GUE vs NSS-CDS

DPS2 · Feb 24, 2002

Hello everyone! I am wanting to start into cave diving this summer and am in the process of looking for some good training. I have been looking at both NSS-CDS and GUE. Just from their web sites, it seems that GUE is much more intense - both in the number of dives as well as the fact that GUE does not offer any sort of intro class such as Cavern diving. Additionally, there seems to be more time spent overall on each level. As with everything, there are good points and bad points for each program. Philosophically, I tend to favor the DIR approach to diving and therefore the GUE curriculum. I would appreciate any views on these programs - good, bad, or indifferent.

Thanks!

ericfine50 · Feb 24, 2002

First off, you gotta go with a really good instructor. I took my class from Terrence Tysall, who is an NSS-CDS guy. Very demanding - I would say he would be like a GUE style instructor. You pass when you master all the skills 100%. Right now, I would look more towards the GUE instructors, who are also NSS-CDS as well.

Eric

PA/NJdiver · Feb 24, 2002

I took an intro to cavern class in December with an instructor at Ginnie. I had been to Ginnie in November and had watched two different GUE instructors while I was there. I had to do the same skills as the students in the GUE classes. I believe they expect the same out of you whether it's a GUE course or a NSS-CDS course. Not everyone passes. People in my cavern class didn't pass.

I chose to do the intro to cavern course vs. the GUE cave 1 class because of time constraints. Also, knowing my comfort level and how I like to take things slow, I felt the GUE class would have been too overwhelming for me because of the length of the class.

I am now looking into taking intro to cave with Tyler Moon. He is a NSS-CDS instructor as well as a GUE instructor.

Stacey

Rick Murchison · Feb 24, 2002

NSS-CDS has a proven track record of excellence in training. I think right now you'll find that most GUE instructors were already NSS-CDS or NACD or IANTD cave instructors as well as GUE, so even though GUE is the new guy in the game, they should be excellent as well.
I really doubt there are any lousy cave instructors out there - I've certainly never heard of one.
Rick

Divesherpa · Feb 25, 2002

Tyler Moon and Tysall are both excellent instructors.
Whatever you do, I would recommend against taking the IANTD cave class. That's a cert that's normally thrown in when you complete NACD or NSS-CDS cave course.

Wendy · Feb 25, 2002

I don't think that you should avoid an IANTD cave course. The training is the same as the NSS-CDS or NACD classes. When I decided to do my cave training I didn't look at what agency I wanted written on my card, but what instructor I thought would be the best for me, whether I was comfortable with that person, their reputation, what others had thought of that instructors class, etc. There are many great instructors out there, but unfortunatley with only 2 or 3 levels of cave class we don't have the opportunity to take classes from them all.

Oh and while I'm up on the soap box

I'd like to also add that you don't have to take a GUE course to be DIR.

ericfine50 · Feb 26, 2002

Wendy,

I agree with Divesherpa, Take an NSS, NACD. or GUE class. Last time I was down in N Fl. I heard a bunch of people taking about how worthless the IANTD cert was (alone from NSS,etc). I have seen some people and instructors trained IANTD style and it just scared me to see them in the water. Visiual jumps and gaps, and other fun stuff.

Eric

Wendy · Feb 26, 2002

What people are trained to do and what they do after getting their card can be 2 different things. An instructor can't hld their students hand after they get certified and make sure that they don't deviate from their training. I'm sure that its not just IANTD students that do this. Complacency is something that any cave diver can be guilty of and sadly it can get you killed. Just seems amazing how many people associate IANTD with strokes. Most of the IANTD instructors that I know are also NSS-CDS or NACD instructors too. Does this mean that they will teach one method of cave diving when giving an IANTD cert and another when cert-ing for another agency? I think not. Saying that IANTD cave cert is junk is about as off the wall as saying that every DIR diver will confront you in the parking lot and telling you that you are stupid and going to die cuz you are a stroke. Gee are we getting into stereotyping in cave diving as well?

WYDT · Feb 26, 2002

GUE's Cave 1 class is almost identical to the NSS-CDS Cavern and Intro combined. The main difference is GUE Cave 1 is done with doubles and NSS Cavern and Intro is done with a single. GUE Cave 1 is however, restricted to 1/6 of doubles and no jumps.

I do agree with using doubles in training for cavern and intro since one shouldn't (imho) be in an overhead without them... ok, maybe cavern but not cave.

I also agree with some others here that the instructor is much more important than the agency although I do admit that I've yet to hear of a GUE instructor to "avoid". I've heard of many from other agencys.

DSAO!!

Divesherpa · Feb 26, 2002

Most of my cards are from IANTD, but I stand firm on suggesting not to take their class alone. I don't know any instructors who only teach IANTD cave, although I've heard of a few. NSS, NACD, or GUE are the only three I PERSONALLY would recommend.

GUE vs NSS-CDS

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