Deco software

[jimholcomb]

I have Z-planner, V-planner, Deco-planner and have just downloaded GAP. Is GAP the most user UNFRIENDLY program out there or is it just me??? BTW, you can check more than one on the poll.

[WreckWriter]

I agree about GAP. You do realize that Z-Planner is just an out of date version of V-Planner, right? It's been superceded and shouldn't be used is what I heard.

Tom

[Aviatrr]

I found GAP pretty easy to use after I played with it for about 20 minutes. I've run many different profiles through it and Voyager, coming up with almost identical results(to within 1-2 minutes of deco time on 2 hour deco dives). Those figures are with ZERO conservatism. They came within 10% of the US Navy tables, too, and when they were far off they were on the conservative side. I have not yet played with V-Planner or Deco-Planner.

Mike

[Mr Crab]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
I agree about GAP. You do realize that Z-Planner is just an out of date version of V-Planner, right? It's been superceded and shouldn't be used is what I heard.

Tom
z planner is more accurate for shallow dives as v planner is to conservative for shallower dives. Apparantly this will be addressed in the next version of v planner.

[WYDT]

I agree on GAP! Not user friendly.

I use decoplanner most but also found the times to be very similar with decoplanner and v-planner.

One of the coolest things about decoplanner is you can run a set of tables that will give different depths and times. You can print this out and have it laminated and just keep it in your wetnotes for reference. Very handy and beats having to write out the stops by hand! I made one set of tables for 34% and one for 32% I put deco with O2 on one side and without O2 on the other. Just in case some A-hole steals my O2 bottle... or something else unforseen happens to it.

DSAO!

[WreckWriter]

That's a damn good idea.

Tom


Originally posted by WYDT
I made one set of tables for 34% and one for 32% I put deco with O2 on one side and without O2 on the other. Just in case some A-hole steals my O2 bottle... or something else unforseen happens to it.

DSAO!

[WreckWriter]

Interesting. What do you (or the authors of the software) consider as shallow?

Tom



Originally posted by Mr Crab
z planner is more accurate for shallow dives as v planner is to conservative for shallower dives. Apparantly this will be addressed in the next version of v planner.

[DocRCH]

I recently got DPlan on my PDA and so far really like it. It is a "palm" version of DecoPlanner. There are other dive applications for palm e.g. mixing programs.

Robert:doctor:

[Mr Crab]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
Interesting. What do you (or the authors of the software) consider as shallow?

Tom




Here is a message posted to rec.scuba by the creator of the program .
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=v+planner+group:rec.scuba&hl=en&lr=lang_en&selm=25d760cd.0204130903.7378178c%40posting.google .com&rnum=3

Run identical profiles and you can see the difference, for example 80 fsw for 60 you get about 10 minutes less deco on z planner which is closer to the tables.

[erwin.kodiat]

Of all the sofware you guys talking about, can I use it for recreational diving? Although it seems too simple for such software, but I want to know how to determine the decompression stop time.
Thanks

Erwin Kodiat
Kuta, bali

[Mr Crab]

Originally posted by erwin.kodiat
Of all the sofware you guys talking about, can I use it for recreational diving? Although it seems too simple for such software, but I want to know how to determine the decompression stop time.


If you do not know how to determine your deco stop times then I would seek out technical training. There should be no reason that you need to determine deco stops for recreational diving, if diving within the recreational limits you shouldn't incur any deco obligations without pushing the tables or computer to their limits.
Ascend from every dive slooowly and a 5 minute safety stop at 15 ft (this is not a mandatory deco stop this is done for an extra margin of safety if there is a need to cut this short or skip it such as running out of air then do so becase you stayed well within the tables during your dive.) There is more to decompression diving than running tables on a computer there are equipment concerns as well as contingincy planning for potential problems all stuff you will learn with proper training.

