is it just me ????

Disclaimer: This is neither a troll nor a complaint. I wish to relate some experiences and see if others have had similar experiences. Please don't post to this thread unless you can do so constructively. I only wish to hear from people who have personal experience with DIR classes.

I'm thinking that DIR has a lot to offer someone like me ... who isn't really interested in pursuing technical diving so much as using it to improve overall diving skills. But I think the organization lacks a certain amount of, well, organization.

When I took my Fundamentals class last June, I thought it was a bit too rushed. We hurried through the basic drills, and skipped some things that were supposed to be included in the class (like the swim test, SMB deployment, and valve drills). We had a total of eight people in the class, which I thought was too many for one instructor ... given the scheduled curriculum. And Sunday's schedule was truncated because the instructor had a plane to catch, and he left us with a hurried debrief and a promise to come back sometime in the fall for those of us who wanted a re-eval. Nobody passed the class ... we all got provisional ratings.

So a few of us got together, practiced regularly, and have been ready for re-eval for several months now. The instructor never came back. All but one of us is still provisional. Finally, I got ahold of Fifth D and they suggested I contact another instructor for the re-eval. Frankly, the only reason I am pursuing it at this point is because I want to take the Rec Triox class, and passing Fundies is a prerequisite.

So now I'm finding that the re-eval will cost me $100 ... not a big deal, as I don't expect any instructor to work for free. But the big problem is that this is pretty much the "exclusive" instructor for our area now, and his requirement is that I take the re-eval on a week-day ... requiring me to take a day off of work.

That's a deal-breaker. Taking a day off work will cost me more than the price of the class.

It's got me wondering ... I keep reading all these glowing reports about how wonderful the DIR-F class is. Personally, I didn't think mine was all that well organized. We didn't follow the schedule, spent (IMO) too much time talking and not enough time in the water. And my evaluation depended as much on how well my buddies performed as on how well I did ... not very fair when you consider that I hadn't met either of my dive buddies before the class ... one of them was at the time a very new diver, and the other remains to this day a Fifth D "problem child" who hasn't yet figured out what a dive buddy is for.

As I said, the program has a lot to offer. Over time I've pretty much gone the gamut of thinking it was hype, to thinking it was something quite valuable ... and now to thinking there must be a better way.

Frankly, as an instructor, if I make a promise to my students regarding what a class will involve and cost ... I make sure to keep my promises. I can't think highly of a program that doesn't, regardless of the value offered by the curriculum.

From my experiences, I think GUE has some organizational issues to work out. I'd like to see some of that being discussed, because sometimes I think these glowing reports are setting unrealistic expectations for those who are considering the program. I'm not interested in airing "dirty laundry" ... but I do think a well-rounded discussion of an agency provides a better view of what to expect before someone decides to sign up for the class.

Or are my experiences more the exception than the rule? Frankly, I got a lot out of the class ... although it wasn't what I was led to expect. The one thing I didn't get, however, was the ability to continue in the GUE program ... not without it costing me a lot more than the initial investment of $300. And that is what will cause me to decide that additional GUE classes are not in my future.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Maybe they're shunning you because of that faded pink webbing.

Actually, I tend to agree with you. The more I learn about and gain experience with GUE, the more disorganized and batty the whole organization seems. The redeeming thing, IMO, is that the instructors [that I've met] seem genuinely dedicated to what they do and really do know their stuff.

I'm surprised that you're getting charged for a re-eval, though. At the end of my class, IIRC, it was explained to me that I can have a re-eval done for no charge within some time frame (I think it was a year) if I can fit it into the instructor's regular schedule. I wouldn't be happy about getting asked to shell out another hundred bucks.

I wonder if there's even an official GUE protocol for this, or if it's just "whatever the instructor does." I'd guess the latter. I'd probably make my concern known to the instructor, and let him (and possibly GUE) know that I'm looking for another. I wouldn't necessarily bail out of the GUE cirriculum entirely.

