The reason for the post is to see if I can pick the brains of some of the more accomplished/experienced technical divers that monitor the board. I am seriously considering pursuing the technical side of diving, in order to gain the necessary experience,knowledge,safety and profeciency necessary for me to dive the deep wrecks that have been out of my reach due to a lack of technical training. Briefly, I have been recreational diving for about 5 years, am instructor qualified(rec), physically fit, very profecient in rec diving, however I realize this will probably mean squat when going to the next level. My idea is to go the cave route, not that I aspire to be a cave diver, but because I respect the serious training that this will provide me. My goal is to go deep tec. I live in Northern Florida and am very serious in this pursuit. Can someone point me in the direction they would take if they were me? Thanks!
Need Technical Direction
- Thread starter troy
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It sounds to me like you have the right plan, especially considering where you live. Many of the same techniques you'll learn, and especially the discipline, are directly transferable to all technical diving.
Rick
Rick
Campana
Guest
I am pursuing cave training and diving a few wrecks on the way. Being in North Florida, you should have to drive quite a bit less than the rest of us. I am taking IANTD training, with a lot of "extra". My instructor views cave training as a long process with practice interspersed with classes, and including deep diving and mixed gas training as well as increased proficiency working on equipment, mixing gasses, and other necessary aspects included. I'm not in a hurry, but want to be good at what I do.
Some instructors will run you from cavern newbie to full cave in a week, I don't think that route is wise.
I think you'll find some interesting information on the Global Underwater Explorer's website. GUE seems to be on the leading edge of training. Their site explains the steps.
Welcome to the board; hope you have the best of luck with your training.
Dave
Some instructors will run you from cavern newbie to full cave in a week, I don't think that route is wise.
I think you'll find some interesting information on the Global Underwater Explorer's website. GUE seems to be on the leading edge of training. Their site explains the steps.
Welcome to the board; hope you have the best of luck with your training.
Dave
Campana
Guest
here's some of my favorites. Others will have additions I'm sure:
NSS Cavern Diving Manual
NSS Cave Diving Manual
Basic Cave Diving by Sheck Exley
Caverns Measureless to Man by Sheck Exley
The Last Dive by Bernie Chowdhury
NSS Cave Diving Communications Manual (not sure of title).
Doing it Right, The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski.
Did I leave any out, guys?
Happy Reading
NSS Cavern Diving Manual
NSS Cave Diving Manual
Basic Cave Diving by Sheck Exley
Caverns Measureless to Man by Sheck Exley
The Last Dive by Bernie Chowdhury
NSS Cave Diving Communications Manual (not sure of title).
Doing it Right, The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski.
Did I leave any out, guys?
Happy Reading
100days-a-year
Contributor
Or if you like,you could get the card real inexpensively from Lloyd Baileys and subscribe to all the tech lists such as cavers,techdiver,DIRquest etc...and get lotsa info for free.Take the extra $ and buy more gear.That's what I call the "Lost Yooper" method.He is as informed as anyone in Fla about cave diving but lives in the frozen wasteland.Not to slight GUE or any of the other more erxpensive and protracted training courses(IANTD esp)but I'll be happier learning from concensus rather than 1 viewpoint even if that viewpoint is eminently qualified.Very few of the folks caving for a long time have cert cards or only need them to get into the cave entrance.By the time most people used to get into caving they had figured out how to keep Darwin&Murphy outta the loop.
trymixdiver
Guest
Sounds like you thought it out a bit. I will just point out equipment costs for tech diving vs. rec. Be prepared to spend a few thousand $. I have less than the serious guys on here and when i get in the water my equipment i use is around $6000 dollars.
If you have a good job great! if not get a second one
Andy
If you have a good job great! if not get a second one
Andy
I really hate to disagree with you here and I certainly don't want to slight Yooper....
But you are wrong on this one (IMO.)
You can get some head/theoretical knowledge by reading stuff on the web but you can't get the practical knowledge that only actual in-water training can give you.
It is during in-water training (esp by GUE) that you find out you never get rid of Darwin&Murphy but you prepare yourself to deal with them because they will accompany you on every dive. Perhaps not always attacking but they are there none the less waiting for the opportunity.
