Alert Diver does Sports' Illustrated

[watergal]

Anyone seen the Feb. edition of Alert Diver/Skin Diver "dive suit" section and cover. I am usually pretty thick skinned, but I think I am either offended or disgusted--not quite sure which. Especially to have DAN involved. Anyone else?

[Dee]

Yeah... :yuck: disgusted works for me, no matter who is involved.

With the exception of an occasional advertisement in various dive magazines, the industry has thus far resisted such blatant t*ts and a** mentality. I guess the powers that be at DAN and Skin Diver want to attract more testosterone laden, single digit IQ morons who fall victim to that preposperous, little girl come hither look above a lycra clad chest.

I would think it would be the honorable gentlemen divers who think with their large head with the brain in it and who have respect for their female counterparts in diving and themselves that would be offended and insulted by it.

Off my :box: now.

[watergal]

So what do we do about it?

[Natasha]

Hey, I got good money for modeling in that shot!

Seriously, I was quite surprised when my issue just came today. Geez, I guess 911 hit them hard, and they'll try anything to sell magazines. Same excuse I hear all day, so many businesses use everyday.
I don't think there is anything we can do, other then stop buying the magazine.

[Dee]

Originally posted by watergal
So what do we do about it?

First, I'd write to the editor...I'm sure it won't be the only one!

Show your displeasure with your greatest weapon....your money! Don't patronize the companies involved and depending on how strongly you feel, cancel your subscription and tell them exactly why.

[watergal]

I am not paying for any subscriptions other than DAN membership and I still think DAN is an worthy organization. I don't wan't to bite of my nose and DANs nose over this. I guess a letter to the editor is it. And maybe a letter to the sponsors, St. Vincent tourism and maybe letters to other major advertisers in the issue?

[Walter]

I quit subscribing to Skin Diver many, many years ago. I do get it now that it is sent to DAN members FOC.

I have yet to see this issue that has everyone in an uproar, it must be terrible to get such a reaction. MIne will probably arrive today while I'm on the other coast diving.

Keep one thing in mind, this is Skin Diver magazine, DAN has no control over the content.

DSSW,

WWW™

[miked]

Ladies,
As a male, I can't honestly say that I was offended by the pictorial(?) in question- but I do recall flipping right past it, in search of material appropriate to a dive magazine. I recall being disappointed that it was not an article about suit design, materials, etc.
It was the least read segment of the magazine for me. In fact, I paid it so little attention, that I had to recheck the issue after I saw this thread. I don't read dive magazines for fashion(?) advice, and if this was an attempt to increase readership totals, it was ill conceived,an inappropriate for a magazine that is aimed at the diving community.

If you are offended by the pictures, let SD hear about it.
If that magazine purports to be a magazine for divers, hopefully the editors will respect your opinions, as divers.
Good luck,
Mike

[BadFish]

I agree with Mike, i received my issue and didnt really even notice
the cover until i read this thread, then i went back for a better view. It looks to me as if it was an attempt to gain more female reads, not to entice mne. Thats what Maxium is for.

But i am sorry that you are all offended.

[DivingGal]

Offended - not really. I see it as a cheap way of trying to get something. What I'm not sure as as far I as I know the mag is issued to those of us who are DAN members. I looked and sort of said geesh, then ignored it. I'm after the information not the pictures.

[neil]

I was not offended so much as disappointed that SD missed the opportunity to do a classy dive satire on the SI swimsuit issue. All they managed to do was show middling quality photos of models in ill-fitting dive suits. What a waste of time for them. If the mag weren't free, I would not subscribe.

Neil

[blacknet]

Hello,

I am curious if the same people would be complaining if it was a male on the cover rather than a female.

Ed

[Dee]

Originally posted by blacknet
Hello,

I am curious if the same people would be complaining if it was a male on the cover rather than a female.

Ed

Yes I would. I think there's plenty of magazines and other media out there for this kind of advertising. I want information about a product and don't need or want such sexual come-ons to get my attention.

[CGoheen]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't notice the cover of my son's Skin Diving magazine. I just started reading DAN when I gave my son a membership last may. I don't think it's a great magazine, but there seem to be very few even good maganizes for scuba.

It caught my eye, but just like the SI swimsuit issue, I wouldn't buy it for the picture. I read Skin Diver hoping to find some technical information, and test my book learned skills. I'm going to drop them a line and tell them I'd like them to concentrate on what they should be good at and leave the T&A to SI.

