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flyinghuntster
November 15th, 2004, 11:57 PM
This is a silly Question but one that needs to be asked. If a large Jew fish (like ones you see at wrecks that "live" there ALL the time) could somehow be caught without taking you for a ride of your life. Would the meat be tough like on Older cattle? I personnaly would feel slightly ashamed at taking something that is almost like the wreck itself, something that draws divers down to certain areas. I guess it would be an ethical question for each diver. Has anyone ever had a RIDE from fish that was probably too large to catch?

Johnoly
November 16th, 2004, 08:53 AM
I've shot an AJ that wanted to do the best "Saturday Night Fever" disco dance that you've ever seen. Down in the sand, bending the spear to look like a pretzel, and so much silt and dust it looked like an underwater tornado.Took 15 minutes and 1500psi of scuba rodeo to finally get it on the stringer. Even the baracuda's watching nearby decided to stay out of this fight. I will say, we cooked it up later that week and it fed 8 people with more left over.

I usually take a very long look at my gauge and think twice before shooting another big AJ.

DA Aquamaster
November 16th, 2004, 09:14 AM
I personnaly would feel slightly ashamed at taking something that is almost like the wreck itself, something that draws divers down to certain areas. I guess it would be an ethical question for each diver.Unfortunately it is often just a question of ethics for each individual diver, and in many cases their ethical reasoning is sadly lacking and encompasses little more than the legalityof the act.

A you allude to, some fish almost qualify as dive site in and of themselves and the ecomomics of shooting them just do not make sense as the fish are much more valauable as attractions at the site than they are on someone's plate.

If you shoot a fish with that status, expect to draw the rath of the regulars who dive that site. Wether it happens to be legal or whether you have the legal "right" to shoot it is not the issue and is not going to make much difference. The larger ethical issue is that you will have chosen to pursue a personal desire and eliminate a potentially scarce and difficult to replace resource at the expense of the diving community at large.

Don't misunderstand - I am not anti-spearfishing. On the contrary I have been spearfishing for 25 years and still enjoy it when appropriate. The thing is that what is considered ethical and acceptable in spearfishing has changed over time. Those relatively few spearfishermen out there who lack the ethical understanding or the social grace to get a clue when they offend other people pose a significant risk to spearfishing as a sport. Non-spearfishing voters out number spearfishing voters by about a 1000 to 1. A few isolated acts can result in public outcry and a legal mandate that will not go well for people who spearfish.

CBulla
November 16th, 2004, 09:56 AM
Coming from a guy whose family used to commercial fish, Jewfish are not tough as leather.. a 100# jewfish is still a juvinile. The fish houses would be happy when we showed up with a 200..300..500# fish.. thats a LOT of grouper! Dive most of the artifical reefs aroud right now and thats all you see besides snapper to... the rest of the grouper are sparse and small.

SueMermaid
November 16th, 2004, 10:02 AM
Yeah, they taste delicious, but it's sorta like eating your little brother.

Walter
November 16th, 2004, 10:33 AM
It's academic, it's illegal to harvest Jewfish.

Frank Kohler
November 16th, 2004, 10:35 AM
more times then not jew fish are not very good eating.

Hank49
November 16th, 2004, 10:38 AM
[QUOTE=flyinghuntster] Would the meat be tough like on Older cattle? QUOTE]

A friend and I speared a few Greasy Back Grouper, which looks pretty much like a Jewfish in the Philippines that weighed about 25 lbs. They were chewy and tough...but tasted pretty good. The 40-60 lb Jewfish we catch in the Placencia Lagoon are very soft and tender. Never had the chance to eat a 400 lb one ....yet.

cdiver2
November 16th, 2004, 10:47 AM
It's academic, it's illegal to harvest Jewfish.

Walter, sometimes I am utterly amazed at people :11: :06:

archman
November 16th, 2004, 05:55 PM
It's academic, it's illegal to harvest Jewfish.

I'd assume they're talking about jewfish in non-U.S. waters where hunting is still permitted.

Hank49
November 16th, 2004, 06:20 PM
It's academic, it's illegal to harvest Jewfish.
]
Hi Walter,
I've not spent any time in the oceans off the continental US. I presume spearing is illegal. How about hooking them?
Here in the lagoon there seems to be quite a lot of them. We catch small snappers (1/2 lb), hook them through the tail just above the spine behind the dorsal fin, and toss them back into the mangroves using 40-50 lb test line. I've heard of people landing 300 lb jewfish this way with 300 lb test hand lines. It's not easy to land them. They get into the branches under water and slice the line on barnacles. I've landed only about 1 of 8 that I hook.

