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SterlingDiver
January 22nd, 2005, 07:56 PM
So the other day I am out "googling" around the internet and I am trying to find info. on diving the Great Barrier Reef and I come across a dive operators website that has a link to an article about diving with salt water crocs. Unfortunately, the shop must be out of business because all of the links on their home page were dead.

Here is my questions:

a) Do divers really dive with these bruts? They get almost as large as great white sharks.
b) If so, has anyone on the board done so? Is it a reasonably safe thing to do or is it like a few divers (insane??) that snorkle or dive outside the cage with great whites in South Africa?
c) Does the thought of this appeal to anyone else as much as it does to me??
d) alternative dives with other species? IE alligators, caymen, etc.

Let me know your thoughts and experiance.

Dave

archman
January 22nd, 2005, 08:06 PM
I've heard about an acrylic tube that divers stick themselves inside to look at crocs... functionally similar to a shark cage. Problem is, the waters that crocs like is so turbid that you don't see the croc until it's pressed against the cylinder.

I'll take great whites over saltwater crocs anytime. Crocs are bloody dangerous.

DennisS
January 22nd, 2005, 10:10 PM
Our ship pulled into Darwin and our divers were preparing for a hull dive. One of the divers asked a local about the sharks. He was told, don't worry about the sharks.................the salt water crocs ate them. I wish I had a camera to catch the looks.

The boat ramps have warnings not to launch your boat at the same time every day because the crocs will get to know your schedule. Really!!!!!

GDI
January 23rd, 2005, 09:47 AM
I've been in the springs with alligators (some big bad boys) and sharks but crocs are a different story. You are most certainly on their food chain list. They are very aggressive and territorial.

crpntr133
January 23rd, 2005, 11:20 AM
I know someone that WAS going to dive an inlet in Mexico until one of the locals showed them what a salt water crock will do with chum.
Someone else on SB posted a question about crocks/gators in FL. It was posted later that the crocks will leave you alone as long as you don't approach them.

Donnie
January 23rd, 2005, 12:32 PM
It was posted later that the crocks will leave you alone as long as you don't approach them.

Well... HECK!!! What's the fun in THAT! ;)

SeanQ
January 23rd, 2005, 06:49 PM
Get Steve Irwin to be your dive buddy. At least you'll be okay. :)

crpntr133
January 23rd, 2005, 07:27 PM
Get Steve Irwin to be your dive buddy. At least you'll be okay. :)


By crocky he's a big one!! Watch me as I dive under him and rub his belly while donating my octo to my DB. If the crock floods my mask I will simply squeeze him and use his breath the clear my mask.

H2Andy
January 23rd, 2005, 08:36 PM
Someone else on SB posted a question about crocks/gators in FL. It was posted later that the crocks will leave you alone as long as you don't approach them.


that's absolutely true for Florida alligators and crocodiles, with some caveats:

1. during mating season, they are much more territorial and are dangerous

2. after mating season, they guard their nest, so... don't go hear
their nests

3. if you are small (i.e. a child), you are a target for the larger ones

4. if you are a dog and near the water, you are a target

5. if people start feeding them, they'll come out looking for food and
may attack because they're not afraid of people any more

the Florida crocs live in the extreme south of Florida; the rest of the state
just has gators. i've seen tons of gators, but never a croc.

alligators have a "blunt" or "roundish" snout, whereas crocs have a "narrow"
or "pointy" snout and you can see the teeth even when they have their
mouths closed.

Nemrod
January 23rd, 2005, 08:55 PM
Alligators are not generally as aggresive as crocidiles. I grew up on a lake in La. We had alligators all over. They never bothered me but on the one occasion one went after my dog I killed him with my rifle by walking up to him and putting the muzzle on his skull, he had come out of the water and was after my dog. Essentially they would often sun themselves on our boat dock and in order for me to use the dock I had to go kick them and pull their tails till they left. I wish I had a picture of a gator in NW La. recently over 15 feet long that killed a deer and was swimming with the critter in it's mouth. Gators will charge and they can move real fast.
I note that the dive shop you tried to contact was not responsive to your inquiry! That may be the result of their having been eaten by a crocidile! I would avoid saltwater crocs, fw gators are not so much a problem. N

DennisS
January 23rd, 2005, 09:23 PM
Saltwater crocs were very rare in south florida but preservation efforts are having an effect. Several have been seen around biscayne bay and two have taken up residence on the U of Miami campus. They caught one but the other has managed to avoid their best efforts. I imagine in a few years there will be some problems, kind of like reintroducing grizzlies into an area. It should be interesting.