NWGratefulDiver:

I'm thinking that DIR has a lot to offer someone like me ... who isn't really interested in pursuing technical diving so much as using it to improve overall diving skills. But I think the organization lacks a certain amount of, well, organization.

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When you refer to the "organization" your issue is really with GUE and FifthD's instructor. DIR in itself is not and organization, just a philosophy or and attempt at another standardization for safe diving practices.

NWGratefulDiver:

From my experiences, I think GUE has some organizational issues to work out. I'd like to see some of that being discussed, because sometimes I think these glowing reports are setting unrealistic expectations for those who are considering the program. I'm not interested in airing "dirty laundry" ... but I do think a well-rounded discussion of an agency provides a better view of what to expect before someone decides to sign up for the class.

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Just like PADI and the other agencies out there, GUE is just a business. I think your feedback is valid, but an open discussion on Scubaboard will probably do little to change things. Direct feedback to GUE and FifthD would probably get better results.

With the provisonal rating are you able to continue with further GUE certification or is the re-val manditory? Seems like a lot of divers only recieve the provisional ratings. Maybe its a valid evaluation or maybe its a money grab. Either way, if you've learned the skills and don't plan on moving further up the Tech chain, don't get too hung up on the label.

You need to actually PASS fundies in order to continue, so if you receive a provisional the re-eval (or retaking the class, as I will do) is mandatory.

I agree with Herman that it sounds like an "instructor/shop" issue, not a GUE issue, but should GUE have policies on re-evals and what to charge students to begin with? Does some consistency and official stance seem necessary, or should it just be left up to the shop and/or instructor?

that definetely sounds like an instructor/shop issue. it sounds nothing like
my DIR-F experience.

sorry bob, sounds like you got a raw deal

first let me say that it's very classy of you to not mention the instructor's name in all of this. What I would do is email or contact the instructor directly and see if you can get the issue resolved. Remember, the squeeky wheel gets the grease...right? Personally, I have never experienced what you are talking about and I can see why you are getting frustrated with this, since I probably would too. Just contact the instructor and I'm sure he'll make it right for everyone.

Bob, when Shane and I took Andrew's introduction to DIR class (I believe it was the second such class ever offered) not only was the cost much less but Andrew even applied the tuition toward our Tech 1 class a year later. Andrew, along with an assistant and a videographer did a further evaluation of Shane and I beyond our week of Tech 1 without charge.

Obviously some of that needed to change, especially with the additional costs involved in bringing in instructors from out of state.

However I would have to agree with you that charging an extra $100 just to evaluate you for the DIRf which is only good for continuing with GUE training seems out of order and is, as proven in your case, counter productive.

The class is rushed even under the best of circumstances and it is not unusual for people to need to spend time practicing before final evaluation. This should, IMO be factored into the class and re-evaluations for DIRf be without charge if at all possible.

I don't know the instructor's schedule nor the class load for this upcoming DIRf but it is possible that there just isn't time to included evaluations of past students at the same time. If the class size permitted that would be the logical choice.

Bob, I think you should do two things.

First, you should contact GUE and give them your feedback on the class.
While GUE doesn't always work super-smooth as an organization, I've been through four GUE classes for four different instructors and I don't have any similar complaints. I was less happy with one of the instructors, but that was not a big deal and was more of a personality thing.

But you should definitely give your feedback to GUE HQ, and to the instructor in question.

Second, you could check if you can sneak in the next time a Fundies class is given locally -- it could at least solve your time logistics issue if nothing else.

As a side-note, as I understand it, the class Bob took was *not* through Fifth D. No shame should fall on them for this story IMO.

Peo:

First, you should contact GUE and give them your feedback on the class.
.

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Yeah, contact their Quality Assurance department..




ps... pre-emptive apology for posting a joke in the DIR forum..

Yeah man seems like you got the short end of the stick, glad I didnt! But you should contact someone higher on the chain.