Walter
November 16th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Spearfishing is legal in the US. Harvesting Jewfish by any method is not.

Rick Murchison
November 16th, 2004, 07:52 PM
We didn't nearly exterminate the jewfish from our (US) waters because they weren't delicious...
I am greatly relieved that they're making a come-back in the Gulf; they are magnificent fish.
Some folk feel they've made enough of a come-back to open a season on them again, but I don't agree... they are nowhere near the density or the size they were back in the 70's yet.
Rick

flyinghuntster
November 16th, 2004, 09:27 PM
I would agree that they are great to look at. Epcot Dive Quest had a LARGE (aren't they all?) Jew fish that was albino and we didn't see it until our second run through the tank.
I have never seen one in the states on the shallow reefs I dive. The large one I saw in the UAE was on a wreck in the Gulf od Oman at 110' without a gun and I was in a nature preserve.

flyinghuntster
November 16th, 2004, 09:35 PM
I guess that the wild animal world underwater, as it is in on land, there are people who like to just look, hunt and others who do both. I have been enjoying the looking part for years and now I will start enjoying the EATING part too.

I loved the first story about the Saturday Night Fever dance...... :-) I was "right" there underwater just reading that! I can't wait to get in on that kind of fun.

mempilot
November 16th, 2004, 09:40 PM
I was getting my tanks filled last week, when a local spearfisherman comes in with a picture of a 100lb black that he speared. While it was a record black for the area as any of us knew, none of us was enthusiastic about his kill. To see this huge fish hanging next to the hunter for a photo op made me feel kind of sad. The fish was beautiful, and it would have been more so if seen swimming on the wreck. The guy left feeling a little strange about the kill, but said it made good eating.

We see small to medium jew fish on many of the deeper wrecks in the area. It's kind of cool when I have to get out of their way. That's attitude that needs to be respected. Leave em alone I say.

deadend
November 16th, 2004, 09:55 PM
Mempilot, I don't wanna start any more s%&t but shouldn't you post about leaving the fish alone on the other forum with the shark lovers? This is the underwater hunting forum and most folks that contribute here would sling steel at a 100lb carbo in half a nanosecond if given the opportunity. We could all shoot 7" pinfish and be happy but a large fish is even better.

TropicalDiver
November 16th, 2004, 10:39 PM
deadend - I like your thinking! :)

The quickly expanding Jewfish numbers are just as quickly deleting the groupers and other fish that can be found on Gulf wrecks. On the Mexican Pride wreck, for example, few if any good fish live there to be shot, but don't shoot one if you find one - cause about 6 refrigerator-size jewfish will be on top of you in a nanosecond! Among spearfisherman that dive there, jewfish stealing fish is a REAL concern....some guys have the scars to prove it.... :11:

mempilot
November 16th, 2004, 11:00 PM
Mempilot, I don't wanna start any more s%&t but shouldn't you post about leaving the fish alone on the other forum with the shark lovers? This is the underwater hunting forum and most folks that contribute here would sling steel at a 100lb carbo in half a nanosecond if given the opportunity. We could all shoot 7" pinfish and be happy but a large fish is even better.
You misread my thoughts. Spearfish all you like. Killem big and killem all. My reference was the same as others above, to the jew fish in SE FL waters. They are still fairly small compared to days past and the numbers are still few. I see more 20 to 50 lb grouper on the wrecks than 100lb jew fish.

deadend
November 17th, 2004, 12:01 AM
I can't remember the last time I saw a jewfish UNDER 200lbs. 20 to 50 lb grouper(square tails) on wrecks outnumbering jewfish? I need to come dive with you! Most of the jewfish I see are 300+ and many have got to be over 5. Not even surprised to see them anymore. 20 - 50 lb grouper though, I'd be shocked and quick on the trigger!

flyinghuntster
November 17th, 2004, 06:04 AM
Have you ever seen a 50 lbs Jewfish? You would almost think that they start out 200 Lbs or greater but you don't see large 100 Lbs eggs just laying around anywhere. :-)

mempilot
November 17th, 2004, 09:41 AM
Come dive down here. You'll see why it's illegal right now to harvest jew fish.