Trisha
February 1st, 2005, 12:00 AM
Nemrod, here you go... got a b-i-g pair of boots...?
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_gator_deer3.htm

crpntr133
February 1st, 2005, 01:21 PM
The accompanying text is false, however. The photos weren't taken at Cross Lake, Louisiana. Jenkins says she was about 40 miles south of Savannah, Georgia, on her way to start a prescribed fire at Harris Neck National Wildlife Refuge, when she spotted the gator making off with its lunch from her helicopter (which does not belong to KTBS-TV in Shreveport, by the way).

My question is, what was she doing with the deer in the helicopter in the first place?

H2Andy
February 1st, 2005, 01:28 PM
Jenkins says she was about 40 miles south of Savannah, Georgia, on her way to start a prescribed fire at Harris Neck National Wildlife Refuge, when she spotted the gator making off with its lunch from her helicopter (which does not belong to KTBS-TV in Shreveport, by the way).

My question is, what was she doing with the deer in the helicopter in the first place?

hehehe... talk about a misplaced modifier. good one. and how did
the gator get into the helo to get her deer?

"when she spotted, from her helicopter, the gator making off with its lunch."

Allison Finch
February 1st, 2005, 07:45 PM
I saw a great pic of a small crock checking out a photographer in PNG. A smack on the snout with the housing sent it on its way. Good thing it wasn't one of the biggies. I've dived areas in PNG with mangroves all around that would be perfect habitat, but have never seen one. I know they were there because we were eating an awful lot of crock meat on that trip. YUM!!

WaterDawg
February 1st, 2005, 07:49 PM
I did a report once for my Marine Biology class about salt water crocs, the biggest has been 33ft and they are mean and eat anything. You couldnt pay me to do it.

The Kraken
February 2nd, 2005, 08:17 AM
Salt water crocodiles are not indigenous to North America. The crocodiles found in the souther part of Florida are caymans. They don't get to be very large.

Many people often confuse crocs and alligators.

H2Andy
February 2nd, 2005, 12:59 PM
hmmm.... not sure i agree there, Kraken

both cocrodylus porosus (salt water crocodile) and crocodylus acutus (American
crocodile) belong to the crocodylidae family.

the caymans belong to the alligatoridae family, and are related to the American alligator (alligator mississippiensis).

the American crocodile is in fact a crocodile, not a cayman, and is often
called the "American salt water crocodile," and is indigenous.

maybe you are thinking of caiman crocodilus (common caiman),
which WAS introduced into Florida from Central America.

The Kraken
February 2nd, 2005, 01:08 PM
Yep, that would be the one.
But we don't have the genus of the one like in Austrailia, right???

H2Andy
February 2nd, 2005, 01:11 PM
lol no!

WaterDawg
February 2nd, 2005, 01:57 PM
Hes not asking about FL he asking about the GBR.

H2Andy
February 2nd, 2005, 02:49 PM
i've addressed questions about Florida alligators/crocs/caimans
posted as part of this thread, though i am aware that the original
question was about the GBR.

boulderjohn
February 2nd, 2005, 06:16 PM
What is called a salt water crocodile, or saltie, in Australia, is not really a salt water crocodile. It is more properly called an estuarine crocodile. Here is a link: http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/jeffcorwin/carnival/lizard/estuarinecroc.html

This is one very nasty critter, and people do die from its sudden and ferocious attacks. Australians give it plenty of respect. As its name implies, its home is the dark and ugly brackish water found in estuaries. It can live in salt water, though, so it frequently will check out the coastline for suitable prey.

