deep stops on atmos elite?

Hi, I'm considering getting a hoseless dive computer. I like the Suunto Vytec because it's conservative and has the RGBM program, but it's very expensive and so I'll probably get the Atmos Elite (can almost get 2 Elites for the price of 1 Vytec). Anyone have any opinions on either of the two computers? Reliability, transmission issues? Is there any way on the Atmos to program a 1-minute deep stop at half maximum depth as is now being recommended by some groups? From what I understand the Suunto does this automatically somehow. I do like the simple layout of the Atmos though-will probably get that and save up for a Suunto D9 in a few years .

Hoseless computers are a taste - some swear by them, and some loathe them. The advantages seem obvious:

1. One less hose
2. "Cool" points
3. As with any air-integrated computer, all of your information in one spot
4. All of that information in a convienient place - on your wrist

Also apparent may be the disadvantages:

1. TWO batteries to go bad and have to replace
2. The possibility of having transmission/reception issues
3. Expense

But seeing these in action, there also seems to be other disadvantages that don't seem to be so obvious:

1. The transmitter on the first stage is typically much larger than expected, and it's a "hard mount," meaning that if you whacked it on a wreck or rock or whatever (common if you ever penetrate), then it could possibly do some serious damage, including damage to the first stage's high pressure port. In short, if this happened, you'd lose your breathing gas in seconds.

2. Most divers with hoseless air-integrated computers that I've seen dive with a "backup" pressure gauge attached to a second high pressure port. Effectively, this negates one of the advantages above.

3. When the system is turned on, a diver must "sync" the transmitter and receiver - giving the diver yet another thing to do during the gear-up process.

But most of all, I personally don't recommend using a dive computer at all... I go into the explanation here ( http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org/homerockbottom.html ), in an article I wrote called, "The Concept of Rock Bottom."

Because of this, I recommend the purchase of a Suunto Vyper - like a Vytec without the hoseless part. I recommend placing the computer in gauge mode and sticking to your dive plan instead. You'd be surprised how easy it really is - a few dives, and you'll wonder why you ever thought you needed a computer.

By the way, Vypers are available - brand new - for about $300 from places like Leisurepro.com, which just so-happens to be a sponsor of this site. Used, they're even less. Ebay is a good source for them.

Good luck in your decision. Sorry I can't help you with info about the Atmos.

capybara:

Is there any way on the Atmos to program a 1-minute deep stop at half maximum depth as is now being recommended by some groups? From what I understand the Suunto does this automatically somehow. I do like the simple layout of the Atmos though-will probably get that and save up for a Suunto D9 in a few years .

Click to expand...

Why would you want to do a "1-minute deep stop at half maximum depth"?

The only Suunto that has a deep stop capability (using RGBM algorithm) is the D9, as far as I know. The Atmos uses a modified Haldanean algorithm (i.e. not designed with deep stops in mind - deep stops and micro bubble management was originally an RGBM concept) which is more aggressive than Suunto's RGBM but you can of course program the Atmos to be more conservative. I actually prefer the display layout of Pelagic computers (Pelagic makes Oceanic, Aeris, Sherwood and many of the "hockey puck" computers) but the Suunto is also a good product.

SeaJay:

But seeing these in action, there also seems to be other disadvantages that don't seem to be so obvious:

3. When the system is turned on, a diver must "sync" the transmitter and receiver - giving the diver yet another thing to do during the gear-up process.

But most of all, I personally don't recommend using a dive computer at all... I go into the explanation here ( http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org/rockbottom.html ), in an article I wrote called, "The Concept of Rock Bottom."

Because of this, I recommend the purchase of a Suunto Vyper - like a Vytec without the hoseless part. I recommend placing the computer in gauge mode and sticking to your dive plan instead. You'd be surprised how easy it really is - a few dives, and you'll wonder why you ever thought you needed a computer.

Click to expand...

As for having to "sync" the transmitter and receiver, this is no longer the case with newer dive computers such as the Oceanic Atom. If you want a good computer to use as a bottom timer (i.e. in Guage mode), I recommend the basic Cochran Commander.

SeaJay:

1. The transmitter on the first stage is typically much larger than expected, and it's a "hard mount," meaning that if you whacked it on a wreck or rock or whatever (common if you ever penetrate), then it could possibly do some serious damage, including damage to the first stage's high pressure port. In short, if this happened, you'd lose your breathing gas in seconds.

