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diver371
December 4th, 2004, 12:46 PM
hello everyone... i am on the quest of finding the right gear for me. i encountered the mares hub today. very interesting idea and very nice. mind the sales pitch :p

any hub owners?
what do you guys say about this system?
is it dangerous to have everything inside?

Jay

JeffG
December 4th, 2004, 02:11 PM
hello everyone... i am on the quest of finding the right gear for me. i encountered the mares hub today. very interesting idea and very nice. mind the sales pitch :p

any hub owners?
what do you guys say about this system?
is it dangerous to have everything inside?

Jay
No hub owners...I think they all died ;)

Very Interesting...Yep
Very Nice??? Nope

Hub a dub dub (http://www.scubaboard.com/t1214-.html)

cancun mark
December 4th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Hey Jay,

You will find LOTS AND LOTS of differing opinions about the HUB, particularly if you use the search function on the board.

While I admit, they look pretty cool when they are in the hands of a clever retail salesman, they are generally considered the "Edsel" of dive gear. Over engineered, more complicated than needs be, with more potential failure points than a standard set of dive gear.

I would recommend saving your money and investing in a better set of standard equipment.

jonnythan
December 4th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Has Mares removed them from their product line? They don't seem to be on the Mares website anywhere... perhaps that's why the salesman was giving you the sweet talk :eyebrow:

Bottom line, avoid them like the plague.

rubbachicken
December 4th, 2004, 02:49 PM
hi there
i have seen a german couple on my trip to the maldives who were both using mares hub BCD's, they looked alright, but i'm not sure i'd use one, during a buddy check i had a looksee and i'd don't think that they would be dangerous to use, but like said before
i'd go for seperate bits, long before i'd go with one i think

;)

jonnythan
December 4th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Both second stages are supplied by a single LP hose that goes into a splitter box buried somewhere in the back of the unit. Lose that hose, lose your primary and backup second stages at the same time. I can't find the picture right now, but.. it's pretty scary. The octo also seems to stow *inside a pocket* you have to unzip to deploy. That's kinda scary too. And I'd say it's dangerous.

Keysdrifter454
December 4th, 2004, 03:27 PM
what do you guys say about this system?

Jay

Just one thing:

I hope you liveŽ...

cancun mark
December 4th, 2004, 03:39 PM
and that whole deflator/inflator unit thingy on the left hip uses cables that are like the cables on bicycle brakes. I am very dubious about how they hold up to corrosion, and how you could check them for wear before they failed.

cyklon_300
December 4th, 2004, 03:41 PM
is to dive gear as your shower cap is to fashion accessories...

Paul Evans
December 4th, 2004, 05:00 PM
and that whole deflator/inflator unit thingy on the left hip uses cables that are like the cables on bicycle brakes. I am very dubious about how they hold up to corrosion, and how you could check them for wear before they failed.

I agree with the past comments about the hub, but not this one about Airtrim, The system works and is reliable. It uses air pressure to work the system, Everytime you get on a train or coach you put your life in the hands of good old tried and trusted hydrualic systems.

Hey Mark, how many more times can you get you name into a PDF :D

rubbachicken
December 4th, 2004, 06:34 PM
is to dive gear as your shower cap is to fashion accessories...
that's funny :lol2: :lol2:

crpntr133
December 4th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Can't do a search on SB unless the mod squad has changed the way the search works..it won't search three letter words. I have seen a hub and yes they are neat looking but I draw the line there. There are way to many negative aspects of this unit..too many to list.

All in all, DON'T BUY ONE!! For what you would pay for the HUB you could buy some decent gear that would be more reliable.

Tamas
December 4th, 2004, 07:56 PM
Friend of mine dives with one, heck he did quite a number of dives on and is still alive! Take everything you hear here with a grain of salt, the are a lot of people that like to shoot off their mouth about things, yet have no first hand experience with the subject matter.

From what I know and have experienced, the HUB is a very nice unit for the recreational diver. It fits very nicely and performs great. The airtrim system is the best thing on that BC, you can dump in any direction and it works well. The main reg has it's own hose/routing and the octo, while stowed away in a pocket, it is simply held in with a 1" velcro strap - so getting to it is very simple. So in short, they are good BC's perhaps not as easy to look at and work on as others but as long as you keep up the service they should last.