Walter
November 17th, 2004, 10:12 AM
I wish we could give you some of ours. It's common to see 15 - 20 on one site.

mempilot
November 17th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Maybe ours are getting speared after all!? 20 on one site, be gosh! Send em over. I saw 3 on one site once over here. Most of the ones I see are on wrecks in the 120 and deeper depths.

Walter
November 17th, 2004, 10:42 AM
Come dive the Gulf, we have more than our share.

ReefGuy
November 17th, 2004, 10:48 AM
I'll second Walter. Anytime you spear a fish, you've got to fight a jewfish for it. You don't see them on just deep dives, either. They're common from 30' on.

mempilot
November 17th, 2004, 10:53 AM
Sounds like they need to lift the ban on the Gulf side.

CBulla
November 17th, 2004, 10:56 AM
I echo walter on that. There are a number of sites that are so loaded with jews that its basically all you see... aside from smaller fish.

Check out this:
http://www.lee-county.com/naturalresources/database.asp

Do a search for Goliath.. pay attention to the ARC listings.. if you want a map of that site go to, click on the red dot next to ARC, and a page describing the site comes up.. you can open a map from there. The map is a scale, so you can get an idea of the site:
http://www.lee-county.com/naturalresources/artreef.htm

TropicalDiver
November 17th, 2004, 11:28 AM
Maybe on the East Coast the bull sharks get them before they get big???

I haven't seen a jewfish on the East Coast, but they are doing quite well on the West coast! The West coast does also have a good amount of gag groupers - most commercial fish caught for sale nationally are out of the Gulf - maybe they are where their favorite food is more plentiful???

flyinghuntster
November 17th, 2004, 01:15 PM
That Lee County Fish counting web site is a real good tool! As well as the Site Map. Your County show be praised for setting up that site.

Walter
November 17th, 2004, 01:37 PM
Thanks. It's a good department with good people. The Volunteer Scientific Research Team provides a great deal of the data for the county.

biggsy
November 18th, 2004, 01:20 AM
I echo that Cbulla and Walter...we have more than our fair share on this coast.

From what I have seen and experienced they are becoming a nuisance. I would not be opposed to a limited harvest on this coast. It not uncommon to see these Goliaths in numbers and they occupy almost every ledge I dive. I sometimes wonder how they wedge themselves into their holes?

archman
November 18th, 2004, 01:58 AM
I'd wait to see how the current stocks compare to the pristine state before thinking about reopening hunting. You'd have to access the historical records from WAY back... assuming we have any for this species.

Actually this is what the regulatory agencies would do. "Shifting Baseline Syndrome" has been sweeping the fisheries community by storm the last few years. Nobody wants to look overeager and get made a fool of later.

Anybody seen any 600-800 pounders lately? Lots of THOSE suckers around would indicate a healthier stock. The only time I've seen one that big was in an aquarium.

ReefGuy
November 18th, 2004, 08:49 AM
I saw two in the 500-600 pound range a couple of weeks ago, as well as at least 6 in the 200-300 pound range. They were coming after each fish we shot, and two of the "smaller" ones got into a fight over a gag.

100days-a-year
November 18th, 2004, 06:21 PM
No shortage of Jewfish in NE Fla.I had 1 wrestle with mwe last week.At one time I had 3 eyeing my stringer with more around.This particular wk has anout 10 in residence.lasdt year counted 15 in sight at the same time on one barge in Ft. Pierce.I assume it was a spawning aggregation as that many would deplete all the resident fish and bugs in a couple of days.I think thier #s are far underestimated but I am not qualified to make the decision to re-open the fishery.If it is re-opened I hope it's a limited entry/no sale for the first couple years to ensure a sustainable population.BTW they are tasty but there is a layer of fat/slime between flakes like any other grouper but more noticeable due too the greater size.

Scubakevdm
November 18th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Maybe on the East Coast the bull sharks get them before they get big???

I haven't seen a jewfish on the East Coast, but they are doing quite well on the West coast! The West coast does also have a good amount of gag groupers - most commercial fish caught for sale nationally are out of the Gulf - maybe they are where their favorite food is more plentiful???

Oooh... don't you worry, they're here.
Getting back to the original post, they are pretty good eating but hard to land without a powerhead. Manatee are much more palatable and easier to stone due to they're curious nature, though if you wing one you're in for a wild ride.

Simply Scuba
November 24th, 2004, 11:00 PM
there are plenty of really big ones in certain sections of the middle grounds, they can be very agressive.

Bob3
November 26th, 2004, 02:29 AM
One of my favorite spearfishing areas "out back" is crawling with jewfish, several in the VW size range.
No stringers used there, ya make a run to the boat if you do spear something or they'll relieve you of dinner.

