How Deep do you Dive?

[LilmanHSU]

This might of been asked before, but I've never read the posts.

How deep do people here ususally dive? I know some like to keep it recreational and not dive more than 75 feet.. But then there are those die hard divers who want to stretch the limits on strange mixes of air, rebreathers and such.

Me personally. Ususally between 25-90 feet.. But it changes depending on the conditions.

[scuberd]

My deepest so far has been 86, but I usually dive about 50

[LilmanHSU]

Mine to date has been 107 but that was just for a few minutes.

[WreckWriter]

I don't think you're going to get many answers here from folks that go truly deep. The main reason being is that many people, including myself, think that it can be dangerous to publically state such things because others might then think "Well, he did it so I can too" and then not be able to manage it.

I wouldn't want that on my conscience.....

Maybe I'll be proven wrong and folks will start giving you big numbers but I doubt it.

Tom

[divedude]

My deepest was 180' on a wall. the wall go's to 240' but I was on air with a single 80 and a 13' pony.
No!! I wouldn't do it again I was a lot younger and a lot dumber
:stupid:
Now 85'-120' is were most of my diving is. That's the average depth of most of our dive sites.

[moxie]

This question begs for some opinions.

I don't "usually" dive at any particular depth. I dive the depth required for the dive site, within the recreational limit of 130 feet, not to go to that depth as a reason all by itself. For example, if you go down to the Keys and doodle around on most of the reef dives, you'll be between 30-80 feet. If you dive the Eagle, you'll need to go to 120 or so, near to 130 on the sand. The walls on Grand Cayman regularly see dives of 130 feet with swim-throughs starting at 60-70 and exiting the wall just about at 130. We recently dove Dominica, however, and I don't recall going deeper than 85 feet. I know that deeper than about 80 feet is considered a "deep" dive and carries with it some extra issues such as possible narcosis and the need for better buoyancy control. This is why you have AOW training, to prepare you for these isssues, beyond what you learned in BOW. I can tell you, though, that I have seen many dive to 130 feet right after BOW because they were at a resort where the profile pretty much dictated it. "Don't worry, be happy, mon!" But clear, warm, water dives just finning along with a DM at 130 feet are not nearly as dangerous, potentially, as 70-80 foot dives in cold, turbid water with a bad current. Depth is only one of many factors you have to consider in planning a dive. Moxie

[Scubarescuepd]

ok lets be rational.. most recreational diving is between 60-100
anything pass 100 i'd say you're getting into some dangerous stuff, plus lets be honest here what is there to see at great depths. most sea life is above the 75 ft range.

i personally think this is a dangerous question make a poll.

you're gonna get some young person thinking hell if he could do it then i can too.

Please think back to basics and Dive only within your certification and experience. Also don't forget that diving within your physical limitations as well.

i'll end with this a basketball player maybe good, but they are not Micheal jordan. same goes for diving...

a diver maybe good, but you are not Cousteau :)

Dive safe live longer and maybe you'll be 100 yrs old with stories of your own.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
"Well, he did it so I can too" and then not be able to manage it.
Actually Tom's is a valid consideration....
Most of our dives are <110 fsw and almost always on EAN32....
Deeper diving for us pushes the logistics up to the point that the dive really has to be worth the effort....
Saturday we did a wall dive planned at 160 fsw for 25 minutes....
Total time including deco was 54 minutes with a max of 167 fsw....
We each had double 104s with 21/35 trimix and a single AL40 50/50 deco bottle...
***don't try this at home***
Could we have done the dive on a single tank of air?
Only as a meaningless bounce dive.
Could we have had just as much fun using a single 104 of EAN32 at 60 fsw?
Yes... definitely.

My point: don't do deeper dives just to say that you did them... that really is not wise... if you want to do deeper dives then you will need training, equipment, and lotsa $$ and soon you find that you could have just as much fun for less $$ and a lighter equipment load just by keeping it within recreational limits. In fact most of the good stuff (around here anyway) is <60 fsw.

[Welshman]

Mostly in the range 40' to 90', which is where most of the sea life is. As others have said there is no point going deep just to say that you went deep. It cuts your dive time down and my aim is to have as long a dive as is commensurate with it being enjoyable.

[LilmanHSU]

In regards to WreckWriter's point about not having a lot of opinions about it. And Scubarescuepd 's comment about being a dangerous poll.

The people who are checking off the boxes, but not explaining themelves are doing more harm than good.

We can use this poll just like we can use any other. If a person is reading this saying, if he can do it, why can't I? Is either 1. not certified, or 2. a beginner, and shouldn't even consider diving deep.

Same opinions hold true if they read posts on the Nitrox, Tri-mix, rebreathers (which as I understand, can kill you if not used correctly) or Cave Diving section of this board.

A person might describe their experience to a T about the latest ship wreck they ventured on at 250 feet, and not even mention the fact they were breathing special gas, had special training, and special gear.

Would I (as a recreational diver only) say, "I can do that?" and do it.

No way, diving 101 described in good detail the effects of depth, DCS, and pressure on the human body. Not to mention the training, equipment and experience required to acomplish something like this.

I was mainly curious in this board to see if a majority of the users were recreational or technical divers and what their experiences are. Maybe a comment or two from someone will spark some interest in other readers and get them out there to take their AOW or Technical courses so they too can do this.

Also, many people have already been saying its not a good idea to dive deep without the knowledge necessary to do it safely. ( I tend to find that this board places a high value on safety, because everyone is always talking about safety when discussing an aspect of the sport) For that I totally agree, and many people make references to that all over the place on a variety of subjects.

Everyone who dives or is thinking about it should always remember to stay within limits.

I, for one, am enjoying this discussion.. Its sparking a lot of interesting comments about our sport.. Why not discuss it? It is a part of diving right? And why not give some positive information to new divers.
-Paul

[diverdown50401]

As long as I remain in the safe limits of my dive tables and I do not go beyond my training and experience then there should be no problems.

As an advanced diver I am allowed to go down to 130ft. Do I have to? NOPE but I can if I want to because I have received the proper training to do so. That is the key. And if I am diving with a person who has not received the same training as me of course I will not encourage that person to exeed their limitations or qualifications.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by LilmanHSU
In regards to WreckWriter's point about not having a lot of opinions about it. And Scubarescuepd 's comment about being a dangerous poll.

We can use this poll just like we can use any other. If a person is reading this saying, if he can do it, why can't I? Is either 1. not certified, or 2. a beginner, and shouldn't even consider diving deep.

Would I (as a recreational diver only) say, "I can do that?" and do it.

No way, diving 101 described in good detail the effects of depth, DCS, and pressure on the human body. Not to mention the training, equipment and experience required to acomplish something like this.

I, for one, am enjoying this discussion.. Its sparking a lot of interesting comments about our sport.. Why not discuss it? It is a part of diving right? And why not give some positive information to new divers.
-Paul

I agree it's an interesting discussion. I also think my point is being proven, at least so far, in that most of the answers have come from people who's deepest dive is less than or slightly more than 100'. I've seen the "recreational limit" mentioned several times. That's good.

If you don't think people will take on things beyond their skill level then you should read some dive accident reports. People WILL do it just because they think they can get away with it and because it will be "cool". Some will succeed, others will make the local paper. It happens very regularly.

Tom

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Scubarescuepd
what is there to see at great depths. most sea life is above the 75 ft range.

Wrecks. What other reason is there to dive? ;)

Tom

[LilmanHSU]

Wrek,

I agree fully that those who knew they were diving too deep for their own experience, might not say so..

But then again, I phrased the title of the poll, How deep do you like to dive?

In other words, are you a tech diver, or rec diver.. so far, its a large majority of rec divers..

[socaldiver]

I have gone to 100 fsw but really don't care to go that deep, unless what I am trying to see is at that depth.

Usually I am between 20 fsw and 75 fsw. That is where I find the most marine life to shoot pics of.

I am not a maverick who goes deep just so I can "brag" how deep I go. Boasting is not my cup of tea, diving with the marine life is what it is all about for me.

[voidware]

How deep do I like to dive?