[KC_Scubabunny]

I just returned home from being out of town all weekend and found my issue of Skin Diver in my mail box. When I got a look at the cover and had a chance to discuss its poor taste with my husband, I immediately came here to see if anyone else had posted an objection.

Glad to hear that I was not alone. I have a hard enough time trying to convince my female friends to try diving because they know it is a primarly male sport but if they think that the women who do dive look like Victoria's Secret models then they will never try!

Personally I think it is bad for the sport. Particularly since it was not just the cover photo but also the large print banner on the magazine. If it had just been the advertisement pages in the middle then I would have skipped over it an probably been mildly miffed but the idea that this is sitting on newstands everywhere related to the diving community is very poor PR. It reinforces the sterotype that diving is a men's sport and they are focusing on the old boys club.

I agree that we all need to let Skin Diver and St. Vincent know how we feel but I think we should send a message to the dive industry that diving is for all people of all sizes and not just waifs in bikini's.

:bunny: KC_Scubabunny :bunny:

By the way I am 5'7" 130lb size 7 so this is not jealously. It is plain outrage. Okay off soapbox now.

[Natasha]

DivingGal: It is not just free to DAN members. It is being sold in the books stores. I was at Borders Friday night, and it was in with the sports mags.
Ed: LOL I have to say you made me laugh. I would rather see a hunk of a man, if I had to choose between the two. But more then either one, a nice beach to shore dive from, with a diver getting ready to enter, would get my attention.
Who said there isn't that many good dive magazines? I think Advanced Diver is one of the best. UnderCurrent, and Imersed are two more. I even like Dive Training, and Rodales is OK to read on the plane.

[large_diver]

That was the first dive mag I felt I had to hide from my 5 & 7 year old kids.

My overall impression of SkinDiver is that it is just filled with triup reports, pretty pictures and ads (vs. the inclusion of gear reviews and technique discussions in Rodale's for example). This new "pictorial" only reinforced my "fluff" impression of SD.

If it weren't for the free subscription via my DAN membership, I would not renew.

[blacknet]

Hello,

Most of the large dive mags go for that look in submissions. This is nothing new. There are some who doesn't go for that but not many.

Ed

[NetDoc]

in his Gold Lamae??? Actually, I thought most of the pictures pretty sophomoric (I just love words like that) though not overly offensive to my male chauvinistic mind. I am not sure that there is much that can be done to make neoprene "tantalizing"... BTW, anyone got a cool looking flame suit I can put on now???

[CGoheen]

Who said there isn't that many good dive magazine? I think Advanced Diver is one of the best. UnderCurrent, and Imersed are two more. I even like Dive Training, and Rodales is OK to read on the plane.

Haven't seen the first three magazines you've mentioned. I live in a fairly metropolitan area (fairfax county population is 1 million plus) and they don't show up at the bookstores, magazine stands or libraries. I'll go search them out. Thanks.

[Dee]

Apparently DAN didn't appreciate the cover of Skin Diver either. Here's their response....

An Open Letter to Alert Diver Readers Regarding Skin Diver Magazine

Dear All Alert Diver Readers:

Thank you very much for your recent communication concerning Skin Diver magazine. We were also, as were many of our members, taken completely by surprise by the type of cover and content of the February 2002 issue of Skin Diver. As you may remember from the January 2001 Alert Diver editorial announcing the agreement between Skin Diver and DAN, Skin Diver was to provide a subscription to their magazine to each of our members, but neither party (DAN nor Skin Diver) had any editorial control over the material in each other's magazine. However, we too found the cover to be in very bad taste and decided this cannot be allowed to continue.

We therefore immediately contacted the publisher of Skin Diver expressing, in the strongest terms, our concern. We explained that the cover and content were totally inappropriate. The publisher of Skin Diver assured us that this was not a new direction Skin Diver was taking and that it was simply an attempt to compete with other magazines on the newsstand.

We expressed to the publisher that what Skin Diver does on the newsstand may be their business, but when their magazine goes to our members, it is our business too. As a result, they have now agreed to allow DAN to review the cover and content of the Alert Diver edition of Skin Diver. Should there be any concern, the cover will be replaced and the offending material will be removed before publication.

We apologize for the problems this has created, but we assure you that Skin Diver now understands that we will not tolerate material going to our members that is in such poor taste.

Thank you again for your much appreciated comments.