Quetzal
November 26th, 2004, 12:22 PM
Oooh... don't you worry, they're here.
Getting back to the original post, they are pretty good eating but hard to land without a powerhead. Manatee are much more palatable and easier to stone due to they're curious nature, though if you wing one you're in for a wild ride.
Testing the waters Eh?

flyinghuntster
November 26th, 2004, 01:04 PM
I guess you would need to BEEF up your leader line for those Manatees :-) I would imagine that it would be alot faster than riding on a turtle!

flyinghuntster
November 26th, 2004, 01:06 PM
:11: I guess you would need to BEEF up your leader line for those Manatees :-) I would imagine that it would be alot faster than riding on a turtle! :eyebrow:

Hank49
November 26th, 2004, 04:01 PM
:11: I guess you would need to BEEF up your leader line for those Manatees :-) I would imagine that it would be alot faster than riding on a turtle! :eyebrow:

This is a true story. I was fishing for jewfish here in the lagoon and hooked a manatee. At first I thought it was a BIG jewfish as it started running off line really fast. My son pulled up the anchors and we started following it. I only had 30lb test line but when I put the boat in nuetral it kept pulling me along (22 foot deep V boat) It pulled us for close to a mile I would guess before we saw it's nose pop up. then it just slipped off the hook. It didn't bend or break anything. Belizean Sleigh Ride.

Quetzal
November 26th, 2004, 04:53 PM
This is a true story. I was fishing for jewfish here in the lagoon and hooked a manatee. At first I thought it was a BIG jewfish as it started running off line really fast. My son pulled up the anchors and we started following it. I only had 30lb test line but when I put the boat in nuetral it kept pulling me along (22 foot deep V boat) It pulled us for close to a mile I would guess before we saw it's nose pop up. then it just slipped off the hook. It didn't bend or break anything. Belizean Sleigh Ride.
Keep the stories coming man.

Curt Bowen
November 26th, 2004, 05:12 PM
Someone stated way back in this thread,that it was legal to spear Jewfish-its not, its not legal to possess them at all. Back 30 years ago when it was legal to get them, they werent as common as now, but we would not shoot them with a spear, just 12 gauge bangsticks. 38 specials and 44s would just make them mean. They may not be fast like a black or gag, but they are very strong and will take your speargun with them. They are very common now around here in Sarasota and all the way down to the Keys. Every reef holds many of all sizes. The bigger they are, the tougher they are. Meat and strength. Oh by the way this is not Curt, I didnt click his name off when I checked in. Steve.

Quetzal
November 26th, 2004, 06:01 PM
Someone stated way back in this thread,that it was legal to spear Jewfish-its not, its not legal to possess them at all. Back 30 years ago when it was legal to get them, they werent as common as now, but we would not shoot them with a spear, just 12 gauge bangsticks. 38 specials and 44s would just make them mean. They may not be fast like a black or gag, but they are very strong and will take your speargun with them. They are very common now around here in Sarasota and all the way down to the Keys. Every reef holds many of all sizes. The bigger they are, the tougher they are. Meat and strength. Oh by the way this is not Curt, I didnt click his name off when I checked in. Steve.
Where?

archman
November 26th, 2004, 06:12 PM
Jewfish protection is primarily limited to U.S. water only. You can fish for them throughout a great deal of the Caribbean... I think the commercial fishery in Belize may even be open still. Other commercial fisheries exist. They're hard to pin down... so many little countries.

Curt Bowen
November 26th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Sorry, I meant in the U.S. I havent seen a whole lot in the Bahamas, and I have never seen any in the Virgins and Cozumel, I'm sure they are there, but I am sure they are commonly fished for where ever they are found, by spear or line. I suppose it is legal everywhere outside of U.S. Steve.