Well, I like to dive to 50 (just where snorkling becomes useless, for me anyway) that way I can stay down basically forever when on 36% or 40%, be warm, and safe. However in the real world, I may have to dive down to 75 or 120 feet to see what I am after. I don't get as much time and it is much riskier.

I voted 100+ because that is the max depth for most of my dives--atleast the ones I don't do in the quarry (I stay above the thermocline--right now its ~25ft)

brandon

[ChrisF]

I typically 'like' to dive in the 50 to 75 foot range.

I have been as deep as 120 feet a few times and have been to 100 feet on several occasions when what I was going to see happened to be that deep.

As others have said, the focus should clearly be on doing dives that you find enjoyable and that you have the training, experience, and ability to perform. If you do that, then the deepest dive is just another mildly interesting statistic, like coldest dive or longest dive.

[ebbtide]

i am under 100 .
for my own reasons but at some time in my life ide like to go beyond , not beacuse i wanna say i did it but to gain the knolage on doing it deeper ! but i like my scallop diving between 50 to 80
thats the zone i am most comfortable in :D

[Dolphinus]

My deepest was 200 ft on a single 80 air cylinder....this was when I was curious, young, dumb and stupid. Looking back, I would say I am just lucky to be here today. My dives now are conservative, I stay in the 50-90 feet range. This is where you find most of the marine life, at 200 feet you see mostly sand, and your thought processes functions slow. Dive safe;)

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Dolphinus
at 200 feet you see mostly sand, and your thought processes functions slow. Dive safe;)
Dolphinus....
You only think you saw sand....
Truth be known....
:D

[Dolphinus]

Uncle pug, When I dove 200 feet, it was a bounce dive so I didn't really explore. I dove with just compressed air and not with a special kind of blend

[eanxdyver]

My favorite dives are between 80 and 110 ft. Not for any desire to go deep but because the vis is generally better and the darn zebra muscles are a little thinner. I have been deeper and enjoyed it and I have also spent 2 hrs at 30 feet watching critters.So I guess my point is "whatever's appropriate".
:yea:

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by LilmanHSU
This might of been asked before, but I've never read the posts.

How deep do people here ususally dive? I know some like to keep it recreational and not dive more than 75 feet.. But then there are those die hard divers who want to stretch the limits on strange mixes of air, rebreathers and such.

Me personally. Ususally between 25-90 feet.. But it changes depending on the conditions.

How deep I dive depends on what the goal of the dive is and what equipment, gases and surface support is available..

When I'm divin around home most dives average between 100 and 150, but I have no problem going deeper if thats what the dive requires.. My deepest dives were in the 100m range (330 ft), I have lost count on how many 200+ dives I have done, but again it all depends on the goal and the support available.. I woun't do a 100m dive if there isn't an adequate surface team, a proper dive buddy, helium, and plenty of 02 available..

[100days-a-year]

Mostly between 70' and 115 ' on air ,sometimes eanx.have been as deep as 240' in wrecks and spearfishing... always on mix.If you are dumb enough to do these dives without the proper training,gear and support then Mssrs. Murphy and Darwin will probly argue to see who gets to kick your silly _ss.If you survive and glorify it hopefully someone here will tell you what an IDIOT you are.Notice the previous mentions of deep diving on air with no redundancy(at 200' 13cuft ponies ain't redundancy)were very sheepish admitting it.We've all done some similar bonehead act and hopefully I'll admit my foolishness as humbly.

[devilfish]

A chimpanzee can dive deep, it takes a well disciplined experianced and well trained diver to make the ascent. Dive for a reason not for the depth.

[noshow]

It depends on what the point of the dive is. I have been to 95' and it was just to go to 95'. I love hanging at 40 as well as swimming through braincoral at 70'. The deeper however the shorter the dive... ;-0 So that is something to consider. Just get me under!!!!!

[Bigberg50]

My deepest dive was loggeg at 126 feet at Superior Producer in Curacao. Mt deep dive for AOW was at 107 feet at GC. Typically 80 feet.

[JustAddWater]

I've been as deep as 125 feet in the South Pacific, but typically my dives are between 40 and 70. In agreement with an earlier statement, my most interesting dives (as far as viewing sea life)have been in less than 60 feet.

[buff]

I dive wherever the marine life is..................

And that usually means down to 120-130max-sunlight, and sea life, in general is greatly reduced beyond that.

[sharpenu]

I prefer to dive the area between 60 and 80 feet, as I get the most bang for my buck there. Diving EANx, I get the benefits of longer NDL, and my SAC is such that I run out of gas on a two tank dive right about when I run out of nitrogen time. (About 2 60 minute dives with a 45 minute SI)

I used to dive wrecks, as I didn't see what was so interesting about going deep (I have seen the 150 fsw mark), but now I enjoy the large amounts of life on the reef. It never ceases to amaze me how MUCH life is there.

Having been in the Navy, I just no longer find ships all that interesting. IMO, diving deep wrecks like the Doria just to say you have been there is what Freud would have thought is a "mine is bigger than yours" issue.

So, now I usually keep it above 100', with occasional EANx trips to 110 or so.

Remember, there are many old divers and many bold divers, but very few old, bold divers.

Stay safe!

[HDrider]

On the location I do enjoy diving deep it is incredible when the vis is really good to fall onto a deep wreck or deep reef when you see it coming it is awesome. I have never been sky diving but it has to be similar.

"Dive till it hurts Hang till it quits"

Tom

[NetDoc]

the comments have been very cautious and meant to inspire safety and not recklessness. This is what I would expect from the members of this board.

A year or so ago, this was brought up... the best reply was "I have been to the bottom". Too funny. As you contemplate descending deeper, whether for curiosity or for thrill seeking, please take time to read these threads...

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8504&highlight=narcosis

and

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5499&highlight=narcosis

and

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4412&highlight=narcosis

and then search the threads some more for narcosis and narcotic... That is your real enenmy when you dive deep.

[Norm]

The vast majority of my dives are COLD and in the 100' - 150' range, (some shallower, some deeper). Some of my most enjoyable dives have been less than 20' and some of my most intriguing dives have been past 200'. Hopefully, they're all great, if done properly.
Norm

[luckydiver3]

I normally dive between 50-75. I don't go deeper becuase that just means that you can't stay down as long. I've been down to 80. (I can't go any deeper because I'm not over 15. ) ;-0

[divegirl]

I have been to 128 feet in Roatan. I prefer 50 - 75 feet since there are more critters, more time and less computer watching. Actually, whatever the group is doing is OK with me.

:nod:

[Jarhead]

All my ocean dives have been out of Panama City Beach in the 65-80fsw range. Actually my deepest dive to date has been at Morrison Springs...in the cavern...with my instructor...84ffw.

KD4RFA

[LilmanHSU]

Thanks Netdoc..

I figured this would spark some intresting comments.

After all, isn't that why we post here? To find out what others think?

[Aquamore]

....... unless of course we happen to have a shovel with us
:)
I like your poll, it was a good idea and should show some interesting trends.

Aquamore:jester:

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by NetDoc
the comments have been very cautious and meant to inspire safety and not recklessness. This is what I would expect from the members of this board.

That's because most of the deep divers are not answering, either for the reasons I initially mentioned or for fear of getting their heads handed to them for DIW.

Tom

[MikeFerrara]

Just an opinion... I think 100+ is to deep for an al 80 and air. When I do 100ft my 2 nitrox filled 104's, training and deco gas gives me the means to stay out of trouble and relax and enjoy myself. knowing you only have a short time and not much safety margin is not fun to me.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Just an opinion... I think 100+ is to deep for an al 80 and air.

I agree. Single tank deep diving is truly a bad idea.

Tom

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
I agree. Single tank deep diving is truly a bad idea.

Truely DIW...

Tom did you notice that when we had a post of *200 ft on a single 80 air cylinder* we didn't hand him his head...

That was probably because the post also contained the words dumb stupid lucky :D

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug

Truely DIW...

Tom did you notice that when we had a post of *200 ft on a single 80 air cylinder* we didn't hand him his head...

That was probably because the post also contained the words dumb stupid lucky :D

Correct, he handed out his own head first :)

I'm also still used to other lists where heads are removed more often. Here it's done in a nicer way!