My $0.02 would be to try one under water and then draw your own conclusions, while taking some of the above mentioned tid-bits into consideration.

diver371
December 4th, 2004, 08:15 PM
well i am just looking for a simple diving system. i went to another marine shop that sold scubapro. and since the mk2+ r190 was loved by everyone. i found that i might buy that. but should i get a standard scubapro bcd? or get a mares vector bcd? i love diving and in a month or two will be spending a lot more time in the water than i have before. i don't want to empty my savings on expensive complicated dive gear. the simpler the rig the safer it is. another reason for that is i might go technical next year. i still don't know what i will do at the moment..

thanks for your comments..

and if anyone says anything about the shower cap.. i might have to go all crazy on yo @$$!


cheers
Jalal

Boogie711
December 4th, 2004, 09:26 PM
If you're even THINKING about going technical in the future, save yourself the time, hassle and money and get a BP/Wing setup now. They're great for single tanks, but are almost a requirement for tech diving.

For the cost of a HUB, you can do a lot better.

Vie
December 5th, 2004, 02:59 AM
If you're even THINKING about going technical in the future, save yourself the time, hassle and money and get a BP/Wing setup now. They're great for single tanks, but are almost a requirement for tech diving.

For the cost of a HUB, you can do a lot better.

Wow, 15 replies before the BP/Wing suggestion shows up! I agree with Boogie711 though.

Terence of Arabia
December 5th, 2004, 04:41 AM
I did a CBL on a buddy who was using one just so I had the experiance and found it to be an easy method of controll. Plus my right hand was low on my buddies body and so it was easier to hold her close to me. After saying that, others say that as its different we should keep clear. But then didnt somebody say that about the single hose verses twin hoses a few years ago and insisted all of his divers used twin hose sets.
I would think that for recreational diving its a nice compact piece of kit with very few "Dangly bits". Something most divers seem to have.

Paul Evans
December 5th, 2004, 06:31 AM
Wow, 15 replies before the BP/Wing suggestion shows up! I agree with Boogie711 though.

Yip, and it had to be Boogie :D

Northeastwrecks
December 5th, 2004, 10:57 AM
Friend of mine dives with one, heck he did quite a number of dives on and is still alive! Take everything you hear here with a grain of salt, the are a lot of people that like to shoot off their mouth about things, yet have no first hand experience with the subject matter.

From what I know and have experienced, the HUB is a very nice unit for the recreational diver. It fits very nicely and performs great. The airtrim system is the best thing on that BC, you can dump in any direction and it works well. The main reg has it's own hose/routing and the octo, while stowed away in a pocket, it is simply held in with a 1" velcro strap - so getting to it is very simple. So in short, they are good BC's perhaps not as easy to look at and work on as others but as long as you keep up the service they should last.

My $0.02 would be to try one under water and then draw your own conclusions, while taking some of the above mentioned tid-bits into consideration.

My only experience with a HUB was having to rescue someone when he overbreathed the regulator. There were additional problems caused by the non-standard hoses and the joystick.

You couldn't pay me enough money to dive that rig.

I understand that everyone has personal preferences. When I organize a charter, I understand that people may be using equipment that I would not use for my personal diving. However, there is only one piece of gear that is not allowed on any trip I organize. You guessed it, its the HUB.

The Kraken
December 5th, 2004, 11:34 AM
I think one of the most often overlooked concerns here is not from the aspect of the user's safety, but from the aspect of the buddy's safety.

Most divers are trained to look for the AAS in the "golden triangle" and so forth.

Now, given that the buddy can be familiarized with the HUB set up in a pre-dive equipment check and review (if it takes place at all), if one is diving with a group and encounters a panicked diver other than one's buddy, things can go very wrong very quickly with a gear configuration such as the HUB.

Please understand that I'm not stepping up on the DIR soap box here and saying everyone has to have a gear configuration of exactly the same arrangement, but what I am observing is that the HUB fall outside the accustomed gear configuration set up for the vast majority of divers.

It seems to me the Mares brought this product to market after watching too many science fiction / Star Wars movies - purely opinion . . .

It causes one to wonder how a stressed diver would react while trying to assist a more stressed diver while using a rig such as the HUB. I would hope the wearer would do a great deal of practice in a confined water environment simulating emergency situations in order to learn and facilitate quick deployment of the emergency gear.

It is the sole responsibility of the diver to purchase his/her equipment based upon the knowledge s/he has acquired along with advice received from those with more experience. Along with the diver's responsibility to himself comes the burden of responsibility of his buddy in peril.

Boogie711
December 5th, 2004, 12:51 PM
Hey - in my defence, I'm hardly the biggest BP/wing pusher around here (especially lately.) I shut up until the term "technical" showed up (not that the BP/wing is a tech rig) but I think everyone agrees that buying a HUB ESPECIALLY if he wants to get into tech is a bad, bad idea.