Rick Murchison
November 29th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Hmmm.... reading through this thread I see some very interesting data...
Here's my experience, and what I gather from what I read here.
From the 60's until the mid 90's all my Gulf diving was from Alabama west to Corpus, and the Jewfish populations I saw were big and healthy into the early 70's. When I came back from the Navy in '88, the Jewfish were gone. Gone. The first one I saw was off Panama City in 1999; now I'm seeing them regularly, but there appears to be a sharp drop-off in size and population density between Port St. Joe and PC, and I rarely see one at all anywhere west of Pensacola. (I haven't been diving in Texas in three years so there may be some there now - any Texas divers with a report?)
From what Curt & others are saying it is apparent that the Jewfish has fully recovered in some areas; perhaps if we could more accurately define the population distribution we could get a limited season open in some places.
Based on what I see, right now I'd oppose any open season west of Port St. Joe.
Rick

archman
November 29th, 2004, 03:42 PM
I've only done a few Texas rig dives myself, but no jewfish were spotted of any size. There were however fairly large black and warsaw groupers in the 100 lb+ range. There seems to be a trend for "1-2 big grouper" that sit on the bottom of platforms... unfortunately it also seems to be the trend to shoot these suckers on sight. I find that irritating, even when it's my friends doing it.

Walter
November 29th, 2004, 03:54 PM
There will be no season on Jewfish until they've recovered in a much larger area. Right now they are plentiful off the SW Florida coast. In most other areas they are still pretty rare.

TwoBitTxn
November 29th, 2004, 05:50 PM
You all keep talking about 100-500 lb fish. How big is that? Length, girth, etc.

When these fish get agressive towards your speared fish, what do they do.. do they bite? I have heard of divers getting "boomed" I can understand that. I don't understand much of the rest.

TwoBit

archman
November 29th, 2004, 06:28 PM
This is what fishbase says...

Max. size: 250 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 26550); max. published weight: 455.0 kg (Ref. 4841)
Environment: reef-associated; brackish; marine ; depth range - 100 m
Climate: subtropical; 35N - 25S
Importance: fisheries: minor commercial; gamefish: yes
Resilience: Low, minimum population doubling time 4.5 - 14 years (K=0.13; tm=5.5-6.5)
Distribution:
Gazetteer Western Atlantic: Florida, USA to southern Brazil, including the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. Eastern Atlantic: Senegal to Congo (reported as Epinephelus esonue, Ref. 2739, 6809); rare in Canary Islands (Ref. 6808). Eastern Pacific: Gulf of California to Peru.
Morphology: Dorsal spines (total): 11; Dorsal soft rays (total): 15-16; Anal spines: 3; Anal soft rays: 8. Head long. Opercle with 3 flat spines, middle one the largest. Pelvic fins smaller than the pectorals. Bases of soft dorsal and anal fins covered with scales and thick skin. Juveniles tawny with irregular vertical bands.
Biology: A solitary species (Ref. 26340) occurring in shallow, inshore areas. Found on rock, coral, or mud bottoms (Ref. 5217). Juveniles found in mangrove areas and brackish estuaries (Ref. 5217). Large adults may be found in estuaries (Ref. 5217). Adults appear to occupy limited home ranges with little inter-reef movement. Feeds primarily on crustaceans, particularly spiny lobsters as well as turtles and fishes, including stingrays. Territorial near it's refuge cave or wreck where it may show a threat display with open mouth and quivering body. Larger individuals have been known to stalk and attempt to eat divers. Over-fished, primarily by spear fishing (Ref. 9710). Marketed fresh and salted. Meat is of excellent quality. Important game fish (Ref. 9342). Reported to reach weights of more than 315 kg (Ref. 26938).
Red List Status: Critically Endangered, see IUCN Red List (A1d+2d) , Sadovy, Y. , (Ref. 36508) , IUCN Grouper and Wrasse Specialist Group
Dangerous: traumatogenic , Halstead, B.W.. 1980

I'm not sure what "traumatogenic" means. Sounds fun.

mempilot
November 29th, 2004, 06:33 PM
"Larger individuals have been known to stalk and attempt to eat divers."

Seriously?!

Rick Murchison
November 29th, 2004, 06:53 PM
This is what fishbase says...
Larger individuals have been known to stalk and attempt to eat divers...
I'm not sure what "traumatogenic" means. Sounds fun.
Trauma - trauma
genic - create; make
traumatogenic means they have great big strong jaws and a powerful bite that can result in "blunt trauma" type wounds of consequence, even though they don't have big teeth. Manny had one chow down on his arm and got a pretty good bruise.
Never heard of anyone getting seriously hurt by one that wasn't on the end of a spear.
------------
Now I've been messing with Jewfish a long time... I can see how someone *might* characterize their behavior as "stalking" but I wouldn't call it that. Jewfish like to look at stuff - including divers. On many a dive I've waited patiently for the Jewfish others have chased off to return and check me out, and they generally will, within a couple minutes of others leaving.
I've been nose-to-nose with 500 pounders for minutes at the time, just sorta watching each other. Sometimes I wonder if the fish is thinking how to swallow my whole head, but I've never had one make an aggressive move at all so long as I wasn't spearfishing.
All in all I like Jewfish and I'd like to see 'em make a full recovery in their former numbers and range.
Rick