However though, I still think that a guy who does deep air, with proper equipment and techniques (disregarding the air itself...) is going to be reluctant to share his or her feelings on this subject. That applies not just here, but in any public forum. I KNOW there's a bunch of folks out there doing it but they're mostly silent now-a-days. Probably this is for the ultimate good.

Tom

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
I KNOW there's a bunch of folks out there doing it but they're mostly silent now-a-days. Probably this is for the ultimate good.

Many permanently...
And I agree with you...

[WreckWriter]

True, many permanently. Natural selection perhaps. I can only do my best not to add my own name to that particular list.

Tom


Originally posted by Uncle Pug

Many permanently...
And I agree with you...

[Solomon]

I am new to this board but really I don't personally see what all the fuss is about when talking about 100-130 foot dives. Now for me I have done several dives at these depths (123 being the deepest) because that was what the dive site and plan called for. Maybe I am just lucky but I did not notice any narcosis on my dives. I understand that others may get narced at 85 so then it would be an issue. It seems to me that the training agencies have created this myth about 100 feet. To me that is dangerous because really there is no real difference between 100 feet and 85 feet (with the exception of increased chance of narcosis). It is sort of like the sound barrier. Because of this fictional bogey man many divers get hung up on artifical benchmark when they shouldreally be more concerned with how comfortable they feel about their skills in the context of the dive. If they feel narced then go shallower. As for what is there to see at these depths - on some sites plenty. Dive the oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico and the really big fish are at these and greater depths. I have done some 100+ wall dives as well and there was plenty to see. Don't dive deep just to dive deep because as others have said it does decrease your bottom time if using air. However, don't be afraid to because of some arbitrary benchmark. Go by how you feel as a diver. As an aside, I am only BOW and do not believe it takes any special training to dive 100-130 feet. I am as careful at 40 feet as I am at 120. Like I said, there is no real difference between 100 and 85. My 2 cents (or was it a dime).

[Uncle Pug]

Hey Tom, where's my head chopper?

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
Maybe I am just lucky but I did not notice any narcosis on my dives. I understand that others may get narced at 85 so then it would be an issue. It seems to me that the training agencies have created this myth about 100 feet. To me that is dangerous because really there is no real difference between 100 feet and 85 feet (with the exception of increased chance of narcosis). It is sort of like the sound barrier.
Solomon just because you could not discern the narcotic effects of the nitrogen doesn't mean that you were not impaired... it just means that you lack discernment. Narcosis is not a threshold event like the sound barrier as you suppose. As the PP of nitrogen increases so does the narcotic effect and it is insidious in that it first of all robs you of awareness. Your circle of awarness diminishes and though you can (at the earliest stages) still focus clearly on what is central to your thinking you are oblivious to your surroundings. Those with discernment can regonize this at much shallower depths and can compensate to a degree for the impairment. I know guys that can pick up on what is happening as shallow as 60 fsw... not by what is seen or felt but by what is not. It takes practice.

But narcosis is just one of the hazards that diving deep on a single cylinder of air presents. It is the other hazards that will get you into real trouble... and narcosis could keep you from being aware of the situation and taking preemptive action. The chain of events that finally leads to a diving accident needs to be stopped at the earliest possible moment. Narcosis might not kill you... but it might cause you to be unaware of the little events that trigger the cascade of failures.

I believe you when you say that you are as careful at 40 feet as you are at 120 feet... the opposite unfortunately is not the case no matter what you think.

And interesting experiment which few will get the chance to try but would actually be a big help in teaching discernment:
At 80 fsw breath for a few minutes off of a helium mix and then switch back to air.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
Hey Tom, where's my head chopper?

Hehehe, he didn't get narced because he hasn't been deep yet. I've got him beat on a snorkel =-)

Seriously, you both make good points. Solomon's right, little difference between 85 and 100. I agree with this. On the other hand, I like your statement "Narcosis might not kill you... but it might cause you to be unaware of the little events that trigger the cascade of failures". That's quotable!

When I talk about deep diving, I don't mean 100'. That's not deep.

Tom

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
When I talk about deep diving, I don't mean 100'. That's not deep.
Agree...
But look at the post and see what direction he is heading...

[Solomon]

I agree with you that 100, 120 feet is not deep. Others were saying this and that was part of my point. The 100 "depth barrier" is artificial and while maybe not arbitrary certainly does not deserve the importance that many place on it. Now 150 feet and greater is deep IMO.

[Uncle Pug]

Solomon you were all over the place with depths in your first post... mixing and matching from 40 to 130...

Your lead off statement was: "I don't personally see what all the fuss is about when talking about 100-130 foot dives"

How much difference is there between the 150 foot dive that you call deep in your last post and the 130 foot dive of your first post in terms of NDL and gas supply?

I guarantee that if you don't learn what the fuss is about in the 100-130 foot range it won't be long before you are in the 150 foot range on a single tank of air saying the same thing.

Not meaning to insult you here... but I've been where you are and went where you're headed.

Be wise Solomon... be wise.

[Solomon]

well I am mainly differentiating between 130 and 150 on the basis that 130 can be done without it being a decompression dive whereas 150 you would incure some decompression obligation. Also, from what I have gathered effects of narcosis are much more likely at 150. The main point I was making was that 100 feet is not some magic depth. I have seen people post before that they have only been to such and such depth but are hoping to go to 100 on their next trip like it is some sort of milestone. It is not. If you get narced at 90 feet then a person's dives should be done in the context of that factor (as one of many factors that should influence every dive a person makes. Also these factors are dynamic and change every dive). My contention is that some training agencies or instructors have created this mythical 100 milestone. I believe this is dangerous because, while a proper respect for the enviroment we place ourselves in while diving is paramount, creating this barrier can make some people fearful which easily leads to panic should a person find themselves at this depth. Or alternatively, it becomes something to shoot for which can also lead to bad situations. For example, if you tell people you should not or can not dive 100 feet on air it will make some people want to do it (like telling a child not to do something that is the first thing they do). Once they do it and see that it is no big deal then they may also think it is no big deal to go to 150 feet. Now that is a big deal because of the increased odds of narcosis and now we are talking about decompression dive as well. To sum it up, teach people nodecompression diving (which can be done to 130 feet) while explaining the effects of nitrogen narcosis and the increased odds of these effects the deeper you go. With that teaching people to dive within the parameters of their skill and comfort levels and the problem is solved. Personally, I was not taught that 100 feet was some magic depth and never thought it was an issue until seeing people talk about it on message boards. Hell, I went to 117 feet out in the open Gulf of Mexico on an oil rig dive the third dive after certification. Didn't think anything about it. When you give people info that is at best a distortion of the truth and they figure it out on their own then they give little credence to whatever else you told them. That is why I think it is bad for instructors to place to much importance on the 100 foot depth. The emphasis should be on teaching people to dive within their skill and comfort level and it does not take any special skill to go to 100 feet. Does that make any sense?

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
Does that make any sense?
Well it makes sense in that I can understand what you are communicating but I don't agree with you on several points a few of which I will attempt to adress:

1. Narcosis does not hit at a certain depth above which you are uneffected. The effects of narcosis are progressive as you go deeper.

2. As depth increases so does the skill level needed to safely dive that depth. While 100 feet is not a magical number it is easy to remember and forms a benchmark for advancement

3. Every dive is a decompression dive and a dive in the 100-130 range is more so than most realize. The NDL time limits are not magic numbers either and you begin to incur a nitrogen load as soon as you go below the surface... and the deeper you go the faster you take on gas. A problem that develops 130 feet down and 10 minutes into the dive is a serious problem.

However I will add that environment is a big factor....
100 feet in warm clear still water is much less of a challenge than 50 feet in cold murky moving water.

Recently we had a problem 130 feet down in cold murky moving water 16 minutes into the dive.

Solomon I just wasted half an hour fiddling with this post and just about deleted it anyway... but I'm going to send it with the hope that it will do some good.