Paul Evans
December 5th, 2004, 01:12 PM
Hey - in my defence, I'm hardly the biggest BP/wing pusher around here (especially lately.) I shut up until the term "technical" showed up (not that the BP/wing is a tech rig) but I think everyone agrees that buying a HUB ESPECIALLY if he wants to get into tech is a bad, bad idea.

I'm only teasing ;)

detroit diver
December 5th, 2004, 09:53 PM
Boogie only got to it first because I didn't see the thread start!!

diver371
December 6th, 2004, 08:55 AM
for a bcd.. should i go for something simple like a cressi S112 or go for even a super basic scubapro 500??

diver371
December 6th, 2004, 12:18 PM
i started another thread realising that i didnt really need to .. and i wrote that quick reply as well realising that i should have read above.. so what exactly is a BP/Wing set? why is it different from a standard BCD? the only bp/wing set i can get here is the Halcyon. is Halcyon a good name in diving? anyone own one?
do i need to dive with a different regulator etc.. when i use a BP/Wing?

btw thanks a lot for this info guys..

Jalal

jonnythan
December 6th, 2004, 12:26 PM
The Halcyon bp/wing rocks. It has a metal backplate, making it negative in the water, allowing you to wear less lead. The harness is simple, robust, and foolproof. It's incredibly stable on your back. There is zero bulk and the entire unit completely disappears underwater. It's free of things that get in your way and slow you down.

You wear it the same way as a "regular" BC, your regs can be the same, etc etc. I highly recommend the system.

Halcyon produces high quality products, and if that's what's available that's what I'd buy. It's what I use.

MSilvia
December 6th, 2004, 02:12 PM
so what exactly is a BP/Wing set?
Basicly, you have a metal plate with harness webbing attached to it, and an inflatable BC wing gets sandwiched between the plate and your tank(s). It doesn't show the tank, but here's a rough drawing of the rest of the rig.
http://home.comcast.net/~msilvia7/bpwing.gif

why is it different from a standard BCD?

It's more stable underwater, is simpler to maintain, is easier to customize, and is less prone to failure.

is Halcyon a good name in diving?
Yes. They're pretty widely respected, and I use one of their wings for single tank diving.

do i need to dive with a different regulator etc.. when i use a BP/Wing?

No, you use the same kind of tank, so the same kind of regulator connects to it. Many people who use this kind of rig opt for a longer primary hose than is typically used by recreational divers, but it's a matter of preference.

scubapolly
December 6th, 2004, 03:02 PM
i started another thread realising that i didnt really need to .. and i wrote that quick reply as well realising that i should have read above.. so what exactly is a BP/Wing set? why is it different from a standard BCD? the only bp/wing set i can get here is the Halcyon. is Halcyon a good name in diving? anyone own one?
do i need to dive with a different regulator etc.. when i use a BP/Wing?

btw thanks a lot for this info guys..

Jalal



I don't like the hub system for a number of reasons, several of which have been posted others which haven't.

1. First of all I don't like the air trim system. While it is a good design, it is not what most divers are used to, in an emergency situation when I needed to deflate my B.C. that is not where I would reach. However if you are a brand new diver you might not find it as ackward. To me it is the equivalent of a car with the breaks located on the turnsignal.
2. I don't like the idea of having everything all in one. If you want to get a new BC you need to get a new reg, and vice versa. I have a TV/VCR combo like this. The VCR went out, now I have a VCR combo sitting ontop of another VCR.
3. Because they are a bit of a novelty, should you have a gear problem on a dive trip it is unlikely you will be able to find some one with spare parts, or who knows how to fix the HUB.
4. As previously mentioned, the regulator set up worries me first of all connecting primary and back up regs is just stupid. I have not read specs reguarding this, but it seems like the 2 regs comming off of one LP hose could create an issue with sufficent flow if sharing air at depth. (if someone knows more details on the specs of the reg please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken here). Second the octo is not located in a "normal location".

You mentioned an interest in tec diving. Definatly avoid the HUB. It is completely wrong for this type of diving.

My preferece is to the Dive Rite Trans Pac. http://www.dive-rite.com/products/bcd/transpac.htm It is much more comfortable than the metal back plates (However you do lose the weight of the plate- if you are diving warm water this is a little less of a concern since you don't have thick wet suit or dry suit buoyancy to offset). Prior to purchasing my harness and wings, I tried a variety of different harnesses and various webbing configurations, but all were quite uncomfortable, the trans pac is more comfortable than my recreational gear. They (Dive Rite) also offer a wide range of bladders to accomidate different gear configurations (most companies do this). Other manufacturers I would recomend include OMS http://www.omsdive.com/index.html Halcyon is also a good company.

