Hawaiis Dive Flag Law - Is it a recipe for disaster?

Gilligan · Sep 10, 2004

Hawaiis Dive Flag Law.

Is it, or has it already been, a recipe for disaster?

Hawaii Law makes allowances for a boat to approach a dive flag within the 100 or 50-foot restriction as per the following:

Section 13-245-9
f) All vessels shall be prohibited from approaching within one hundred feet of a displayed diver's flag or within fifty feet of a displayed diver's flag on navigable streams, except within marked navigation channels. Vessels approaching a displayed diver's flag to conduct SCUBA, snorkeling, or free diving activities within the one hundred foot or fifty foot restricted area shall be allowed to do so provided that the vessel approaches at a speed of slow-no-wake.

On September 7, 2004 I was kayak scuba diving in 25 to 30 feet of water at one of the more popular South Maui dive/snorkel locations. My kayak had a dive flag sticking four feet up in the air from it. I heard a boat motor that sounded very close. I looked up from the bottom only to see a large catamaran almost directly over me. The catamaran was approx. 50 to 75 feet from my kayak. I completed my dive, surfaced within ten minutes and secured my gear. I then paddled over to the boat, which was a tour boat out of Maalaea Harbor. I spoke with its captain. His demeanor was confrontational and argumentative; to the point of denying I had a dive flag displayed as well as demanding I show it to him, which I did. The conversation is irrelevant as the law allows him to do exactly what he did regardless of whether he saw my dive flag or not. Had I been in the process of surfacing from my dive I may have been struck by the boat, or worse, caught in its propeller(s).

Did the Kauai scuba instructor losing his leg and his student suffering a severed arm from a boat propeller have any direct bearing on the way this law is currently written?

I think it's time Hawaii took a closer look at its dive flag law and the need to revise it. My feeling is that the 100 and 50 foot distances should be absolute regardless of another boats intentions. Our waterways and popular ocean dive/snorkel sites are too crowded for the rule as it is currently written.

android · Sep 10, 2004

I don't think a boat or diver should be able to hog a nice spot or reef just by flying a dive flag. As long as another boat has the intention of diving the same spot they should be allowed to approach at no wake and with due caution. I personally don't think boats (or kayaks) should be abandoned while a diver is below, but I don't necessarily think there should be a law against it either.

When we were diving the Keys, there didn't seem to be a problems sharing locations and boats always approached dive sites at no wake.

Damselfish · Sep 10, 2004

Gilligan:
Our waterways and popular ocean dive/snorkel sites are too crowded for the rule as it is currently written.

Or is the rule written this way because things are crowded, and they're basically saying people should (carefully) share?

friscuba · Sep 10, 2004

Unfortunately, I don't think non-diving boat captains really give much of a rip about divers and are relatively unlikely to take notice of a small dive flag on either a kayak or being towed by a diver.

It would be curious to know if in the Kauai incident if there was a dive flag over the instructor and diver. If off a boat, the flag would have been on the boat and instructors often venture outside the 50/100 foot distance from the boat. If off shore it depends on who the instructor is. Many ignore the flag laws and don't carry them, others carry them, but it is fairly common to secure the flag to a spot and dive from there. I'd have to read up on the incident to see if there was a flag nearby, if there was the captain is in jeopardy of losing his license for a while.

The no wake speed does work if the boat operator is paying attention for dive flags and associated bubbles. In many areas there are multiple moorings 100 feet apart and boats do need to maneuver a bit to hook up, it is possible to need to get within the 50/100 foot distance to get to a mooring.

later,

Steve

Gilligan:
Hawaiis Dive Flag Law.

Is it, or has it already been, a recipe for disaster?

Hawaii Law makes allowances for a boat to approach a dive flag within the 100 or 50-foot restriction as per the following:

Section 13-245-9
f) All vessels shall be prohibited from approaching within one hundred feet of a displayed diver's flag or within fifty feet of a displayed diver's flag on navigable streams, except within marked navigation channels. Vessels approaching a displayed diver's flag to conduct SCUBA, snorkeling, or free diving activities within the one hundred foot or fifty foot restricted area shall be allowed to do so provided that the vessel approaches at a speed of slow-no-wake.