Scubakevdm
November 29th, 2004, 07:21 PM
I see bigg'ns on a regular basis. There's one spot where we have been seeing as many as 12 fish, between 300-700 lbs. consistantly. I think they showed up right after the hurricanes. Anyway, whenever I drop in on this spot, I always look East and sure enough there's a group of them sitting there wathcing me, shoulder to shoulder like a bunch of big old Mafia brutes. They're all like "What??? Fuggetaboutit."
There's another one that lived on on of the wrecks, he was smaller, about 200 lbs. I think people had been feeding him because he used to swim all up on you acting like a cat that wants you to feed it. He thrumped me one time. It churned my internal organs all around. Sorta like a gut massage. Here is a picture of that fish and I.
http://www.splashdowndivers.com/photo_gallery/montages/people/oct_2003/100503628xs.JPG
Anyway, you may notice that I'm kneeling in the sand. One of the things that made me think that this guy had been fed is that if you knelt in the sand he would come running. If you hovered, he stayed about 6' away. The fish is about 1' in front of me in this shot. There were times that he was much closer. When he was behind me it was kinda freaky because the only gauge I had for what was going on was the expression on the photographer's face. I know him quite well and I'm pretty sure that if the thing had clamped onto my head he would have gotten some shots first, then seen if he could have done anything to help.
I am 6'1", 225 lbs.

Scubakevdm
November 29th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Here he is without me. This is at the screw of the Capt. Tony. So is the other one, but you can just see a tiny bit of the hull in that shot. They are from the same dive.


http://www.splashdowndivers.com/photo_gallery/montages/people/oct_2003/100503620xs.JPG

Quetzal
November 29th, 2004, 08:09 PM
very nice photos

flyinghuntster
November 29th, 2004, 09:08 PM
These Pix say a thousand words!!!!

CBulla
November 29th, 2004, 09:36 PM
They say "Add butter and garlic on a hot cast iron skillet"

archman
November 30th, 2004, 02:12 AM
I don't know Kev, I'd call the one you photographed "sort of large". Hmmm... looks in the 300-400 lb range. Give him another twenty years and he might try to eat you with a fair degree of success.

Chad Carney
November 30th, 2004, 12:29 PM
"Larger individuals have been known to stalk and attempt to eat divers."

Seriously?!

Deadly serious! It's only a mater of time before a diver that isn't ready for the charge of one or more of these behemoths gets killed.

On the entire west coast of Florida they are back in herds! Yeah, they are often seen under 50 pounds; I witnessed a big one ambush and eat a small one. There were 20 more watching it and then the sharks came in.

In TX, MS & AL I have seen them on the rigs, but I've only dove there once or twice a year for the Rodeos in three years, so I don't know about population density. We've rarely seen the bottom. My LA buddies can't show me a single photo of a true black/carbo, just big gags and of course Warsaws. I have yet to see one on the rigs.

Most of us that shoot regularly here on Florida's west coast have had our scrapes with Jewfish. None like my buddy Dan.

Check this story... it'll give you a pucker factor of 10 real quick!

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/402142171.html?MAC=2d7c50e667a9a42cc557baa4906c2d9 1&did=402142171&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Sep+2%2C+2003&author=JEFF+KLINKENBERG&printformat=&desc=Revenge+of+the+sandwich+Series%3A+REAL+FLORID A

This Goliath grabbed the wrong boy!

Chad

CBulla
November 30th, 2004, 01:30 PM
I remember that article. That was on another board I lurk more than post on :D

Yup - I definitely feel out of the food chain apex style when I see those guys.

ReefGuy
November 30th, 2004, 01:45 PM
They definately aren't afraid of you, that's for sure. I don't like to get near the big ones.

Curt Bowen
August 5th, 2005, 04:11 PM
Someone stated way back in this thread,that it was legal to spear Jewfish-its not, its not legal to possess them at all. Back 30 years ago when it was legal to get them, they werent as common as now, but we would not shoot them with a spear, just 12 gauge bangsticks. 38 specials and 44s would just make them mean. They may not be fast like a black or gag, but they are very strong and will take your speargun with them. They are very common now around here in Sarasota and all the way down to the Keys. Every reef holds many of all sizes. The bigger they are, the tougher they are. Meat and strength. Oh by the way this is not Curt, I didnt click his name off when I checked in. Steve.