You can read all you want ahead of time but when both Darwin and Murphy in the guise of a GUE instructor start schoolin you in the water in a DIRF you will find out you really didn't know as much as you thought you did.
DIR is not a democracy and consensus doesn't count. I am sure Yooper would agree and I also think that he would be the first to repudiate the *training free* method.
BTW the $$ charged for GUE classes are miniscule compared to what is received.
I don't think taking a cheap half-assed course and then reading about the subject is a good idea at all. That would be like me taking a science class and then reading up on brain surgery and trying it out at a local hospital.
I would go to the GUE website (www.gue.com) and look into doing a cave 1 class with them. They also have a tech 1 class that might be of interest to you. The money you spend on the courses is well worth the knowledge you will gain, and unlike other training agencies, just because you pay your money doens't mean you'll end up with a c-card. You have to earn it.
Living in North Florida also gives you an advantage in getting good training.
Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide.
I would go to the GUE website (www.gue.com) and look into doing a cave 1 class with them. They also have a tech 1 class that might be of interest to you. The money you spend on the courses is well worth the knowledge you will gain, and unlike other training agencies, just because you pay your money doens't mean you'll end up with a c-card. You have to earn it.
Living in North Florida also gives you an advantage in getting good training.
Good luck and keep us posted on what you decide.
wrecNcaver
Contributor
Troy, a number of years ago I also wanted to have better training as I was doing deeper wrecks and wanted to penetrate safer. I was diving doubles and had taken some tech classes. I found the cave training to be excellent for me. (I also became hooked on diving the caves, so be warned it is addicting!) IMHO finding a good instructor that you can work with is key but be prepared. It is very hard work and I don't know of any instructor in the cave world that just hands out c-cards. Coming over to the tech side is awesome!
Lost Yooper
Guest
Oh boy, that's a good one! While it is true that I don't have a book full of certs. and am not formally trained in most of what I do, I don't recommend doing what I've done to others. Keep in mind, that I live in the middle of nowhere where dive shops are few and far between (NO good ones) and technical instruction is nonexistant. I took it upon myself to learn this stuff the only way that was/is available to me -- from guys on the internet (mainly Irvine and JJ).
The theory stuff regarding gear, deco procedures, physiology, mixing, and whatever is relatively easy to learn on your own IF you're dedicated to learning it. I don't need an instructor hand me a paper with a bunch of questions (a test) to make sure I got it all. It's more important to me that I actually know this stuff and can apply it. I have the GUE books, a lot of good sites, and know many GUE divers and instructors as well as a few WKPP guys that have been invaluable to me.
Now here's the problem with what I've done. I don't have all of the little intricacies of diving technique that only a good, experienced instructor could develop with me. For example, I don't know if my frog kicks are absolutely perfect, as I've never had anyone of experience observe them. I guarentee that I would come up short on some of the details of specific diving techniques that GUE requires. I have the really important stuff down pat and will put my skills against against most any of the "technical divers" I've seen show up here at Whitefish Bay.
I am NOT anti-training :nono:. As is evident in many of my posts, I don't necessarily place a heck of a lot weight in certs or the number of dives someone has. I think people can waste a lot of time and money on "less-than-relavent" classes too. However, IMO, GOOD training can't be beat to gain the necessary skills needed in technical diving. On the other hand, bad training can be worse than no training at all -- which also influenced my "method". After I figured out what was going on, I wasn't about to get involved with poor training and/or poor instructors. IMO, I could do a better job on my own, and I think I have.
Now, here's the sticking point. I have accepted the fact that I will not have all of the perfect skills underwater that only a good GUE student taught by a good instructor will have. This is my trade off and something I accept. That said, I very much want to take a GUE class someday -- perhaps even DIRF. Unfortunately, I find myself in an ever increasing rut. I am getting more and more comfortable with my knowledge, and even my diving skills, and find it difficult to think about spending $1000+ to go to Florida to take a class that will basically tweak my skills. I can do a lot with a $1000. I'm just being honest here.