On September 7, 2004 I was kayak scuba diving in 25 to 30 feet of water at one of the more popular South Maui dive/snorkel locations. My kayak had a dive flag sticking four feet up in the air from it. I heard a boat motor that sounded very close. I looked up from the bottom only to see a large catamaran almost directly over me. The catamaran was approx. 50 to 75 feet from my kayak. I completed my dive, surfaced within ten minutes and secured my gear. I then paddled over to the boat, which was a tour boat out of Maalaea Harbor. I spoke with its captain. His demeanor was confrontational and argumentative; to the point of denying I had a dive flag displayed as well as demanding I show it to him, which I did. The conversation is irrelevant as the law allows him to do exactly what he did regardless of whether he saw my dive flag or not. Had I been in the process of surfacing from my dive I may have been struck by the boat, or worse, caught in its propeller(s).

Did the Kauai scuba instructor losing his leg and his student suffering a severed arm from a boat propeller have any direct bearing on the way this law is currently written?

I think it's time Hawaii took a closer look at its dive flag law and the need to revise it. My feeling is that the 100 and 50 foot distances should be absolute regardless of another boats intentions. Our waterways and popular ocean dive/snorkel sites are too crowded for the rule as it is currently written.

Wildcard · Sep 11, 2004

Most of the knuckleheads on boats never pay attention to them anyway. How many boats do you see flying the "Alpha" flag as required? I know of one dive boat on the whole island that does. It makes a case for a boat driving license for pleasure boaters and the capt of the cat has no excuse. Report him to the CG.

android · Sep 11, 2004

In the Keys, every boat with divers or snorklers flew a flags and I never saw one that didn't while people were in the water. Wife's dad says the CG are pretty strict about it and give out tickets. Maybe Hawaii needs better enforcement?

Al Mialkovsky · Sep 11, 2004

I would love for dive flags to indicate that motors on boats much be shut off from a great distance. Here in Oregon the dive flag is cautionary only. I had set up two dive flags at a lake not long ago and a couple of jet skies ended up using the dive flags as racing bouys.

They were issued a lousy warning, a WARNING?

We dove only between the two flags and that's where they stayed.

Maybe it'd be safer to dive without flags.

Wildcard · Sep 11, 2004

Hawaii, Maui anyways is big on the enforcement of the use of dive flags only as a revenue generating source. Iv'e never seen a ticket given to a boat for ignoring the flags....Again, I think that rec boaters should have to have some training. Some of the things I have seen rec boaters do are unbelievable!

alemaozinho · Sep 11, 2004

flag or not ,be careful out there.i,ve had several experiences in which the dive boat captain had to block the aproaching boats path and had to call the other captain on his radio

to get his attention.Lots of boaters are toasted on the weekends so that additional care should apply.Peace

Gilligan · Sep 11, 2004

android:
I don't think a boat or diver should be able to hog a nice spot or reef just by flying a dive flag. As long as another boat has the intention of diving the same spot they should be allowed to approach at no wake and with due caution.

There is plenty of room at dive sites for multiple boats without coming within 100 feet of each other.
It's all about timing. Divers can be surfacing while another boat approaches. All it takes is for that boat captain to not see the bubbles from one of them. Getting struck by a propeller at no-wake speed still hurts.

android:
I personally don't think boats (or kayaks) should be abandoned while a diver is below, but I don't necessarily think there should be a law against it either.

Why don't you think a boat or kayak should be "abandoned" when the diver(s) are under? That would only effect private boat owners as the commercial ones always have a captain on board by law.

A large part of the problem here on Maui is not with the private boaters but with the commercial tour operators of the larger boats, often referred to as "cattle boats". Some of them have a mindset that certain locations are their private turf and they will get into that spot no matter what. Some have yelled and screamed at kayak tour operators to get out of "their" spot. It should be about mutual respect and safety but instead, it's about money.

Hawaiis Dive Flag Law - Is it a recipe for disaster?

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