How is it, that someone else is writting under my name and avitar?

SuPrBuGmAn
August 5th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Sounds like you were logged on under some computer and whoever Steve is, didn't log you off before posting. Work with anyone named Steve? Anyone named Steve every been to your house and post on SB? Have you been to any Steve's house and post on SB? The thread is almost a year old since the last reply, goodluck finding an answer :)

Florabama
August 6th, 2005, 11:54 AM
I personally hope they don't lift the restriction, but that may have something to do with the fact that they are not as plentiful up here in Northwest Florida. We are getting to the point where there is one on most of the big wrecks, but its fairly rare to see one, but you often hear it "thumpping." I think if the restriction is lifted, they'll get wiped out pretty quickly. Its a thrill to see one.

ReefGuy
August 6th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Well, they can keep the restrictions on that coast, but ease them in the gulf. Over here, you can't spit on a wreck without hitting a couple. And if you're spearing, they can get very agressive.


I personally hope they don't lift the restriction, but that may have something to do with the fact that they are not as plentiful up here in Northwest Florida. We are getting to the point where there is one on most of the big wrecks, but its fairly rare to see one, but you often hear it "thumpping." I think if the restriction is lifted, they'll get wiped out pretty quickly. Its a thrill to see one.

Florabama
August 7th, 2005, 12:31 AM
Well, they can keep the restrictions on that coast, but ease them in the gulf. Over here, you can't spit on a wreck without hitting a couple. And if you're spearing, they can get very agressive.

I am on the Gulf -- right at the top, but the jewfish is more abundant in warmer waters, and in spite of that, I doubt the FWC will lift the restriction south of Tampa and keep it for the northern Gulf. I suspect, it will stay in place for some time to come.

ReefGuy
August 7th, 2005, 09:15 AM
I agree, I don't see them lifting the restrictions, only pointing out that bag limits and restrictions often vary on the two coasts.


I am on the Gulf -- right at the top, but the jewfish is more abundant in warmer waters, and in spite of that, I doubt the FWC will lift the restriction south of Tampa and keep it for the northern Gulf. I suspect, it will stay in place for some time to come.

Florabama
August 7th, 2005, 01:38 PM
I agree, I don't see them lifting the restrictions, only pointing out that bag limits and restrictions often vary on the two coasts.

Agree completely. Its one of the fallacies of bag and size limits. It looks like all other groupers are about to be taken off limits as well. The way things are going, spearfishermen are going to be out of business inspite of the fact that they have the least impact on the species of any other take method.

I went bottom fishing the other day on a charter boat, and we killed litterally dozens of fish. The ones that were able to make it back down after being pulled up from 150 fsw, were eaten on the way back down by the dolphins and the bull sharks. In our neck of the woods, the sound of a diesel engine is the dinner bell for dolphins and sharks. I watched a 8 foot bull causally swim up and swallow whole a 12 inch grouper that was thrown back. As soon as you stop the boat and make a drop, the dolphin will actually swim up and start slapping the water with their tails to call all their cousins. If you stay at the spot for more than a few minutes, you are soon surrounded by dolphin and sharks just waiting for the "shorts."

In other words, the bag and size limits make little difference to the populations of snapper and grouper, and spearfishermen never do this much damage to the species.

ReefGuy
August 7th, 2005, 09:56 PM
I wouldn't go that far yet. There's a major fight brewing with the FRA leading the way with support from the FWC. Lack of orginization has put recreational fishermen behind, but the FRA is addressing that. Quite well so far. There's going to be a meeting in Ft. Myers this wednesday, and the FRA will be there in force. I hope to be there as well (not that I'm anything special).

There's a proposed grouper closure in the gulf for Nov and Dec, as well as a limit reduction to 3 aggregate/1 red, but it's not going to be an easy sell.


Agree completely. Its one of the fallacies of bag and size limits. It looks like all other groupers are about to be taken off limits as well. The way things are going, spearfishermen are going to be out of business inspite of the fact that they have the least impact on the species of any other take method.

I went bottom fishing the other day on a charter boat, and we killed litterally dozens of fish. The ones that were able to make it back down after being pulled up from 150 fsw, were eaten on the way back down by the dolphins and the bull sharks. In our neck of the woods, the sound of a diesel engine is the dinner bell for dolphins and sharks. I watched a 8 foot bull causally swim up and swallow whole a 12 inch grouper that was thrown back. As soon as you stop the boat and make a drop, the dolphin will actually swim up and start slapping the water with their tails to call all their cousins. If you stay at the spot for more than a few minutes, you are soon surrounded by dolphin and sharks just waiting for the "shorts."