[Solomon]

I appreciate that and understand the narcosis point you are making. I was being too simplistic regarding narcosis issue. Of course I understand the effects of narcosis are gradual and most everyone has some impairment at 100 feet (even though it may not be readily apparent) but the same could be said at a depth of 80 feet as well. When I was talking about being narced I was referring to the very noticeable impairment. I have been there and immediately ascended several feet. For me I know that feeling and do not continue at that depth. I also am aware that the depth this happens can change from dive to dive. I would be interested in breathing a helium mixture at depth to see the "unoticeable" or "nonapparent" narcosis effects. Sounds like it could be interesting. Also, as you mentioned the conditions and the amount of task loading are factors to consider when diving "deep" on air. That was what I meant when talking about the dynamic factors involved in every dive (including many others).

[kodiak]

I alway thought that it was the amount of time you spent at depth that made it a decomp dive,not just how deep you go.

[Ari]

Sometimes shalower and sometimes deeper. depends on the mood, general feeling, partner, site etc.

Sorry for not getting into the very lively discussion.

Ari :)

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by kodiak
I alway thought that it was the amount of time you spent at depth that made it a decomp dive,not just how deep you go.

It's a combination of both. The shallower you are, the longer you can stay before required deco, the deeper you go, the sooner you get into required deco.

Tom

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
1. Narcosis does not hit at a certain depth above which you are uneffected. The effects of narcosis are progressive as you go deeper.

2. As depth increases so does the skill level needed to safely dive that depth. While 100 feet is not a magical number it is easy to remember and forms a benchmark for advancement

3. Every dive is a decompression dive and a dive in the 100-130 range is more so than most realize. The NDL time limits are not magic numbers either and you begin to incur a nitrogen load as soon as you go below the surface... and the deeper you go the faster you take on gas. A problem that develops 130 feet down and 10 minutes into the dive is a serious problem.

However I will add that environment is a big factor....
100 feet in warm clear still water is much less of a challenge than 50 feet in cold murky moving water.

All excellent points Pug. Narcosis is progressive but like Solomon said there is a point at which you "feel narced". That points varies from person to person and from day to day, influenced by such factors as temperature, work load, general health and well being.

NDLs are definately not magic. Most of the folks I've known who got bent got there on dives between 80-100'.

Tom

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
like Solomon said there is a point at which you "feel narced". That points varies from person to person and from day to day, influenced by such factors as temperature, work load, general health and well being.
Exactly... some days on some dives it is harder to detect... but it is still there... that is why understanding the fact without the feeling is important to safety... dealing with a dive on the basis of its narcotic depth and not on the basis of your fickle feelings.

NDLs are definately not magic. Most of the folks I've known who got bent got there on dives between 80-100'.

That is a stinker... why do you think that is the case?

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
That is a stinker... why do you think that is the case?

I've always wondered if there isn't a glitch in the Haldane tables at that level. I've discussed it with many people (years ago) and many folks had noticed the same thing. I have no idea if this was ever decided to be true or not but I know if I calculate a 90' 30 min air dive on V-Planner I get 3 stops for a total of 16 min deco instead of a direct ascent so it seems the current tables are a bunch more conservative in this range.

Tom

[fredk]

our experience at the chamber in utila was most hits of dcs occured in 30-50 feet and was for the most part instructors working with students.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by fredk
our experience at the chamber in utila was most hits of dcs occured in 30-50 feet and was for the most part instructors working with students.

Caused primarily by multiple ascents I would think.

Tom

[fredk]

multiple ascents and rapid ascents chasing students, most cases involving students was due to lost weight belts causing rapid ascents.

[fredk]

of course that is besides the hits caused by dehydration or drug induced, big problem down there as drugs are everywhere and readily available at all bars and some dive shops.

[voidware]

One thing I haven't noticed is people referencing their deep dives to locations. For example, a dive to 130 in the warm clear water of Grand Cayman would not seem like much of a challenge. On the other hand, a cold murky open ocean dive (ie, northeast wreck) to 80 feet would be an even greater challenge. There is also the fact of greater air consumption, wetsuit compression, and greater risk of dcs in cold water.

I would be much more likely to let my computer slip into decompression (or for that matter, slip over the dive plan) in the carib. than in nasty water.

brandon

[Uncle Pug]

The only case of DCS that I have personal knowledge of was a friend who suffered a serious hit (that fortunately resolved after chamber treatment) from a 90 ffw dive. He was PADI instructor rated and a S&R diver but was doing a solo bounce dive to retrieve something after a first dive. Altitude was also a factor as was personal fitness (overweight.)

Personally I think the idea that *dives between 80-100 feet are no big deal* could be a contributing factor to the statistics.

[NetDoc]

Just for the benefit of any OW students or new divers reading this, let’s take a moment and clarify...

Your NDL (No Decompression Limit) is based on a table that tries to approximate how much nitrogen is absorbed in a worst case scenario for most divers. It is factored in a time vs. pressure format. Being a table it cannot actually measure the nitrogen you have absorbed... it is a good guestimate though.

The bends, or better termed as DCI (Decompression Illness) or DCS (Decompression Sickness), results from either violating your NDL or having some existing predisposition(s) which make the tables inaccurate for you. Things like smoking, being overweight (das me), injuries as well as other things can make those conservative tables not so conservative for you. I do not believe that there is anything such as an "undeserved hit" when it comes to DCS. No, we may not fully understand all of the factors, but they were obviously there. God did not reach down and smite you with this for no reason.

Nitrogen Narcosis or getting "narced" has little to do with NDLs or DCS. It is merely a function of the partial pressure of the Nitrogen you are breathing. This is where I may depart from what has been presented here by some...

Whether you "feel" it or not, narcosis happens! It starts when you hit the water and first becomes noticeable @ 80 ft, increases greatly by 100 ft and should be considered dangerous by the time you hit 130 ft.

:nono: Just because you don't feel it does not mean you are not affected. NO ONE IS IMMUNE. :nono:

If you were drunk on land, you would stagger when you walk and your speech would be slurred. Underwater, you are supported by your BC (no staggering) and by the time you are talking to the fishies it is too late. In other words, those areas that would normally indicate to you and others that there is a problem have been masked by your environment. People are expecting a narcotic euphoria which may or may not happen for you. I will contend that your responses will be slowed and your senses dulled. Your critical thinking and memory will be adversely affected, leading you to think you are all right and forgetting to preserve yourself. As narcosis begins and deepens it leaves you less and less competent to determine your competency to continue. I have been deeper than 130 fsw only once… and almost lost a buddy. Never again, especially since his first words to me on the surface were “I didn’t feel a thing!” There are two divers… those who get narced below 100 fsw and those who are deceived to thinking that they are immune.

End of rant… you can flame me now!

[WreckWriter]

While I agree with your intent in writing this I stand by my statement that narcosis is a personal thing, no two are alike. You lose your buddy at 130, others aren't quite so impaired.

You preach the party line quite strongly, some of us feel there's a bit of room for personal interpretation.

Tom

[Solomon]

Exactly. That was basically my point as well. People should dive within their comfort and skill level down to 130 feet (because, if done properly, can be a nodecompression dive as it is defined). If someone is debilitated at 100 feet then they should modify their diving to incorporate this factor. Myself, have suffererd no noticeable impairment at 120 feet (but that is not to say I will not be narced at 90 feet on my next dive) . There are many, however, who are taught that 100 feet is some benchmark when for some it may be but for others it si not.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
Myself, have suffererd no noticeable impairment at 120 feet
Exactly.
You didn't notice it....
But it was there none the less....
And when the other things you aren't noticing turn out to be the start of a bad day you may never have the chance to correct the situation....
Some of you seem to think that it only begins to matter when you can begin to feel it.... and you miss the point... it matters most when you can't feel it!

btw Solomon.... what kind of NDL dives do you have planned for 120~130 feet? How about an example of time/depth/gas?

[Solomon]

I have done wall dives this deep for 5 - 7 minutes then ascend usually to around 85-80 feet and so on. I usually try to keep my computer out of the yellow (Oceanic DataPlus). By the way, this is only on the first dive of the day when doing multiple dives. Also do this on bounce dives while spear fishing (I admit I will bouce this deep on more than one dive if doing multiple dives fishing). Will descend to 120 feet or so and if the fish I am seeking are not there within a couple of minutes will go shallower. If I had the software where I could download my computer I would post some profiles but I do not have it. Nonetheless, I have never put my computer in deco mode. It is rare that the computer goes 2 bars into the yellow. The times that it has I have done extra long safety stops (7-10 minutes) until it is at least one if not two bars under yellow.