Peter B. Bennett, Ph.D., D.Sc.
President / CEO
Divers Alert Network


Dan Orr
Executive Vice President / COO
Divers Alert Network

DAN's article (http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=137)

[Natasha]

Wow Dee! Good work. Glad Dan had the right thing to say. And glad they listened.

[watergal]

Thanks, Dee!

What a great response! It is nice to have this nipped in the bud. It is so nice to have a physical activity where men and women can participate on an equal level and dive as partners with the water reducing inherent strength differences; I just hate the idea of women thrown into the role of eye candy.

I think that was what bothered me about Blacknet's question because my answer is yes, I would be complaining, but it would not be as loudly or for the same reasons. I would put pelvis-thrusting guys in Speedos in the same category as articles on tank bangers and $70 snorkles--silly, of no interest, vaugely insulting that someone thinks I might like that, but not alarming or offensive. The difference is that had the consensus has been that this is an ok way to portray lady divers, and this is what guys should want their buddies to be like (ads are supposed to portray what the consumer wants, yes?) then lady divers are at risk of being trivialized and when we are really equal to, and infact have some physiological advantages over men in the water, I found that scary.


And thanks to the guys who added that they found the section useless and skipped it. Now THAT should get the advertisers' attention if nothing else does!


This really is a great board

[Iguana Don]

I am shocked and dsgusted.

[Walter]

I received my issue of Skin Diver today. I did not find it offensive or in bad taste. I did find it eye catching. OTOH, I do not think there is any point to the cover or "article" except to appeal to the baser traits we all have. Sex sells and anyone who's ever read Skin Diver knows they are concerned with selling and not with actual articles. This is not a surprise to me, but let's put it in perspective, there's no nudity or even semi-nudity in the mag, there's no reason to hide it from the kids.

DSSW,

WWW™

[Rick Murchison]

Hmmm... can't see what all the hubub is about. Some of those gals need a few good meals, though.
Rick

[blacknet]

Hello,

In case anyone is wondering.

This is the letter from DAN http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/news/article.asp?newsid=137

This is the cover in question (http://www.scubaboard.com/pics/skincover.jpg)


Ed

[large_diver]

Walter -- don't mean to pick a fight here....

It's not the pictures of models in bathing suits that bother me......it's the pose and look in the eyes of the model on the cover that I don't particularly want my 5 year old daughter emulating. To me this is a subtle but important difference ;-)

[KC_Scubabunny]

I agree with what Walter said "Sex Sells". It is because I agree with this that I have bigger concerns.

I am afraid that Skin Divers off the rack sales will go up this month. I am afraid that people who have never purchased a dive magazine will suddenly see this cover and think to themselves "That diving looks like a good sport to get into" based on the cover model and not a genuine interest in the sport. Even worse would be if other dive magazines followed suit because it worked for Skin Diver.

Another thing that concerns me is that I know that more and more divers are getting into the sport as pre-teens and teens. This is an extremely fragile age in terms of values setting and self image for both boys and girls. I think that this is the wrong message to send to young divers about the sport. Some where there is probably a little Johnnie or Janie Diver who's grandma ordered them a subscription to Skin Diver for Christmas because it was the only dive magazine that was offered through Publishers Clearing House. Imagine the surprise at that house!

The certifying agencies are spending a lot of time and effort to make diving a family friendly sport.

I agree with earlier comments that there was not nudity or obviously R rated material in the magazine but I think those of us who object would have all felt better if the cover pic had been one of the girl walking on the beach in a wetsuit and not a the one that was chosen.

Kudos to DAN for their immediate message. Hopefully they will follow up by either removing their name from future questionable magazines or making sure that it doesn't happen again.

:bunny: KC_Scubabunny :bunny:

[scuba-sass]

Well Said!

Scuba-sass :-)

[Walter]

I'm usually wrong about what will or will not sell, but I'd be surprised if Skin Diver rack sales goes up very much. Those who'd buy the mag because of the "babe" on the cover would probably buy one of several other mags instead.

"I am afraid that people who have never purchased a dive magazine will suddenly see this cover and think to themselves "That diving looks like a good sport to get into" based on the cover model and not a genuine interest in the sport."

People get involved in diving all the time who have no genuine interest in diving. This is usually encouraged. I don't see where this will influence diving at all as it is merely an extension of what is already happening.