OK, let me clear one little thing up. I don't know squat about cave diving. I've never been in a cave, never seen a cave, and generally consider cavers as being nut cases. I would not be caught dead in a cave without GUE training -- NO FRIGGIN' WAY! I've been in and out wrecks since my first OW dive several years ago. Wreck diving is what I do up here, and is basically all I've ever done. The wreck diving up here, though often deep and cold, is relatively easy diving (decent vis, little to no current, good moorings, easy penetrations, etc.). No, I don't have a PADI cert. giving me permission to go inside a wreck. Nor do I have a cert. telling me I can go under the ice or do deep staged deco dives with trimix. I took years of baby steps getting to where I'm at, and I haven't gotten where I want go either. These are the choices I've made.
So, as I've said in other posts... I'm just a diver. I'm not someone with a book full of certs or an instructor with 2000 repetitious OW dives under my belt. I'm not involved with any organization and have no vested interest in anything I say or do. I just do as I do and dive as I do. If any you guys want to come up and join me on a wreck dive, I'll set you up with all the fixin's. If people like what I have to say -- that's fine. I'm happy to help out, but (to everyone) don't use me as an example for anything, eh!
Hope that clears things up a bit. Dive safe.
Mike
The theory stuff regarding gear, deco procedures, physiology, mixing, and whatever is relatively easy to learn on your own IF you're dedicated to learning it. I don't need an instructor hand me a paper with a bunch of questions (a test) to make sure I got it all. It's more important to me that I actually know this stuff and can apply it. I have the GUE books, a lot of good sites, and know many GUE divers and instructors as well as a few WKPP guys that have been invaluable to me.
Now here's the problem with what I've done. I don't have all of the little intricacies of diving technique that only a good, experienced instructor could develop with me. For example, I don't know if my frog kicks are absolutely perfect, as I've never had anyone of experience observe them. I guarentee that I would come up short on some of the details of specific diving techniques that GUE requires. I have the really important stuff down pat and will put my skills against against most any of the "technical divers" I've seen show up here at Whitefish Bay.
I am NOT anti-training :nono:. As is evident in many of my posts, I don't necessarily place a heck of a lot weight in certs or the number of dives someone has. I think people can waste a lot of time and money on "less-than-relavent" classes too. However, IMO, GOOD training can't be beat to gain the necessary skills needed in technical diving. On the other hand, bad training can be worse than no training at all -- which also influenced my "method". After I figured out what was going on, I wasn't about to get involved with poor training and/or poor instructors. IMO, I could do a better job on my own, and I think I have.
Now, here's the sticking point. I have accepted the fact that I will not have all of the perfect skills underwater that only a good GUE student taught by a good instructor will have. This is my trade off and something I accept. That said, I very much want to take a GUE class someday -- perhaps even DIRF. Unfortunately, I find myself in an ever increasing rut. I am getting more and more comfortable with my knowledge, and even my diving skills, and find it difficult to think about spending $1000+ to go to Florida to take a class that will basically tweak my skills. I can do a lot with a $1000. I'm just being honest here.
OK, let me clear one little thing up. I don't know squat about cave diving. I've never been in a cave, never seen a cave, and generally consider cavers as being nut cases
. I would not be caught dead in a cave without GUE training -- NO FRIGGIN' WAY! I've been in and out wrecks since my first OW dive several years ago. Wreck diving is what I do up here, and is basically all I've ever done. The wreck diving up here, though often deep and cold, is relatively easy diving (decent vis, little to no current, good moorings, easy penetrations, etc.). No, I don't have a PADI cert. giving me permission to go inside a wreck. Nor do I have a cert. telling me I can go under the ice or do deep staged deco dives with trimix. I took years of baby steps getting to where I'm at, and I haven't gotten where I want go either. These are the choices I've made.So, as I've said in other posts... I'm just a diver. I'm not someone with a book full of certs or an instructor with 2000 repetitious OW dives under my belt. I'm not involved with any organization and have no vested interest in anything I say or do. I just do as I do and dive as I do. If any you guys want to come up and join me on a wreck dive, I'll set you up with all the fixin's. If people like what I have to say -- that's fine. I'm happy to help out, but (to everyone) don't use me as an example for anything, eh!
Hope that clears things up a bit. Dive safe.
Mike
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