[Solomon]

meant to add that this is on air. Will never dive nitrox spear fishing because the bottom is often 600-800 feet deep. Max I have done on EAN32 is 87 feet.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
meant to add that this is on air. Will never dive nitrox spear fishing because the bottom is often 600-800 feet deep. Max I have done on EAN32 is 87 feet.

****
Because of this fictional bogey man many divers get hung up on artifical benchmark when they shouldreally be more concerned with how comfortable they feel about their skills in the context of the dive.
Why would a bottom of 600-800 feet keep you from diving EAN32?
Why would you max EAN32 at 87 feet?

Hmmm.... I guess we all have our boogey men....

[Solomon]

Why 87 on EAN32? Simple, have not been nitrox certified for very long and that was the depth at the bottom on the nitrox dives I have done. Have been to other destinations since then but nitrox was not available. No bogey man there. As for spearfishing on a rig with an 800 foot bottom-would you want nitrox in your tank while at 105 feet with a 60 pound fish at the end of your gun? They tend to go down when hit with a spear and sometimes you go for a ride unitl they can be controlled. I guess you could drop the gun but that would get expensive fast. I will stick with air while shooting fish deep. If the fish were at 65 feet, which they are usually not, I would dive nitrox.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
No bogey man there.

They tend to go down when hit with a spear and sometimes you go for a ride unitl they can be controlled.
OK...
How deep do they take you?

[Solomon]

I have seen people pulled down 30 feet or more. Certainly deeper than 110 feet. I have never hooked up with one that big at this depth but even a 15 pound snapper can give a good tug. Too big a risk of oxygen hit to mess with nitrox while doing this.

[voidware]

The NOAA exposure limit is 1.6 pO2 for 45 minutes. On EAN32 that is 130 feet. You should plan for 1.4 pO2, but it is not really a problem to drop down to (or even a few feet past) 130. Not that it should be a regular occurence, but it's not suicide.

brandon

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by voidware
The NOAA exposure limit is 1.6 pO2 for 45 minutes
Set....

Spike!

;) nice one Brandon....

[Uncle Pug]

Only semi-off topic since it involves how deep do you dive (on nitrox)

Why is PPO2 of 1.6 set as the max?
Why is PPO2 of 1.6 allowed for 45 min?

[Solomon]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but it appears you believe it is foolish to dive within nodecompression limits on air past 100 feet but then seem to disagree with me not wanting to spearfish at these depths on nitrox where there is a viable risk of being exposed to a PPO of 1.8 or greater. I think I know where you are trying to lead me and the answer is yes. Have not yet but probably will. You got me.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Solomon
You got me.
Well there are several ways to play this Solomon but lets take one at a time:

You are willing to dive air to 120 feet per your previous post...
You are also willing to spear a fish at 120 feet...
You have seen people pulled down 30 feet or more...
You have the potential of diving air at 150 feet or more while trying to control a 60lb fish pulling you deeper...

Questions:
Would you drop the gun? When?
Would you fight the fish? How long?
Would you realize what was happening?
Narcosis...

We can deal with the O2 boogeyman later.

[Solomon]

Like I said. You got me. My hesitation in using nitrox pretty much gives it away that, contrary to my earlier statements regarding diving air to 130 feet only, I am planning or preparing to do just that. Otherwise I should have no roblem in diving nitrox. Let me say that I have not gone deeper than 130 on air to date but to be honest I very well could while fishing. I have seen several do it many times. Not that that makes it right but . . . . Nonetheless, I still think my original point about nodecompression air dives to 130 feet is correct (although nitrox can be a safer gas within these limits).

[HDrider]

I have been following this post for the last few days. I have been trying to say out of it, but with the mention of shooting fish a large fish in somewhat deep water I wanted to put in my 2 cents worth.

Solomon you have stated that narcosis does not seem to effect you at 120’. I think it maybe a good idea for you to read this (http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/pile/cmd.html) before the next time you have been at 120’ feet for say 10 minutes on a single AL 80, and you see a very nice large fish that you just cannot pass up.

I know the circumstances surrounding this article are different than (I would hope) anything you have ever done. But if you were to shoot a large fish at 120 and get pulled down 30 or 40 feet it could be possible to get desperately low on air without realizing and have no choice but to surface way to fast.

The narcosis that you are not feeling could just cause you to go ahead and take that shot when you really know you shouldn’t.
Reading this changed my diving quite a bit, it compelled me to take many long classes and buy lots more gear in order to be a safer diver.


Dive safe and often!
Tom

[MASS-Diver]

I've done a few wrecks around here (in the chilly NE) in 100-110' range on EANx32. Although I haven't felt narced at this depth, I'm sure I was a least somewhat impaired (like the guy who can't feel the 5 beers he had the bar).

Narcosis is the main thing that stops me from going deeper, I have wrecks that I want to do in the 150-200' range, but, I'm holding off for a while untill I can dive TRIMIX.

The only guy I know that got bent did it on a 60' dive well within the NDL (Cold water). I guess he took a hot shower right after the dive and he attributes that to the onset of the bends, he has made a decent recovery and still carefuly dives.

One thing that I think would help the rec "deep" diver was if 50%-100% O2 was more widely avaiable in LDS (I can only get 40% with my PADI NITROX cert and I don't have the $ to set-up my own mixing station). Still, after a 15min dive at 100' in 40deg water I would love to have a bottle an O2 bottle to breath off at 15-10'.

[HDrider]

Originally posted by MASS-Diver
One thing that I think would help the rec "deep" diver was if 50%-100% O2 was more widely avaiable in LDS (I can only get 40% with my PADI NITROX cert and I don't have the $ to set-up my own mixing station). Still, after a 15min dive at 100' in 40deg water I would love to have a bottle an O2 bottle to breath off at 15-10'.

At the certification level you are at that is all you should be able to get.
The classroom portion of Advanced Nitrox was the most intense classroom of any dive class I have taken. I think it was at least as intense as Nitrox Gas Blender. The reason I mention this is to point out that there is a big difference from the up to 40% certification you have and a 100% certification. This is the reason your LDS will not fill your tanks with more than 40%. I am sure if you took an advanced Nitrox course, and get at least one of your regulators O2 cleaned your LDS would be happy to give you a fill of what ever you would like.

Tom

[MASS-Diver]

HDrider,

The LDS around here will not fill more than 40%max, regarless of cert. level.

I really feel that rec divers that are doing non-deco diving in cold water could benefit from breathing 50-100%O2 at saftey stops. I know most board members disagree.
Maybe at my current cert level I'm just not aware of the risks of using 100% O2 (campared with 40%) and I need lots more training before even thinking about not using it, but, my understanding with 100% O2 is:

Use only O2 cleaned/safe tanks/gear
Don't breath it deeper than 10' (label the bottle clearly, use common sense and proper config to prevent from breathing at depth - this is actually properly easier for rec guys with only 1 primary reg and a backup than for tech guys dealing with multiple stage regs).

Am I missing something? I have been told that at my current level, 100% O2 is "none of my business", but, I think it would my diving alot safer.

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by MASS-Diver
Am I missing something?
Yep... several things.

First: MOD for O2 is 20 feet not 10.... and 20 feet is where it is most effective because the PO2 is 1.6 and you get the maximum oxygen window.

Second: Buoyancy skill in holding stops is very important at this point... and is also the most difficult from 20 feet on up.

Third: An Air dive with its huge nitrogen content is not going to be effectively decompressed from using a mix with 50% nitrogen.

Fourth: You are trying to solve a problem that should not exist on a dive to 100 feet for 15 minutes and adding a complication that could result in a serious accident.

Fifth: You shouldn't be diving elevated PO2s (EAN32) in your back gas past the NDL if you then need to deco with gases at a high PO2.