[erwin.kodiat]

Yes, you make me realized that actually my current certification level not allow me to dive beyond no decompression limit a.k.a decompression diving. I will find out more about the possibility to pursue certification level in technical diving in my area.
Thanks

[Lost Yooper]

I agree. I don't particularly like GAP either. I like V-Planner.

Mike

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Lost Yooper
I agree. I don't particularly like GAP either. I like V-Planner.

Mike

Good to "see" you! We were getting concerned about you!

New version of v-planner out in the last couple days, 2.0. adds air breaks, lost deco gas options (in a very nice way too). Shareware now though, $20.

Tom

[Lost Yooper]

Thanks. I'm still kickin'. I probably won't be posting nearly as much as I was due to summer's arrival (or so they say :cold: ).

You only have to pay the $20 if you don't have a previous copy, I guess. I just downloaded the latest 2.0. Ross is doing a great job with that program.

Mike

[Dougz]

Any thoughts on Abyss??

Also, can you get these packages for PDA - Compaq Ipaq??

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by Dougz
Any thoughts on Abyss??

Also, can you get these packages for PDA - Compaq Ipaq??

DecoPlan www.gue.com comes in a PDA version. Not sure which PDAs it will run on.

Tom

[Arduous]

I use Abyss and like it, but I don't believe it comes in PDA form

[newwavedivers]

Aside from GAP not being user friendly, which is true, what differences, or even advantages might it have compared with V-Planner 2.0? Oh, exclude price... :)

[WreckWriter]

newwavedivers once bubbled...
Aside from GAP not being user friendly, which is true, what differences, or even advantages might it have compared with V-Planner 2.0? Oh, exclude price... :)

I really can't answer it. I hated the interface so much I never really took the time to do anything with it.

Tom

[mddolson]

I use Abyss.
First advanced nitrox , and now trimix version.

I Like it.

Mike D

:blfish:

[MikeFerrara]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


DecoPlan www.gue.com comes in a PDA version. Not sure which PDAs it will run on.

Tom
The GUE site has a link to a PDA site. All the units listed will run the program. I got one of the cheapies because all I use it for is running Dplan.

[MikeFerrara]

newwavedivers once bubbled...
Aside from GAP not being user friendly, which is true, what differences, or even advantages might it have compared with V-Planner 2.0? Oh, exclude price... :)

Gap is Beullmen with gradient factor deep stops while V-planner is VPM. I don't think gap has any advantages over V-planner but that would depend on which model you feel better using. For the dives I have been doing using Dplan that by playing with the gradient factors I can nearly duplicate the scedule I get with V-planner. The same should be true for GAP. I like to compare how different models handle a given dive. I don't have any RGBM software which is something I will eventually remedy.

[DocRCH]

From what I understand, the WKPP is moving in the RGBM direction. If so, then the DPlan will probably go in that direction also.

Robert:doctor:

[Lost Yooper]

The WKPP was fundemental in developing RGBM with Weinke. They have their own specialized tables.

Mike

[DocRCH]

Yooper: do you think that DPlan will become a RGBM algorithm? Or move in that direction?

Robert:doctor:

[Lost Yooper]

I haven't heard, but I suspect everything will move in that direction. I believe even NAUI is teaching RGBM (since Wienke is on their board).

Mike

[Waterlover]

Dplan will become a hybrid of the tables as they are now and VPM. Not sure when it will be released but I'll post the info if I hear....

[ericfine50]

Just heard from a friend, that Bruce Weinke is coming out with his own deco program. It will be a full blown RGBM and no frills program for windows. That should be interesting to see.

Eric

[WreckWriter]

ericfine50 once bubbled...
Just heard from a friend, that Bruce Weinke is coming out with his own deco program. It will be a full blown RGBM and no frills program for windows. That should be interesting to see.

Eric

waiting to see what the limits will be, primarily as to depth. I'm afraid it may follow NAUI guidelines (220 or so??)

As to the question posted earlier, I do feel that GUE Deco Planner will eventually move to Dr. Weinke's algorythm. I know G3 believes in it and where WKPP goes......

