of a tangle hazard than anything else.

Just my .02

Oh yea.....Welcome to the pond!

[Fishkiller]

Originally posted by Zellet
My dad recomends getting EMT shears or the Sea Snips. They cut most everything with only one hand, and cost only about 12 dollars. I like the Ocean Master Titanium knife myself.

Greetings nice to have you aboard the SCUBABOARD.
I just wanted to second my comments.

[Rick Murchison]

I carry both scissors and a knife. I prefer a small blunt tip knife mounted on the BC. Rather than EMT shears I carry heavy duty fishing shears - stainless by Fiskers.
Sometimes I carry my old USD 7" blade pig-sticker on the inside of my left calf - just for old time's sake :)
Rick

[Mike M]

Welcome to the board.

I use the Remora by UK. It is a small knife that can attach to your BC or any hose. I have mine attached to my low pressure inflator hose. It is always in sight, so I don't have to feel around to find it.

Mike M

[GP]

I have a small blunt tip Wenoka Squeeze Lock knife mounted on my BC and am getting a set of shears too.

[Walter]

SlyDog, there is merit to what you have been told, but without knowing your plans it is impossible to answer your question. Are you planning to swim reefs and sight see? Are you planning to dive ponds where trash has been dumped? Are you diving where lots of fishing takes place? Are you planning to spearfish? Each of those situations require different configurations. The right way for one is not the right way for another. Shears or a small blunt dull knife with a sharp line cutter is fine for most situations, but a large sharp knife is frequently needed when hunting.

DSSW,

WWW™

[Uncle Pug]

Greetings Slydog...and welcome...

You don't need a big expensive knife for most diving....

A small ss paring knife kept sharp and with the point ground off works great for sharpening pencils and cutting line. I keep mine in a small scabbard on my waist strap... friction fit.

EMT shears can be clipped on in a pocket using a ss double end barrel clip.... shove a piece of tubing over the blades to keep them together and protect your suit.... shears work great for cutting SS downrigger line.

A fillet knife is good to take along if you are cutting Rock Scallops.

[blacknet]

Hello,


A wise man once said if you want to keep anything from rusting/corroding then keep it OUT of saltwater! ;)

The key to any cutting edge for diving is the material used. I.e. if you want a razor sharp edge then your forced to have higher concentrations of carbon, as we all know carbon is very easily broken down by saltwater. (quick test: drop a razor blade in salt water for a few mins., remove it and look at it the next day)

The secret is the right mixture of materials for the job at hand. I.e. sheers tends to have high amounts of carbon so they rust easily. Especially in the rivot. These titanium dive knives have problems keeping a good sharp edge (hence the word SHARP)

I have discovered that for my applications it is best to use a mixture of the two :) I mostly use mine to cut fishing line, webbing (i.e. cut my buddies bc/wetsuit/weight belt/etc) and rope. I bought a pair of sheers, and a buck tiburon. http://www.buckknives.com/products/details.php?ID=33 The interesting side to the tiburon is not just the metal but it has no classic handle, it's just a skeleton. Hence EASY to clean.

Another factor that comes into play is the tensile strength of the blade. I.e. use for prying or stabing?

Cleaning is another factor to consider. Do you want something that's high maintance or something you can neglect? Typicaly the higher carbon the more maintance you must do.

In short the trade offs are this:

High edge retention = high maintance and easily corroded/rusted
Low edge retention = low maintance and almost impossible to keep a good sharp edge

Low corrosion/rusting = hard to keep/hold an edge
High corrosion/rusting = very easy to keep/hold an edge

Hard blade = easily chiped/broken
Soft blade = easily bent

In order to get a perfect diving knife you need to answer all the above questions and what will you be using it for.

Hope this helps.

Ed

[Uncle Pug]

I hate to be repetitious....
Well... truthfully...no.... I really like it.....

Commercial quality kitchen utensiles have all of the above characteristics in the optimum balance....

My little paring knife will still shave the hair off the back of your hand and is not rusting and will do 99% of what most divers need a knife to do but 0% of what 99% of divers want a knife to do....

Culturally knifes are a status symbol....
If you can get around that one then a $2.95 paring knife really is the ticket....

For the 1% of jobs it is inadequate....
There are other kitchen utensiles that will fill the bill...