"more and more divers are getting into the sport as pre-teens and teens. This is an extremely fragile age in terms of values setting and self image for both boys and girls. I think that this is the wrong message to send to young divers about the sport."

They get this message from many many sources. Seeing it in a dive mag is not going to have a big impact. As parents, it is our responsibility to educate our children about what they will encounter that is positive and negative and how to deal with them.

I do not think there is a place for such material disguised as articles in dive magazines, but I also think there has been a huge
over reaction to a very minor issue.

The only objection I have to the cover is the child appears to be way too young to be posing in a seductive manner. Does that mean I'm old?

DSSW,

WWW™

[Dee]

Looks like my rant sort of set the tone on this one. :( And as Walter so gently pointed out, maybe I did over react just a tad, though he didn't mention my name. But something he also said I think points to my basic objection. There's no reason to have such a young woman posing in such a seductive manner. I don't object as much to the photos in the article, we're all used to the 'sex sells' mentality. It just seems like this particular pose for the cover was in especially bad taste.

After reading the magazine, maybe our comments to DAN should reflect our feelings about the 'Survival Games' contest that is being run.

Then again...maybe I'm just too old?!?!

[Fishkiller]

Originally posted by Dee
After reading the magazine, maybe our comments to DAN should reflect our feelings about the 'Survival Games' contest that is being run.

[CAMPER]

It is obvious to me that most of the people posting on this thread are not in the target audience for this publication. I have not been able to get my teenage sons to read those other diving mags. They read text books all day long, so they say. (their grades don't seem to indicate it) They do read SD as it is somewhat escapist reading, and they do get some information.
My teenage sons weren't impressed with the swim suits, they see much better in their electronic gaming mags, and my wifes fashion mags.

This may seem mean but this type of action does smack a little bit of Taliban type censor. I am thinking of cancelling my Dan membership and writing them a nasty letter. (Just kidding)

[KC_Scubabunny]

Dee- You and I had similar reactions and I am not old. Or at least I don't think I am. I turned 29 last month!

Walter - I am sorry that you think that we overreacted but I do believe that we are entitled to state our opinions in the Women's section of the board. I assume that there is a reason that Women were given their own forum and it is probably because LD and KN knew that we would have our own issues and concerns to address.

After 11 years in the US Air Force working in a maintenance squadron where for many years I was one of a less than 5 women out of 200+ men, I have learned that sometimes you need to express your opinions early because if you wait until it is the status quo then it is darn near impossible to change.

In diving, women like myself express our equality by always carrying our gear and not being depended on our husbands and boyfriends. It is about becoming rescue divers and being able to take care of yourself and your buddy in an emergency. Maybe some of our reaction to this picture and article has been a real reaction to a dive industry that still doesn't seem to "get" women in many ways. It is like the small and pink theory to women's gear. We want to be taken seriously as consumers and divers. We want manufactures and resorts to think of us as people with buying power and decision makers. A magazine cover on a large diving publication like Skin Diver that was so obviously aimed at men gave them more weight as consumers and I for one was insulted.

Maybe I was just reactioning to a society that still has a long way to go because women still make $.76 for every $1 men make in this country.

I would be interested to hear if our international friends have the same feelings.

Okay, I am done. Enough about this cover. Right wrong or indifferent, I think I have said enough.

:bunny: KC_Scubabunny :bunny:

[daylight]

Yes, it is a stupid cover and layout. There isn't much else worth anything in any of their issues.

I bet it was a joke trying to keep those models cooled down in those wetsuits during the shoot. The out- takes would be worth the price of admission. The guy and girl getting amorous on the desk of the boat is the best. Can you imagine them trying to go to the next level and both trying to squirm out of their suits.

This really makes a joke out of the rag and DAN.

Too bad.

[Walter]

KC_Scubabunny,

"I do believe that we are entitled to state our opinions in the Women's section of the board."

I believe you are entitled to state your opinions anywhere! I will defend your right to do so. If you thought I was indicating otherwise, I apologize. That is not the case.

DSSW,

WWW™

[BILLB]

My wife (also a diver) was also displeased over the contents of Skin Diver. DAN is know using this mag to market itself to the beginning OW diver. The competition is stiff with several new insurers on the block!

Did DAN know? Only they can tell and hopefully they will write an editorial in their "good" mag "Alert Diver" and refute the cheesecake.

I rarely find anything in SD that is helpful anyway except for the latest dive accident page.