Bruce, what's the answer and when will you release?

Tom

[DocRCH]

I agreee with Wreckwriter, that GUE software will go in the RGBM direction since it is something that they (WKPP) are doing.

Robert

[DIVERDREW]

Although I currently use V-planner, I would like to start using GUE deco planner, I have noticed numerous sites with free downloads on z-planner, v-planner, deco dive planner, proplanner, gap, and some abyssmal demo stuff. Has anyone found a free download for GUE deco planner? Other question why is there so much free stuff out there and the GUE deco planner appears to be impossible to find as a free demo or free download? Any thoughts?

Drew

[WreckWriter]

DIVERDREW once bubbled...
Although I currently use V-planner, I would like to start using GUE deco planner, I have noticed numerous sites with free downloads on z-planner, v-planner, deco dive planner, proplanner, gap, and some abyssmal demo stuff. Has anyone found a free download for GUE deco planner? Other question why is there so much free stuff out there and the GUE deco planner appears to be impossible to find as a free demo or free download? Any thoughts?

Drew

None of the good ones are free, not even V-Planner any more. If you want them free you have to steal them.

I think GAP is still free but I personally wouldn't deco out on it, nor would I deco out on a "demo" version of anything.

They're all reasonably priced. Do you have any idea how much work and time go into developing a program like that? Why should they give it away for nothing?

If you support these guys by registering the programs they might be inclined to develop new and better programs.

Don't be a nickle-rocket.

WW

[cadet diver]

I have Jplan and it works well. I plan on doing deco on it.

[O-ring]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


None of the good ones are free, not even V-Planner any more. If you want them free you have to steal them.

I think GAP is still free but I personally wouldn't deco out on it, nor would I deco out on a "demo" version of anything.

They're all reasonably priced. Do you have any idea how much work and time go into developing a program like that? Why should they give it away for nothing?

If you support these guys by registering the programs they might be inclined to develop new and better programs.

Don't be a nickle-rocket.

WW
What I don't get is why Abyss and GAP are the only ones using RGBM...ARRRRRRRGGGH! I really think BRW's stuff makes sense and want to use it, but, IMHO, Decoplanner and V-planner are lightyears ahead in terms of UI and usability..

[MikeFerrara]

O-ring once bubbled...

What I don't get is why Abyss and GAP are the only ones using RGBM...

Since when is GAP RGBM? The version I have isn't. Whatever I use has to run on a palm...10 times better than lugging a lap-top around.

[lucid]

Beware of decoweenie. I purchased it a couple of months ago for $75. I purchased it with the understanding that it would included free lifetime upgrades. Two months later the creator wanted $25 for version 6. After some people complained he changed the name from DW 6 to Decoweenie + and is charging more. He is dishonest.

Just an FYI.

[ericfine50]

Lucid,
Wait a second - Phi is not dishonest. He worked for a very long time on Decoweenie and yes there was a fee. But DW+ is from what he and others have told me is different from decoweenie and that is why he charged for that program. It may have the same name, but the guts of the program are different.

Eric

[WreckWriter]

lucid once bubbled...
Beware of decoweenie. I purchased it a couple of months ago for $75. I purchased it with the understanding that it would included free lifetime upgrades. Two months later the creator wanted $25 for version 6. After some people complained he changed the name from DW 6 to Decoweenie + and is charging more. He is dishonest.

Just an FYI.

I disagree. DW is a great program, one of the best out there. I've found Phi to be very responsive and helpful. He's just trying to make a buck, he's put a ton of work into this thing.