Listen to your Uncle....

[blacknet]

Hello,

This is so true. Modern culinary knives are composed of some seriously high tech material that composes of the best of all worlds. A few things to note about these knives. They are not designed for heavy duty prying. As for sharpness it's not really a question of shaving hair. It's a question of cutting the modern high tensile strength fishing line, steel leaders, fishing net, 1" webbing and the like. One good test for sharpness is shave paper. Lay the paper flat on a cutting board and shave it horizontaly. What you'll get is a uniform cut with no holes when the knife is very very sharp. If it's less than idea then you will have holes and gaps appearing. If it's not sharp at all it will rip the paper.

Ed

[Uncle Pug]

Sharp is not for cutting s.s. leaders.....
That is what shears (EMT or otherwise) are for.....

Prying is best done with a.....
What are you prying stuff for!!!!

Anyway prying is best done with a genuine Pry Bar....
If you really gotta pry use the right tool!!!

For wreck robbers there are hammer/chisel/pry tools all rolled into one neat package...

For abalone robbers who haven't figure out how to knock them off the rocks with their fist, there is the Ab Iron....

For rock scallop robbers, best just use the fillet knife to cut the abductor muscle and take only the half shell... no prying necessary....

For oyster robbers.... see wreck robber tool above....

ect....

IF your dive plan involves prying ...take a pry tool... other wise leave the junk at home...
;)

[Scottri]

Don't spend a lot of money on a dive knife, it's the most common piece of gear I find.


Scott

[devjr]

The type of knife is important and as stated by an earlier poster is specific to the diver and his dive plan. A kitchen knife is usually not suitable. A blunt knife with a five inch soft, 300 series SS blade is best for prying scallops and oysters. The steel is non magnetic. They may(rarely) bend but can be straightened later without breaking. The spearfisherman, freediver needs a pointed stilleto for killing big fish. These may be hard to find but Riffe and a few others sell them. If possible, get one made from hard 400 series SS. This steel is magnetic and can be identified with a magnet. If not available, bear in mind that the softer, chromium white 300 steel is hard to sharpen. Common to most 300 steel, the blade can be straightened successfully. Both of these knives can be used to cut line and kelp. Either knife should have one serrated edge for general purposes such as cutting rope. Finally, the stilleto is best for prying and cutting a line which is wrapped around a prop.

[BadFish]

I just carry a two handed sword and a shotgun.

Thats the ticket.

:idea:

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by devjr
Finally, the stilleto is best for prying and cutting a line which is wrapped around a prop.

Try your stilleto on the melted plastic donut formed by nylon or poly that has been friction molded to a prop hub.....

And you will see why Uncle recommends the handy kitchen meat saw...
;)

[devjr]

Digressing here on the subject of fouled props. Aggressive sawing or hacking is dicey and may not be practical in the sometimes tight space afforded. Prop removal may be necessary. Now, back to the subject at hand...

For those on a budget, there is a kitchen knife which some old time spearos used successfully. This is the "sani safe" made by Dexter Russell. This company makes a wide variety of marine grade knives with magnetic SS blades. They will hold an edge and the steel, although thin, is quite springy. The advantage is that one knive can be used for diving purposes and fileting fish. The diver will have to improvise a sheath.

There are many variations, but I carry the knife strapped inside the left calf. Others put them in a custom pocket in their wet suit or use waist belt carry.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by devjr
For those on a budget, there is a kitchen knife which some old time spearos used successfully. This is the "sani safe" made by Dexter Russell...

The diver will have to improvise a sheath....



Thanks for the reminder....
Uncle's gotta go make another sheath....
To go on the harness of my other BP/wing set up....

That way I can switch my knife back and forth without having to switch the sheath....

At $2.95 I don't want to be buying extra knives!!!

BTW the sheath is simply a length of weight belt webbing (2") folded over and sewn to make a belt loop.... The other end is folded up on the opposite side and sewn along the edges. This forms a tight pocket that holds the little curved blade paring knife securely by friction fit.

This knife works great for all line cutting with the exception of steel leaders/cable (use shears.) It also works great for cutting the gills of fish so that they bleed out (better meat that way.) It also works great for sharpening your pencil...which big clunky knives don't do well. It is small on the waist belt and doesn't poke the gut when bending over and unlike a knife strapped to the fore arm or leg, does not pose and entanglement hazard. The little knife also has a paradoxical effect on status....