In other words, the bag and size limits make little difference to the populations of snapper and grouper, and spearfishermen never do this much damage to the species.

Florabama
August 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM
I wouldn't go that far yet. There's a major fight brewing with the FRA leading the way with support from the FWC. Lack of orginization has put recreational fishermen behind, but the FRA is addressing that. Quite well so far. There's going to be a meeting in Ft. Myers this wednesday, and the FRA will be there in force. I hope to be there as well (not that I'm anything special).

There's a proposed grouper closure in the gulf for Nov and Dec, as well as a limit reduction to 3 aggregate/1 red, but it's not going to be an easy sell.

Unfortunately, spearfishermen are on the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to political power. The commercial guys are at the top of the heap, the hook and line guys come next and spearfishermen get the shaft (pun intended :crafty: ).

Remember when the hook and line guys like Florida Sportsman Magazine tried to keep divers out of the Dry Tortugus even though line fishermen were allowed to fish there?

ReefGuy
August 9th, 2005, 07:39 AM
Yes, but Senator Martinez now appears to be supporting the recreational side of the board. Yesterday, he called for a delay on the new grouper restrictions, due to the economic affect on the state.

Recreational fishing, as a whole, has been on the bottom of the heap, because commercial fishermen are organized. Now recreational fishermen are getting there too, including spearfishermen. It's not going to be an easy fight, but it will be a fight, and the first session is tomorrow in Ft. Myers.

Correction: BOTH Florida senators are now lining up on the issue, favoring the rec fishermen: http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050809/NEWS01/508090430/1075

DennisW
August 10th, 2005, 10:34 AM
I must have read this thread when it was posted nearly a year ago. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone else or I did not say something about the possibility of contracting ciguatera poisoning from eating Jew Fish. Larger predator fish build up the ciguatera toxins in their systems and the resultant ingestion of that toxin can make you extremely ill.

Florabama
August 11th, 2005, 11:10 PM
I must have read this thread when it was posted nearly a year ago. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone else or I did not say something about the possibility of contracting ciguatera poisoning from eating Jew Fish. Larger predator fish build up the ciguatera toxins in their systems and the resultant ingestion of that toxin can make you extremely ill.

I've never heard of ciguatera in any of the groupers. I'm 50 years old and have been eating fish all my life including some very big gags, blacks and jewfish (when they were legal) and have never contracted any ill effects. I do avoid baracuda, but lots of people around my neck of the woods eat them and don't get sick.

Krusty
August 12th, 2005, 10:37 PM
Its only a crime if you get caught. LOL just joking. But what is a jew fish and how in the hel did it get a name like that. Sems pretty racist to me.

Florabama
August 13th, 2005, 11:59 AM
Its only a crime if you get caught. LOL just joking. But what is a jew fish and how in the hel did it get a name like that. Sems pretty racist to me.

I don't know how the jewfish got its name. That's an interesting question, but what it is, is a giant grouper -- the biggest of all the groupers.

http://www.corpusfishing.com/images/Jewfish.jpg

http://www.diveclub.org/gallery_photos/underwater/gulf-pegasus/jewfish_gcw.jpg

Krusty
August 15th, 2005, 01:46 AM
that is a huge fish, i wonder how many a fish that size would feed!!!!

TwoBitTxn
August 15th, 2005, 09:15 AM
The term Jew fish has never been intended as inflamatory, though way too many in this PC world have taken it as such. That is why the name was recently changed to Goliath Grouper.

Popular belief has it that it was called a Jew fish due to the fact that since it has scales it is ok to eat by Kosher law. Jews are allowed to eat this fish, thus called Jew fish, or something to that effect.

TwoBit

Rick Murchison
August 15th, 2005, 09:29 AM
I've never heard of ciguatera in any of the groupers. I'm 50 years old and have been eating fish all my life including some very big gags, blacks and jewfish (when they were legal) and have never contracted any ill effects. I do avoid baracuda, but lots of people around my neck of the woods eat them and don't get sick.Ciguatera in grouper isn't a problem in the Gulf. It is, however, a problem in tropical coral reef communities from time to time. The risk is higher with Barracuda, but even they are not prone to harboring ciguatera in the Gulf.
Rick

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