If you are thinking of diving the GBR, though, relax. They don't go around patrolling the sea. Their ventures into salt water are generally close to home.

archman
February 2nd, 2005, 07:02 PM
What is called a salt water crocodile, or saltie, in Australia, is not really a salt water crocodile. It is more properly called an estuarine crocodile. Here is a link: http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/jeffcorwin/carnival/lizard/estuarinecroc.html

"Estuarine Crocodile" is a common name just like "Saltwater Crocodile", and therefore not ranked under taxonomic standards of accuracy. But they're both perfectly valid as common names. Saltwater croc lives in saltwater, which may or not be "brackish". Brackish water is still "saltwater", it's just not "oceanic saltwater". Technically anything over 0.5ppt can be construed as saltwater, but that's getting really silly.

To be quite honest, I have never heard of the aussie croc referred to as an "Estuarine Crocodile" ever, even in taxonomic reporting. It must not be popularly used. "Estuarine" doesn't really roll of the tongue easily or quickly, hence it's paucity in common name listings. I can't think of a single species off the top of my head that has "estuarine" or "estuary" as part of the common name, however there are a great many that incorporate it into the species name (i.e. estuarensis).

That weblink is displaying a species name incorrectly. It's a very common mistake, however.

H2Andy
February 2nd, 2005, 08:48 PM
What is called a salt water crocodile, or saltie, in Australia, is not really a salt water crocodile. It is more properly called an estuarine crocodile.

well, "estuarine crocodile" is just another common name for C. porosus (also
known as the saltwater crocodile). they're one and the same.

other common names for C. porosus are Australian Saltwater Crocodile, 'Saltie', Indo-Pacific Crocodile (not generally accepted), Singapore small grain (probably due to resemblance to C. siamensis), Baya, Buaja, Buaya maura, Gator (regional Australian name, not to be confused with A. mississippiensis), Gatta Kimbula, Gorekeya, Kone huala, Jara Kaenumken, Pita Gatteya, Pukpuk (Aboriginal name), Rawing crocodile, Semmukhan Muthlelei, Sea-going crocodile, Subwater crocodile, Man-eating crocodile

(got the info here: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/brittoncrocs/csp_cpor.htm
i'm just an amateur)

according to the article, though, you're right that, technically speaking, it's
not an "open sea" (i.e. 100% salt water species). it does have a high
tolerance for salt water, and it can travel over hundreds of miles across sea
routes. however, it prefers to hang out in either brackish water near the
coast or inland rivers and swamps.

DennisS
February 2nd, 2005, 09:12 PM
South Florida has the american crocodile, not as nasty as the Australian or Nile croc. I was glad to read that.

http://www.npca.org/marine_and_coastal/marine_wildlife/crocodile.asp

archman
February 2nd, 2005, 09:33 PM
according to the article, though, you're right that, technically speaking, it's
not an "open sea" (i.e. 100% salt water species). it does have a high
tolerance for salt water, and it can travel over hundreds of miles across sea
routes. however, it prefers to hang out in either brackish water near the
coast or inland rivers and swamps.

You are correct Andy. Aussie sea crocs aren't oceanic. But it and the American croc are so salt tolerant, it doesn't make much difference. Many of the coastal habitats these critters prefer living in are pretty dang saline, easily approaching and often reaching full sea strength (33-37ppt).

The aussie sea croc is the only living form that routinely swims out in the ocean. To see true sea crocs, one would have to go back in time to the Jurassic, and catch a metriorhynchid sea croc. But they look more like sea monsters. Many folks wouldn't immediately recognize them as members of the crocodyliform clade. Then again lots of extinct crocodyliforms lines would have this problem... few would believe that hoofed "panzercrocs" galloped around the early Cenozoic, chomping ancestors to deer and horses. I love panzercrocs.

H2Andy
February 2nd, 2005, 10:12 PM
lol, i love the name "panzercroc"

and now, Edwin Rommel and his Panzercrocs perform "The Producers"

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