[ScubaDuke]

What a lot of choices. I would say first off don't spend to much just incase it gets lost, it happens.
Secondly, carry two - knife & shears, 2 knifes, etc. - a backup is always good.

Personally I carry a UK Remora on my lp inflator hose and a larger knife on my leg. Soon the larger knife will be replaced by shears on my BC.

Untill you what your specific needs are go inexpensive but effective.;)

[blacknet]

Hello,

Yea just remember dive knive choices is like underwear choices, there's so many on the market you can go insane. Just keep in mind it all depends on what you want and will be doing.

Ed

[jobowker]

I have a big old sherwood that stays on my right inside calf. (I'm left handed). Smooth blade on one side, serrated on the other, witha line cutter near the handle. It will soon be augmented by a set of emt shears mounted up high. The idea of having a sharp knife near teh hose of my BC (or anywhere near my BC) doesn't appeal to me. That way I will not only have a backup, but shears are better at some things, and knives are better at others. I don't like small knives or cool looking knives with all metal handles - both are too easy for me to drop to the inky depths, most likely when I really need it. If I were to do it over again, the only thing I'd do different is pick a blunt tip knife instead of a pointy one.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by jobowker
the only thing I'd do different is pick a blunt tip knife instead of a pointy one.

For those without a grinder.... there is always ebay :)

[blacknet]

Hello,

When you do any alterations to knives with a grinder, a drill/dremmel or the like you alter the temperament of the blade and thus compromise its lifespan and usefulness. Now if you have the equipment to re-temper the blade by all means.

Ed

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by blacknet
Hello Ed,

When you do any alterations to knives with a grinder, a drill/dremmel or the like you alter the temperament of the blade and thus compromise its lifespan and usefulness. Now if you have the equipment to re-temper the blade by all means.

Ed

Nah....
Only if you do it wrong....
Sounds like you tried it once and did it wrong....

When you grind a knife don't let it get hot enough to change color....
(that blue color Ed.... that was the hardness going out of your knife)

A good way to keep from getting it too hot is to have a can of water nearby and dunk it every so often...

A good way to know when to dunk it is to hold it with bare fingers on the metal.... trust me you'll know...

The above is only if you care!!!
But if you're going to blunt a knife...
Why would you care if the temper goes out of the blunt end???

Now if you really want to get fancy... take a flat bar of SS and grind a knife out of it in the shape you want.... then heat it up with a torch until it gets red hot (don't hold it with your fingers this time) ... then plunge the red hot blade into water... then take and shine it up with sand paper... and then gently heat it again with the torch and watch it changle color... when it is the color of straw quench it again in the water... now sharpen it!!!

I have a stilleto dive knife that I made that way and it is still razor sharp after years of diving....

But it lives in the garage now.... I just used it today to cut some teflon tape....

My little ss paring knife is much more useful and practical....
Especially after I ground off the pointy end...

[blacknet]

Hello,

Again you loose structural integrity of the knife on ANY modifications to the design. Stress fractures, metal fatigue and the like are at an increased risk, not to mention all the special treatment the knife has undergone.

If you do the 1/2 hearted attempt at tempering you have many pitfalls like time, temperature, and material used for temperament. Remember not all temper methods will yield the same results. Plus the chemical treatment used by the manufacture needs to be re-applied. Do yourself and your dive buddy a major favor. Spend the extra $30 for another knife and not attempt this.

You may be viewed as 'cool' and the like but when you trust your life to an object that has been structurally weakened there is nothing 'cool' about it.

Ed

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by blacknet
Hello,
Again you loose structural integrity of the knife on ANY modifications to the design. Stress fractures, metal fatigue and the like are at an increased risk, not to mention all the special treatment the knife has undergone. Ed

You horsin with me here aren't you Ed....
Trolling poor Ole Uncle Pug....

When you heat tempered steel....
(It's called annealing....)
You make it soft not hard....
You make it mallable not brittle....

You may be right about special treatment....
But my little paring knife shows no signs of rust where I ground the pointy end off....
There is a hint of rust further up by the handle....
You don't suppose.....