If you want real, somewhat unbiased diving news subscribe to the "Undercurrent". I have been a subscriber for the last three years and it is the only dive publication that really has something to say. There are othe truely worthy publications out there too.

My suggestion is to write to DAN not SD. DAN has much more to loose than SD.

[Sea Squirt]

Having finally seen the offending cover, I must say I found it fairly inappropriate and found myself wondering exactly what "niche" SD were aiming for...

In Thailand, a lot of emphasis is placed on appearance and social status. If you've got it flaunt it, or even if you don't, flaunt it anyway.

I'm afraid to say that if the girl on the cover was wearing a sack of potatoes, if that look was "in" at the moment, a lot of girls would be out buying it, regardless of whether they actually liked it or not.

Personally if a sack of potatoes would keep me warm and protect me from scrapes and scratches and stingy things in the water, then I would wear one too!

[kelpmermaid]

I, too, think the cover is, well, a crude attempt to attract attention, and here we are all talking about it. There must be red faces at DAN...

[Dafydd]

I hope you know what the effect of complaining could be...
Let me preface my remarks by saying that I have not seen the issue and subscribe to no scuba magazines, and only read the first page of this thread.
Now for a little magazine history that effected a magazine that I was tremendously fond of. I am a photographer, now I spend my days teaching photography in a public high school. There was a magazine that had great articles and truly respect the art of photographers. The magazine would never put "copy" over pictures that were part of articles. Gutter bleeds were avoided. The writing was masterful and insightful. The whole magazine was a great read. But the circulation was small, (for a nationally distributed magazine). The amateur oriented magazines were and are cluttered with bright flashy ads and cheesy articles that are shallow and dull. The reading is aimed at the lazy minded. But those magazines sell. The classy well written "Camera and Darkroom" lost advertisers to the schlock mags that would put in any thing to get the magazine sold. This created a spiral effect and in the end C&DR folded, holding true to the ideals of "photography as visual art to be respected, and literature as art to compliment the images". The magazines were so fine that I collected them when they were being published and keep them to this day.
I'm not saying that the magazine in question here should be let off the hook. If they published something truly offensive to their stalwart readers to attract new readers of a different mentality, then they are in trouble. It would be insane to knock out your foundation to build a second story. On the other hand, if they were trying to liven up there magazine and just went too far, tell them, but don't cut your ties over one mistake. On the other hand, no as Tevia said "there is no other hand".
I just thought it pertinent to point out that scuba magazines are not too plentiful, and to lose one over a single mess up would be a real shame.


Hang In There,
Dafydd
Thinking of eternity and how fun it is...

[fishnerd]

I am a diver mom, and was also offended by the cover. I am glad to see I am not alone. My daughter got certified last year at age 12, my younger daughter will have to wait a few more years. She enjoys the magazine. I certainly don't want her to think diving is about big breasts and eye makeup and false eyelashes (different article, same issue). What about pictures of women marine biologists, or women instructors? I WILL be writing to SD magazine to tell them what I think. I would encourage a writing campain to the magazine. They need to know women divers have voices and brains, not just breasts.

[watergal]

Hi, Fishnerd, and welcome to you and your daughter from another 'fishnerd'. I hope your daughter is going to be a board member as well. The folks in charge put a great deal of time and effort into making sure that the whole family can review and enjoy the posts here.

Dafydd: I agree that it would be a shame to lose a special interest forum because of somthing silly. But I am a lot more concerned about the effect that NOT complaing could have! How else do the powers that be know what we want? I would hope that sensible people would fix the problem and leave the rest.

[kellie]

I also was a bit confused as to the content of the issue. I was not surprised though as SD is mostly fluff and ads anyway.

I was more confused when DAN decided to associate with SD instead of a quality dive publication. I feel Dive Training would have been a better choice.

As for the girls in the ill fitting gear.......they are just models......it was a poor choice for SD. They were worth a laugh. I also only get the mag. as a result of DAN.

The models did need a few meals though! And I bet they were just miserable during that job! Sort of makes me laugh just thinking about sitting around in wet suits all day in the heat. Oh, I am fairly crying!!!!

[Starfish]

My first response was "Oh no not them too! Well Sports Illustrated would be proud," and then I threw it into the recycle bin (normally I would have looked through the magazine though I don't take it's contents too seriously). If it was meant to encourage me to buy SCUBA gear for women as a woman, it didn't.:doctor: Starfish, Ph.D.