Sixth: Sooner or later you run the risk of handing off or taking the wrong regulator yourself at depth and getting whacked.

Seventh: You know.... HDrider is right.... you should take a decompression proceedures type class if you really want to do this safely... I would recomment DIRF followed by GUE Tech 1.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
Fourth: You are trying to solve a problem that should not exist on a dive to 100 feet for 15 minutes and adding a complication that could result in a serious accident.

All of Pug's points are good but I think this one is most important. Just dive EANx, you don't need the O2 for recreational exposures. The risks outweight the bennies in this case I think.

Tom

[MASS-Diver]

Well, you guys make some good points, but, I'm still not sure. You guys don't think breathing 100% O2 on a deep EANx dive which approcaed NDL limits in very cold water would add a margin of saftey (if the user is properly trained)?

What if I "mess-up" and I stay longer then my NDL (I get tangled/lost/trapped, etc.), you don't think it would advantageous for me to have a bottle of O2 to decompresses with?

I'm not sure about this and it's nice to feedback and I know for most people the answer will be a resounding no, but, I just feel with repetitive diving in cold water with air or NITROX anything that would help me end the dive with less N2 in me would be worth learning to use.

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by MASS-Diver
you don't think it would advantageous for me to have a bottle of O2 to decompresses with?

Yes, of course it would be advantageous for you to have O2 in that situation. Nobody can argue that. My point is that there's too much risk and complexity to carry O2 for planned non-deco dives.

I use 100% for deco myself but for dives which are not planned as deco dives, I do not schlep my deco stage. If I screw up, I deco on my back gas (be it air or EANx). I'm very careful to try to dive my plan though. If deco isn't planned, I DO NOT cut it so close that one little issue on the bottom puts me in the red zone. Can it happen? Sure it can, you just have to be careful.

As to your original point, although it may not seem so, I actually agree with you that O2 should be more available. My personal feeling is that things should be as they were in the beginning, nitrox training is nitrox training.

When I took my nitrox traing, from Dick Rutkowski, the father of recreational nitrox diving, there was only one level (and few practitioners, my number is 949). He taught us all the formulas, blending, analysis, etc without a percentage limit being placed on us. As you know, it's different now.

Certainly there is new knowledge available in a "technical nitrox" type course that wasn't available when I took training. Are the underlying principles still the same? Bet they are. So am I suddenly unsafe to do things I've been doing for years like using O2 for deco? Some would say so I guess.

Tom

[MASS-Diver]

WreckWriter,

Thanks the reply, I appreciate the info and I understand why guys are concerned by people who aren't trained doing foolish things with O2.

My main LDS won't sell NITROX never mind O2 and they think DIR is a joke and openly mock tech divers, so it's nice to get some less biased answers here on the board, as I would probabley be thrown out of my LDS for even mentioning O2.

[HDrider]

What if I "mess-up" and I stay longer then my NDL (I get tangled/lost/trapped, etc.), you don't think it would advantageous for me to have a bottle of O2 to decompresses with?

This is a very good ?

1. When planning a dive like you describe you should always plan on the rule of thirds. This should give you an ample gas supply for this type of problem encountered.

2. There are other things learned in tech classes that help you prepare for such a problem.

3. 100% is not necessarily safer than Nitrox to decompress on. It is however faster. Which in could water could be considered safer.

Originally posted by MASS-Diver
My main LDS won't sell NITROX never mind O2 and they think DIR is a joke and openly mock tech divers, so it's nice to get some less biased answers here on the board, as I would probably be thrown out of my LDS for even mentioning O2.

This one the only thing I could suggest here is to find a different LDS. I would be surprised if all the LDS in your area are that way. I live in a very Dive shop poor area. The LDS in my area I DM out of, I also have become a certified Gas Blender so they can sell Nitrox, but still does not provide Nitrox. I have to drive 2 1/2 hrs one-way to get a Nitrox fill! This being said if you were to come to me wanting a 100% fill I would 1st ask to see your Nitrox certification card. It has the percentage that you are trained for on it. If I were to fill your tank with a higher percentage than you are certified for I am at risk of your surviving wife’s lawyer. This is the main reason for all the precautions.

Point is you need the card to get the fill you are talking about.
When I took my Nitrox training, from Dick Rutkowski, the father of recreational Nitrox diving, there was only one level (and few practitioners, my number is 949). He taught us all the formulas, blending, analysis, etc without a percentage limit being placed on us. As you know, it's different now. From reading his post here, I am sure that WreckWriter is qualified to dive any gas he chooses. But if he goes to a DS that is not local if his card does not say 100% on it he will not likely get it.

Hope this is of use to you. :)

Tom

[ads]

My average dive is approximately 50 ft. During the winter in New England I generally stay a bit shallower averaging maybe 30 ft as it's generally shore diving and I don't want to get caught out too far and be chilled on a long return swim. I find my best photo subjects in anywhere from 15 ft to 40 ft of water.

DSDO

Alan

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by ads
I find my best photo subjects in anywhere from 15 ft to 40 ft of water.
Alan
Hi Alan.... do you have good viz at those depths or do you have to accomodate the bad viz???

and what is DSDO?

[MASS-Diver]

HDrider,

Thanks for the advice, it is very helpful.

[NetDoc]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
and what is DSDO?

Dive Safe, Dive Often (and I know you asked Allen)

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by NetDoc
Dive Safe, Dive Often
Thank You :D

[NEWJ64]

to tell the truth the deepest 90 feet
usually stick around 20-40 ft. any deeper than 75ft is too cold for my blood!!:pirate: :toilet:

[scubagatorgal]

Very interesting thread despite the initial fears that it might incite some to dive beyond their limits. A common question new divers ask experienced divers is " How deep have you been"? My standard answer has always been "deeper than I will ever go again".

Whenever we went on deeper dives it was with very experienced divers and we never experienced any emergencies...thank you Lord. I have noted that many others that contributed to this thread also have not ever experienced a problem at depth. Of course only living divers could contribute and those that had a bad experience are probably not reading this board to report it. The more you dive deep the more the probability that someone you know (maybe yourself) will be faced with an emergency situation at depth.

It was interesting to read the link to the diver that got badly bent and continues to this day to dive to depths below 200 feet...it almost sounded like an addiction to depth to me. As the scenery, color and interesting life disappear at those depth's I can't imagine the attraction (other than a wreck site...and it would have to be a great one to get me enticed) I can't help but think that it is a bit of macho thing as I don't think there are many woman that are as attracted to depth...(no flaming pleeze)

When I was certified in the eighties there were even less woman then than now and I had no trouble keeping up and even surpassing the guys in our circle of divers. When we started caving, deep diving, limited viz etc.. diving I was right in the thick of it with them. The things we did in those days seem foolish to me now especially the depth's we used to dive to.

I no longer cave dive, rarely go beyond 100 feet and enjoy the extra bottom tom and relaxing stress free dives. Adrenaline fixes and beating the boys are a thing of the past.

Now,my concentration is on my teenagers who were recently certified and hopefully guiding them to be safe competent divers for life.



.

[Mike Newman]

No, not really! It's been said elsewhere in this thread - I dive as deep as I need to to complete the dive plan of the day. But always within the no-decompression limits.

My deepest dive to date, shortly after completing AOW, was to 110 feet. It was on a reef wall in the Med and really enjoyable.

Does anyone else agree that (currents and tides notwithstanding) there's a greater tranquillity about deeper dives. The downside - and a reason why I enjoy shallower ones just as much - is the occasional thermocline and the shorter bottom time allowed.

Using my computer (Aladin Sports Plus) I am really getting into the benefits of multi-level diving.

Dive safe!

MN ;)

[divrnr]

I've been going to San Diego diving for close to 17 years and if you dive the walls at La Jolla Shores or Scripps you generally go to 100fsw to 130fsw. I like the wreck dives at wreck alley, like the Yukon, a 366' Canadain destroyer that sits in about 100fsw. Be careful, be trained, and have a buddy you can absolutely trust with your life. If you can't don't go:out: For a great San Diego dive web site check out www.divebums.com

[WreckWriter]

I knew this would happen, nobody has yet admitted to diving deep on air. A couple "I once went a little deep" posts but that's it. Are there really no other deep air divers on this board?