[Bob]

When hunting I wear a stilletto strapped to my left forearm. I always have a smaller knife that is attached to my BC.:tree:Bob

[blacknet]

Hello,

No i'm not horsing or trolling here. Serious info for a serious topic. BTW I do not take knives lightly. They are instruments of various wonders ;)

All joking aside it's like a loaf of bread, the outter coating is different than the inside. When you cut the loaf you violate the structural integrity unless you put it back and bake the end again. Even then there will be some changes to the loaf as a whole.

Treatment changes by the manufacture, design and batch (not much change by the batch but it does exist) Many companies keep the materials/temps/times (i.e. chemicals and the like) a company trade secret.

Ed

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by blacknet

All joking aside it's like a loaf of bread, the outter coating is different than the inside. When you cut the loaf you violate the structural integrity unless you put it back and bake the end again. Even then there will be some changes to the loaf as a whole.
Ed

Shoot Ed....
Do you mean to tell me that I ruined by $2.95 paring knife!!!!
I hope it stays razor sharp at least a couple more years...
Before drying out and crumbling like an old loaf of bread...
What have I done.... ;-0

[blacknet]

Hello,

LOL that's funny. When I was in high school I would make various blades out of old saw blades. A neighbor had a forge and the setup for temper with chemical baths and the like. It was a very entertaining experience. The whole process is like a gunsmith, it can be done by hand but it's a LONG tedious process and allot of room for errors. Not something I recommend to anyone.

Also we forgot to mention the various places / services that will reharden/retemper the blade for a small fee. Turn around time varies, naturally.

Ed

[Ari]

Will be a small BC knive with ane sharp edge, one jaged edge and a line cutter

Ari :D

[devjr]

What else can I call it? The subject is too complex to give glib answers, and a dialogue drawing in a metallurgist and blacksmith could produce some interesting recommendations. I wouldn't mind seeing such a discussion but I doubt this is the right forum. Yet, practical experience says that the Pug is basically correct. Many of the soft and hard stainless steels can be worked with a grinder giving good results if the temperature is not too high. The steel should not be allowed to get cherry red, but a slight blue corona or patina left on the steel is usually no problem. However, one must be cautious with very thin steel so as to avoid this if possible. To cool the work, alternately dipping the piece in water is as good as any method for small jobs. Besides the obvious, this causes the worker to take a break and examine the work as it progresses. Cutting and milling these steels can be tricky because they "work harden"(surface hardening)and your tool bits will pay a price. Moreover, the worked surface may corrode slightly in salt water due to a phenomenon called crevice corrosion; the tiny abrasions accellerate corrosion.

I'm surprised that Blacknet's friend found it necessary to retemper the sawmill blades. My understanding is that the used blades originally carry a unique temper due to the heat and stress which the blade has undergone. That is, to preserve this structure the blades are cold ground under a water stream. Perhaps there is a need to restore surface hardening at the cutting edge?

In any case, noone should attempt to discourage "do it your selfers". This is part of the challenge of our sport. Mistakes or successes which may result are a useful part of maturing, learning and developing self confidence. Making, modifying or repairing a knife seems to be an ideal way to spend some time in the off hours. Simple precautions should be followed; Never grind soft metals such as aluminum and copper on a wheel. Do not try to taper the ends of spear gun rubber bands on a grinder; if the rubber end gets caught in the wheel, it can pull your hand into the grinder. If your knife blade melts, it's hot enough(G). Wear safety glasses and close fitting gloves when using a grinder.

[reiny13]

I'd recommend, sea snips, along with a small bc or computer mounted blunt tipped knife.

[Arduous]

I agree with Rick, carry both a knife and shears. Actually I carry three. I have a small BC mounted serrated edge knife and an Ocean Master long knife on my leg. I also carry a pair of shears in a utility pocket.

Dive Safe ………………..Arduous

[HERB KING]

I carry a small cheap knife which I attach to my inflate hose. Cheap because I seem to lose them very easily, and small because I cant think of anything that I would do with a large one.
My most treasured cutting utensil is a line cutter that has a razor blade for a cutting edge and can be bought at your local fishing tackle shop for about 8 bucks. And it will cut through most s.s. leaders, I know this all to well. One quick swip and it traps and cuts the line like butter.