For regulators, I like SCUBAPRO. MK18/G250 is a relatively inexpensive model. You can't go wrong with APEX regs either, but they are considerably more expensive. Dive Rite also makes some decent regs. If you want to get in to tech diving I would avoid Mares, I have a proton which I now only use in the pool due to problems with free flows at depth. If you are diving cold water I would also avoid Oceanic Regs, they are great regs in warm water, but I had 2 students free flow Oceanics on the same dive in cold water.

Hope this information helps.

Polly

diver371
December 6th, 2004, 03:03 PM
wow that was a great beginner's guide MSilvia. Thanks for your info... are BP/Wing sets more advanced ?

jonnythan
December 6th, 2004, 03:05 PM
wow that was a great beginner's guide MSilvia. Thanks for your info... are BP/Wing sets more advanced ?

No.

The Kraken
December 6th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Actually they're a throwback. They were introduced with the platypus . . .

roakey
December 6th, 2004, 03:16 PM
The existing HUB note:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t1214-.html

Have fun, over 300 replies, which is still better than repeating everything in this note (yet again).

Roak

Paul Evans
December 6th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Boogie only got to it first because I didn't see the thread start!!

LMAO :D

Paul Evans
December 6th, 2004, 03:27 PM
For another option check this out

http://www.deepseasupply.com/

I am sooooooooooooooooo tempted ;)

MSilvia
December 6th, 2004, 03:46 PM
wow that was a great beginner's guide MSilvia. Thanks for your info... are BP/Wing sets more advanced ?
Yes and no. They are made out of more durable materials, and give a diver more configuration options, so they're suitable for any kind of diving from beach dives with a single tank to the most demanding mixed-gas deep cave and wreck dives. In the sense that they allow a diver to do more advanced dives, yes.

However, since it's basicly just a 4 meter piece of webbing threaded through a steel plate with a tank and air bladder strapped or bolted to it, it's a very simple minimalist rig. It has what you need without adding a bunch of stuff you don't. While it allows advanced diving, it's easy to work on and customize, and is suitable for beginning divers too. In my opinion, they're easier to use.

It's a great system for advanced divers, but it isn't accurate to say it's for advanced divers only. As Kraken said, it's a bit of a throwback... people have been using similar harness setups since before divers used BCs at all.

Paul Evans
December 6th, 2004, 04:13 PM
Yes and no. They are made out of more durable materials, and give a diver more configuration options, so they're suitable for any kind of diving from beach dives with a single tank to the most demanding mixed-gas deep cave and wreck dives. In the sense that they allow a diver to do more advanced dives, yes.

However, since it's basicly just a 4 meter piece of webbing threaded through a steel plate with a tank and air bladder strapped or bolted to it, it's a very simple minimalist rig. It has what you need without adding a bunch of stuff you don't. While it allows advanced diving, it's easy to work on and customize, and is suitable for beginning divers too. In my opinion, they're easier to use.

It's a great system for advanced divers, but it isn't accurate to say it's for advanced divers only. As Kraken said, it's a bit of a throwback... people have been using similar harness setups since before divers used BCs at all.

Some people would argue that the evolution of the BC started to degenerate when the jacket came along :06:

diver371
December 9th, 2004, 12:43 AM
ok well... what's the difference between an aluminium backplate and a SS backplate. i know one is heavier.. but what difference does it make?

I have decided to go for the Halcyon Pioneer wing.. any objections to this choice?

Jalal

diver371
December 9th, 2004, 12:47 AM
oops a quick thing to add.. repair... how has it been with others? i'm guessing since it's not such a complicated system then the repairs were not serious? does it cost a lot?

jonnythan
December 9th, 2004, 12:47 AM
What difference does a 4 pound weight on your weight belt make? Is it irrelevant?

I have a Pioneer. It rocks.

detroit diver
December 9th, 2004, 12:53 AM
oops a quick thing to add.. repair... how has it been with others? i'm guessing since it's not such a complicated system then the repairs were not serious? does it cost a lot?

Repair a backplate? You'd almost have to run over it with a truck to damage it. I'm not sure if a truck would actually break one of those things.

diver371
December 9th, 2004, 05:59 PM
Repair a backplate? You'd almost have to run over it with a truck to damage it. I'm not sure if a truck would actually break one of those things.
does the backplate dig into your body while diving?

well what about the wing? Can it be damaged easily?

Boogie711
December 9th, 2004, 06:02 PM
OK - with all due respect, this has been discussed here ad nauseum.

May I recommend http://www.scubaboard.com/search.php?searchid=924268 - that will keep you busy for weeks.

diver371
December 9th, 2004, 06:05 PM
Thanks boogie!


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