Come on, who's seen 240+? I bet a bunch of you have.....

Tom

[tchil01]

Not yet Tom

This summer will be my first over 130'... on air. Nitrox next year... and then Trimix somewhere down the road.

Ty

[BEM]

Using air - I wasn't there long - nice sandy bottom.

Later on a wall dive I hit 97 feet and thought that I could "break my record and go 5 feet more" Then I came to my senses and remembered a promise to myself that I wouldn't treat diving like a competitive sport. (I get enough of that in my rec hockey league)

Glad I didn't go - there was nothing really to see deeper, it just got darker.

[WreckWriter]

You'll get there Ty. it's not a thing to be rushed. I had over 10 years of diving before I busted 130'. You're on the right p[ath with trimix too, air's not the way. The times they are a changin.....

Tom

[AquaTec]

Well last weekend i was at 400 feet using trimix of course

deep diving on air... Last month 220 feet for 60 minutes and about 200 feet inside the San Fransisco Maru, located in Truk Lagoon found some great china and a couple of old sailors.

there is just no reason to dive deep on air if He is available, but if its not then ..... well you make the choice

[Roooter]

how deep?

I also don't "usually" dive at a certain depth. it depends on the site & what I'm there for.

[Uncle Pug]

... into the personalities and possible motivations of the various posters is an interesting excercise...

While some have stated reasons for posting all have unstated reasons and underlying (usually unperceived) motivations.

A few IMO have real psychological issues that beg for professional help.

Perhaps some of you are aware of what is being revealed in this thread but my guess is that most of you are oblivious to the exposé.

You might want to re-read the thread and ask yourself, "Why did he/she post this?

Then ask yourself, "Would I dive with this person?"

[WreckWriter]

Figuring out the meaning behind Pug's post regarding figuring out the meaning behind these posts is also an interesting exercise.

I'm not certain where he's going (or is it coming from?) with this but I've come to trust his opinion enough to guess he's likely to be right.

Tom

ps- I'm just left wondering if I'm one of those Pug thinks needs professional help

:eek:

[Uncle Pug]

... it is a fairly well known axiom of observation that the observer taints the observed by the act of observing at some level or another...

...and especially now that I have not only called attention to the fact that observation is happening but have openly invited all to participate in observing the psychological underpinnings of this thread...

I suspect that further posts will be largely shaped by that axiom... and it should be revealing to say the least... for the change in a phenomenon by interaction with the observer can be just as interesting as the phenomenon itself...

So what do you all think? ;)

[WreckWriter]

I agree with what Pug said. At least I think I do!

Tom

[Belushi]

Things to remember ...
1) The number of ascents MUST equal the number of descents.
2) There will always be someone who has dived deeper for longer (dont make it a competition)
3) What is deep for you is not neccessarily deep for me and my training, so dont beat me up about it.
4) Dive as deep as you are trained and prepared for.

240 feet in metres is ... 75 metres? That takes planning and preparation and is very possible on air ... Ask anyone who has dived Elphinstone Arch or the Dahab Blue hole in the Red Sea.

Make sure you have all your gear with you though.

[LilmanHSU]

113 Posts and still going.

I've been reading what everyone has written.. This topic goes all over the place.

Lots of opinons.. I hope new divers are learning something from it all.

-Paul

[Mike Newman]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
... some have stated reasons for posting all have unstated reasons and underlying (usually unperceived) motivations.

A few IMO have real psychological issues that beg for professional help.

Perhaps some of you are aware of what is being revealed in this thread but my guess is that most of you are oblivious to the exposé.

You might want to re-read the thread and ask yourself, "Why did he/she post this?

Then ask yourself, "Would I dive with this person?"

Uncle Pug - you are a widely read and respected contributor to this Board. But I think that you may be a little guilty of generalising in your posting on this topic. Yes - there may be some who are boosting their egos in their posts. However, I have taken heart from the submissions of those, who like myself, just enjoy diving - whatever the depth - and don't see it as a competitive issue. There have been some really good discussions about the merits and rewards of diving at different depths. Let's not get too judgemental.

We all decide for ourselves with whom we'll dive. As a newbie - I'm probably more cautious than most right now. I think you'd love to read the article here. http://www.divernet.com/technique/0502buddies.htm

enjoy!

[WreckWriter]

This keeps showing up as a new post so I'm going to post here just in hopes of breaking the loop.....

[WetDane]

Hey UP,
as usual you have somethin' cooking here.
Good thread, I would not worry too much about people's motivation for posting, I sort 'em on the first couple of dives.

Btw - they are twins and the are gorgeous, born to dove, now all I need is a slob winder.

Oh yeah - long time no see - what have you and Shane been up to?

Dane

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by WetDane
Btw - they are twins and the are gorgeous, born to dove, now all I need is a slob winder.

Oh yeah - long time no see - what have you and Shane been up to?
Hey there yourself Dane... I thought you were dead... at least I had seen any post from you for a while...

We been diven man... but I was just thinking about you the otherday... and how you probably needed to go diven with me some since Shane was sick. ;)

So are you trying to tell us your diving double 104s now?

[WetDane]

yes siree, that is right, actually they have been around for a couple of months now, but I rarely ever see you guys down here.

Been diving almost daily for a while now, it's been good but it will end sooner or later, for now it looks like I'm running out of dive buddies...
Also getting ready to run those can lights with NiMH packs, very sleek and very sexy - might be needing some people to test a couple for me... ;-)

Are you coming down for anything anytime soon? Or do I have to get my driving fins on?

Cheers, good to hear from you.
Dane

[Uncle Pug]

And what was that you said about NiMH????? Better PM about that too.

[Scuba446]

No wonder when I asked our BOW Instructor this on our Check Out Dives we got quite a speech about deep diving, ego's in diving and the dangers of teeling divers how deep you have dove to...

Now I can see why this IS so dangerous.

I asked , just from curosity - but not to compete of for that reason. I just know that many dives for the wrecks I'd like to dive one day are deeper than 80-100 ft - and I am just trying to get a handle on whats involved here....we talking deco diving now? Twins vs single AL80's? AL40's as well...computers, etc.

I see the dangers of boasting here to new divers - such as myself....and should NEVER be becauseL

Joe Smith did it so I can...

Its a DEPTH race or contest...

Etc.

[astrofunk]

Lately I've been doing beach dives in Monterey, and I haven't gone much past 40'. On boat dives, it's generally 40' to 60', though I broke 70' looking at a wreck in Victoria. Like others have said, my objective is simply to see cool stuff, and there's plenty of cool stuff in Monterey at very reasonable depths.

That said, I do look forward to the "deep" dive portion of the advanced class. I know others have warned "not to dive deep just to say you've been deep". I'm not thinking competitively, I just can't help but look forward to the learning experience!

[MissAmberDiva]

103 ft is the deepest and that's as far as I will take it. I wasn't even planning on doing 103 in the first place and ended up hurting myself in the process.

Depth is not something you wanna play around with. I think some times people forget that this can very well be a very dangerous sport and if you're not careful of what you're doing then you could end up dead. However, there are plenty of men and women who are more than capable of making deep dives and who practice the utmost safety in the process.

-Amber

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by Scuba446
No wonder when I asked our BOW Instructor this on our Check Out Dives we got quite a speech about deep diving, ego's in diving and the dangers of teeling divers how deep you have dove to...

Now I can see why this IS so dangerous.

I asked , just from curosity - but not to compete of for that reason. I just know that many dives for the wrecks I'd like to dive one day are deeper than 80-100 ft - and I am just trying to get a handle on whats involved here....we talking deco diving now? Twins vs single AL80's? AL40's as well...computers, etc.

I see the dangers of boasting here to new divers - such as myself....and should NEVER be becauseL

Joe Smith did it so I can...

Its a DEPTH race or contest...

Etc.

Diving deep just because Joe Smith did is definately is not a reason.. Deep diving requires experience and training. I have can have as much fun on a 40ft wreck as I do on wrecks in 200-300 feet of water. The shallow wrecks give lots of bottom time with little preplanning necessary, the deep wrecks require extensive dive planning and usually long deco hangs.. This should not be taken lightly..
I personally dive the deepr wrecks because they usually have much less diver impact and when diving at home.. much more lobsters - always a treat...

