Suunto RGBM & Buhlmann ZH L16

russian_diver · Oct 28, 2004

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking to purchase the dive computer (it seems vry long process

). So, I'm selecting between NiTek DUO (it's available in Russia now, good news!) and Suunto Vyper.

My doubts between these two computer it's them algorithms. NiTek DUO has Buhlmann ZH L16 and Vyper uses suunto RGBM model.

Which algorithm is safer?
Somewhere is there comparative analysis of this models?
Did someone use both?

TIA,
Dmitry

CRDiver · Oct 28, 2004

The Buhlmann is the most tested algorithm out there in terms of technical, cutting edge dives, and has been used for many years in the recreational community as well. Based on it's long track record, I'd say it's the "safest." However, the RGBM is now considered the most sophisticated, and takes into account variables that other algorithms don't. The research behind it is incredible, and there's substantial recent empirical evidence to back it all up... That being said, if you're just doing recreational dives, either will work very well. Diver mag out of England tested the Suunto vs. UWATEC (which uses Buhlmann) computers, and the Suunto will generally give you less bottom time (i.e., it's more conservative), which is something to consider if you're just keeping things recreational.

russian_diver:
Hi everyone,

I'm thinking to purchase the dive computer (it seems vry long process ). So, I'm selecting between NiTek DUO (it's available in Russia now, good news!) and Suunto Vyper.

My doubts between these two computer it's them algorithms. NiTek DUO has Buhlmann ZH L16 and Vyper uses suunto RGBM model.

Which algorithm is safer?
Somewhere is there comparative analysis of this models?
Did someone use both?

TIA,
Dmitry

Vie · Oct 28, 2004

The Vyper and most Suunto computers (I'm not sure about the D9) are NOT truly implementing the RGBM model. They are really dissolved gas, aka Haldanian, computers just like Pelagic computers (Oceanic, Aeris, Sherwood etc.). The Suuntos do change the Haldanian model limits on repetitive dives in response to such things as short surface intervals, exceeding 30 m, fast ascents, and reverse profiles. In normal recreational profiles, this modification of the Haldanian model is a reasonably good emulation of RGBM, but it is not true RGBM.

Both computers will work very well for recreational diving. No computers are truly "safe". Plan your dive and dive your plan.

pasley · Oct 28, 2004

Vie:
.... No computers are truly "safe". Plan your dive and dive your plan.

I would say.....No computers or dive tables are truly "safe". :11: Now that is IMHO a more accurate statement.

Bottom line is simply this, if you follow the dive table or dive computer you should have less risk than if you did not. Some computers are more aggressive (closer to the edge) than others just as some dive tables are. The science of DCI, so the doctors tell us is exact. What is not exact is the human doing the dive. Because of such variables as body composition, weight, fat, hydration levels, heart health, PFO, leaky valves, poor circulation, fatigue and many more variables, no dive table or computer can every be called truly safe. In other words, 100 divers can be tied to a rod and do a dive where every one of them does exactly the same dive and one may get bent, or not.

soi where are we? Well, it you want more bottom time, use a more agressive computer. Just be aware that more bottom time means greater gas loads and potentially more risk. Every dive has a DCI risk, even if you follow the dive tables and/or computer to the letter. But then crossing the street is a risk.

StSomewhere · Oct 28, 2004

Vie:
The Vyper and most Suunto computers (I'm not sure about the D9) are NOT truly implementing the RGBM model. They are really dissolved gas, aka Haldanian, computers just like Pelagic computers (Oceanic, Aeris, Sherwood etc.). The Suuntos do change the Haldanian model limits on repetitive dives in response to such things as short surface intervals, exceeding 30 m, fast ascents, and reverse profiles. In normal recreational profiles, this modification of the Haldanian model is a reasonably good emulation of RGBM, but it is not true RGBM.

Well you wouldn't know that from the Suunto marketing... Hmm, they are careful to reference the "Suunto RGBM"... Do any other dive computers (Mares/Dacor) implement a true RGBM?

Click to expand...

Daryl Morse · Oct 28, 2004

stsomewhere:
Well you wouldn't know that from the Suunto marketing... Hmm, they are careful to reference the "Suunto RGBM"... Do any other dive computers (Mares/Dacor) implement a true RGBM?

Agreed, you would never know this from reading Suunto or Mares/Dacor literature. My understanding is that the only computer that has implemented "full RGBM" is the HS Explorer, which is a serious, high-end technical diving computer.

DEEPLOU · Oct 29, 2004

russian_diver:
Hi everyone,

I'm thinking to purchase the dive computer (it seems vry long process ). So, I'm selecting between NiTek DUO (it's available in Russia now, good news!) and Suunto Vyper.

My doubts between these two computer it's them algorithms. NiTek DUO has Buhlmann ZH L16 and Vyper uses suunto RGBM model.

Which algorithm is safer?
Somewhere is there comparative analysis of this models?
Did someone use both?

TIA,
Dmitry

Without going into the theory of the algorithims (which I am not qualified to do), I will say..... I dive with both, the Viper in the console and the Duo strapped to the hose end of the console, (abt 3 inches apart).

For deco dives, I will follow deeper stops from schedule generated by Dplan, but be sure to clear the Duo also (when using O2 for deco). Since the Viper is one gas computer, for those dives Viper usually gets violated.

However, before switching to O2 @ 20 ft, (or when doing no deco dives) the Viper is slightly more conservative than the Duo.

Suunto RGBM & Buhlmann ZH L16

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