2. Most divers with hoseless air-integrated computers that I've seen dive with a "backup" pressure gauge attached to a second high pressure port. Effectively, this negates one of the advantages above.

3. When the system is turned on, a diver must "sync" the transmitter and receiver - giving the diver yet another thing to do during the gear-up process.

Click to expand...

To address those one at a time:

1. I've never once had a customer that had any problem with a transmitter at the first stage problem as far as port damage... never seen it, and we've sold 100's. Also, it just so happens, that even if you totally removed a transmitter, or for that matter, cut a HP hose... you would not "lose your breathing gas in seconds." Take a look at the end of the transmitter, a hose, or the orifice inside the port... they are smaller than a pin hole. You cold drain air much faster by purging a regulator than you can by removing a HP hose or transmitter. And as far as "in seconds." You can't get the air out a tank with the valve cranked all the way open and no reg on it... it takes about 10 minutes

2. I would not say most carry a gauge... I don't. In fact I'd say less than 5% do that I've seen. And when talking to those folks, they would carry 2 even if one wasn't hoseless... they just like redundancy, they just like redundancy, they just like....

3. Uh... No - no syncing - they are coded together.


But it is one of those things, some people like them... some don't... I do.

Hey SeaJay, your link seems to be broken...

Vie wrote, Why would you want to do a "1-minute deep stop at half maximum depth"?

http://www.scubadiving.com/training/your_body/one_minute_to_safer_diving/

I just want to know how much of a difference this RGBM stuff makes. I like to be safe.

Why hoseless ai? I look at my air pressure more than anything else on a dive. I always know where my wrist is. Probably not necessary but if it's more convenient it may be worth the extra expense.

scubatoys:

To address those one at a time:

1. I've never once had a customer that had any problem with a transmitter at the first stage problem as far as port damage... never seen it, and we've sold 100's. Also, it just so happens, that even if you totally removed a transmitter, or for that matter, cut a HP hose... you would not "lose your breathing gas in seconds." Take a look at the end of the transmitter, a hose, or the orifice inside the port... they are smaller than a pin hole. You cold drain air much faster by purging a regulator than you can by removing a HP hose or transmitter. And as far as "in seconds." You can't get the air out a tank with the valve cranked all the way open and no reg on it... it takes about 10 minutes

Click to expand...

Break the connection at the HP port (whether you damage the item in the port or the port itself), and your first stage no longer delivers gas - thus "losing your breathing gas in a matter of seconds." It's got nothing to do with having the gas escape - it has to do with the fact that your first stage will no longer deliver LP gas if the HP seal is broken.

2. I would not say most carry a gauge... I don't. In fact I'd say less than 5% do that I've seen. And when talking to those folks, they would carry 2 even if one wasn't hoseless... they just like redundancy, they just like redundancy, they just like....

Click to expand...

My experience has been exactly the opposite. Most I know don't dive with hoseless computers, but the ones that I've seen (there's lots of divers at the dive site) almost always have a simple SPG as "backup" to their hoseless. There's a reason for it, and no, it's not because people like to carry around twice the amount of gear that they need.

3. Uh... No - no syncing - they are coded together.

Click to expand...

Someone else mentioned that above. Is that a new feature this year? Last year's Vytec required synching... And so did the Atmos.

It'd be interesting to watch people with AI computers don gear and find out for real.

bubble blower:

Hey SeaJay, your link seems to be broken...

Click to expand...

Ah yes - so it does. Server crash last night. Should be operational momentarily...

OK ill chime in--- i have a vitec and i love it. Having all my info on my wriste is great plus one less hose to drag around and get caught on stuff. As for a warning for 1/2 deepest depth-- there isnt anything like that but the unit does show your deepest depth of the dive in the lower righty hand corner and stays there the whole time-- you can just make a mental note to stop at 1/2 of that.. Since the unit is on my wrist i find i look at it alot more and have a much better idea of what is going on with my gases ect. As for the rgmb -- well from the reading i have done -- rgmb accounts for the "silent" bubbles that werent able to be seen before when the first algorithms were made-- in my book---bubbles in the blood=bad--very bad--lol..Anyways-- Im happy with what i have and would do it again if needed. Oh and no problems syncing up-- you hold the vytec near your first stage and it auto syncs.. Goodluck with what you get

Server's back up... Link again: http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org/homerockbottom.html