Take it slow and enjoy your diving... Recreational diving can be very relaxing and satisfying..

[Amanda]

I know it sounds strange, but we French people usually go deeper than our PADI friends. My actual Dive Certification allows me to go up to 65 meters (about 190 feet, but I don't really know what the US measures mean in meters... ;-o ), so that's my maximum depth.

I usually dive around 35/45 meters (105/130 feet)

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by Amanda
I know it sounds strange, but we French people usually go deeper than our PADI friends. My actual Dive Certification allows me to go up to 65 meters (about 190 feet, but I don't really know what the US measures mean in meters... ;-o ), so that's my maximum depth.

I usually dive around 35/45 meters (105/130 feet)

Unfortunately many French divers go to those depths unprepared.. A dive to 65m especially on Air is not a safe dive without the proper redundant equipment.. Air at 65m is highly narcotic, and He is definately preferred..

I travel extensively and when I see these divers doing those depths on a single 80 without any redundant gear, I think What the hell are these people thinking.. A First stage failure can be fatal since its unlikely his buddy will have enough gas for both divers, and at depth a single 1st stage may not deliever adequate volumes of gas.
Everything is fine as long as there are no problems, but when the ***** hit the fan, most of these divers will be unprepared.

Padi OW is good for 18m and AOW for 40m, that is in the ballpark for most other agencies as well.

Even many entry level tech certifications limit dives to 45-50m.

[jepuskar]

9ft is as deep as I have gone. The pool is only 9ft and I haven't done an open water dive yet. :/

But dont worry...

I have my first post-cert dive all planned out!


I'm gonna go down too 300 feet. My tank is gonna have less than 500psi at the start, i'm not gonna dive with a buddy, ohh its gonna be night dive, but im not gonna bring any lights, im not gonna wear a mask or fins, and if I make it down to 300 feet im gonna inflate my BCD all the way and ascend rapidly while holding my breath. :)

[techdiver2us]

Every time I made a jump to greater depths it coincided with training. Advanced Nitrox gives you legal use of deco gas to 100% O2. Extended Range gives you that 200' mark. And Advanced Trimix gives you Helium. Made a dive to 150' on a single 80 in Curacao, but that's about as deep as I care to go without the redundancy I usually dive with. One lesson I've learned is that Murphy's Law comes heavily into play at about 150'. Make sure your gear is good to go.

[KZMAN]

What is it that you are diving to see? Does your dive dictate 150', to the wreck? and are you quailified and are you and your buddy experienced enough for that? Depth, should not be the reason for the dive. Is the dive reason for the depth, and are you ready and able to perform the tasks at hand. Ego, should not be the motivation here:rolleyes:

[landlocked]

It seems to me to be a matter of how much air and appropriate resonses to OOA etc. My opinion: Anything below about 60 feet and an emergency ascent becomes less of an option. Hence, the rule of thirds. Asuming 500 lbs on the boat and an AL80 tank that is only 2500 lbs of air. One third down, one third back and one third for your buddy. That means you get about 1600 lbs there and back. At 100 feet when you are sucking air 4 times faster than at the surface 1600 lbs in an AL80 doesn't last very long. You have a limited amount of time to solve any problems. Dives that deep would seem to demand more equipment. Having certified with SSI deep diver specialty I am supposedly "good" to 130 feet. Sorry but I have never been close. With an AL80 and air I really have no interest in seeing what it is like. Besides, around these parts, the water gets really, really uncomfortable at about 40 feet! (I know I don't want to know what Bear Lake is like at a 130 feet! It got really dark and the 7mil got really chilly when we hit the SECOND themocline at 39 feet!) I'm with techdiver2us. More depth would require more training and an instructor that I could really trust.

[hitomi316]

75ft and i was there before i knew it and fortunately loved it. But my first REAL deep wreck dive at 125ft is coming up next weekend at Pompano Bch. I must say that i am a little at odds with myself over it. I can't wait for the expirience but the fear factor is rising!!Good thing my instructor is great ( i've tested his patience a few times) and i trust him.:)

[WreckWriter]

hitomi316 once bubbled...
But my first REAL deep wreck dive at 125ft is coming up next weekend at Pompano Bch. I must say that i am a little at odds with myself over it. I can't wait for the expirience but the fear factor is rising!!Good thing my instructor is great ( i've tested his patience a few times) and i trust him.:)

Are you doing the Rodeo 25? Don't worry, the dives in this depth range off Pompano are all pretty easy dives most of the time.

Tom

[hitomi316]

yes as a matter of fact i am! we are going to check it out during the day.......then.........we are going to dive it at night as well. i can't sleep uz' i'm so excited!!

[IndyScott]

I only dive deep when I have the proper equipment to do so.
:rolleyes:

[JDostal]

I go deep because I enjoy what is down there, but have had just as much fun if not more on the shallow dives where I can goof off and be silly =)

And oops about the quote up there...I was going to write about something else but changed my mind, hence the edit.

[WreckWriter]

Omicron once bubbled...
And oops about the quote up there...I was going to write about something else but changed my mind, hence the edit.

Gee, now you leave me forever wondering what you were gonna say! :)

[JDostal]

Yeah, I like to keep everyone in suspense.

Makes it interesting...heh :D

[Aquamore]

Apart from the British Army Expedition (Exercise Paddington Bear led by the late Colonel Rod Leigh), to Lake Titikaka (from the Peruvian side) in 1987, how many other divers have dived at this altitude I wonder?

Aquamore

[radagalf]

I like to dive to a depth within my training and experience. If I'm going to Porteau Cove and just want to putter aroudn the Granthall and hopefully see the octopus, then my dive is ~60ft.
If I'm doing the Nakaya (which is the same site), it is ~100 ft.
Yet again, if I'm doing the Power Lines then I'm going to 130 ft.
Why??? Simple, this is where the "stuff", whatever it is (wrecks, Gorgonian coral), is.

Haven't gone deeper than 127' yet... no reason too, I still haven't seen everything above it!!! :D

[AquaTec]

where are the power lines at Porteau

[radagalf]

Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I meant the Power Lines dive in Sechelt Inlet, on the Sunshine Coast. :D

[Nitrox Junkie]

Dolphinus once bubbled...
My deepest was 200 ft on a single 80 air cylinder....this was when I was curious, young, dumb and stupid. Looking back, I would say I am just lucky to be here today. My dives now are conservative, I stay in the 50-90 feet range. This is where you find most of the marine life, at 200 feet you see mostly sand, and your thought processes functions slow. Dive safe;)

Dolphinus
What kind of bottom time did you have on that 200ft dive with an 80cf cylinder?

Jeff

[Lawman]

I wreck dive in Lake Superior and Lake Huron. The wrecks that are in good shape have to be down at least 75' or the ice and waves break them up. We usually go from 75-105' in 42 F water. Those thermoclines really wake you up! I'm looking forward to Coz and deep buy warm reefs.:eek:

[Aquamore]

:(
I think my posting may have been misread, I was talking about Altitude diving not maximum depth.

Altitude diving has problems of it's own due to the atmosphere/air being thinner the higher you go to make your dive. As the atmospheric pressure is less than at sea level the gas coming out of your tissues is more likely to form bubbles (not a good thing) than on surfacing at sea level. (BS-AC have special altitude diving tables for altitude diving.

The lake I mentioned in my posting is the highest Navigble Lake in the world.

I look forward to recieving replies from anyone who has experienced altitude diving.

May your bubbles go forever upwards
Aquamore

[techdiver12]

difine deep what is deep

[Uncle Pug]

techdiver12 once bubbled...
difine deep what is deep
I think that in the case of this thread the question is asking how far below the surface you dive as expressed in feet or meters. Pehaps an answer giving a range of preferred depths as well as maximum depth is the answer sought.

In a different context it could also refer to *penetration.*

[MikeFerrara]

Ya think?

[Aquamore]

....Just to make sure we are all singing from the same song sheet, define altitude dive!

Aquamore