WW

[lucid]

-
I am not questioning the ability of his software. It may be a great program. But as far as I am concerned he is dishonest. I was treated poorly by him when I questioned what he was doing. I payed more for his program than I did for any other deco software. Then barely 2 months after I payed he wants $25. I have buttons that don't function on the version I paid for and he wants more money. I got into it with Phil and his groupies and don't want to start again. Its just my opinion and you can ignore it if you don't like =]

[lucid]

ericfine50,

I don't care how long he worked on this program. If this was shareware then it would matter. But its not. It is an expensive deco program and he changed the rules midgame. Lots of people said the same thing you did. "He worked so long..", "We are indebted to Phil for all of the hard word...", thats BS I satisfied my debt to him when I paypaled $75 to his account.

[ericfine50]

Lucid,

From what I have been told, DW+ is a completely different program, similar name -but that is where the similarties end. I'm sorry you feel ripped off, but if any of the other deco programs have updates, I am sure you would have to pay for them as well. All of the shareware programs have gone to pay to play. If you feel that ripped, contact Phi, He is not a bad guy.

Eric

[lucid]

I did contact Phil via email. He posted my email on his yahoo group and said he didnt want anymore mail like it. That was his customer service. Honestly I bought DW and Deco Plan at the same time. I just like dplan better and never planned a single dive with DW. I already uninstalled DW so the only thing I lost was $75.

Unlike most people I always register shareware that I use. Mainly to show the developer that I appreciate what they are doing and to show support. Most of the time the lonely software developer appreciates it but every once in a while you run into a Phil that thinks you owe them something and doesn't appreciate your contribution. I have some shareware programs that I registered 5+ years ago and still get free upgrades and support from the developer. Thats customer service.

[O-ring]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Since when is GAP RGBM? The version I have isn't. Whatever I use has to run on a palm...10 times better than lugging a lap-top around.
This was posted by BRW over on techdiver..

Yes, try ABYSS for software right now. GAP is also building an RGBM package, and putting RGBM into a Palm Pilot. Also, I will be making a no frills version of the RGBM available for download our site, RGBMdiving.com. None of this is, nor will be, freeware.

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...

This was posted by BRW over on techdiver..

Yes, try ABYSS for software right now. GAP is also building an RGBM package, and putting RGBM into a Palm Pilot. Also, I will be making a no frills version of the RGBM available for download our site, RGBMdiving.com. None of this is, nor will be, freeware.

Check the pricing on Abyss......... Let's hope Deco Planner doesnt go this way too. Got a bad feeling.......

WW

[O-ring]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


Check the pricing on Abyss......... Let's hope Deco Planner doesnt go this way too. Got a bad feeling.......

WW
...but not lately...is it still a few hundred bucks for the OC trimix version? *shiver*

[WreckWriter]

O-ring once bubbled...

...but not lately...is it still a few hundred bucks for the OC trimix version? *shiver*

Yep.

[MechDiver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


I think GAP is still free but I personally wouldn't deco out on it, nor would I deco out on a "demo" version of anything.

WW

WW, What don't you like/distrust about GAP. I find it to be more conservative than V-Planner, and I think the graphic profile driven interface is nice also.
Once you understand how the templates work, it seems to be a good program IMO.

I have looked at decoplanner and found it awkward and not nearly as nice as V-Planner.

MD

[WreckWriter]

MechDiver once bubbled...
WW, What don't you like/distrust about GAP. I find it to be more conservative than V-Planner, and I think the graphic profile driven interface is nice also.
Once you understand how the templates work, it seems to be a good program IMO.

I have looked at decoplanner and found it awkward and not nearly as nice as V-Planner.

MD

I simply HATE the interface. Its not so much the results I distrust as much as it is my ability to be certain I used the program correctly. Its the most unintuitive software I've ever used to my mind.

I agree, Deco planner could also be improved. I much prefer V-Planner or decoweenie (Palm)

WW

[ericfine50]

I think when Weinke's RBGM comes out, it is going to be a no frills type program. I think I heard a price in the range of 100-145 dollars. Not sure if this is still true.

Eric

[WreckWriter]

ericfine50 once bubbled...
I think when Weinke's RBGM comes out, it is going to be a no frills type program. I think I heard a price in the range of 100-145 dollars. Not sure if this is still true.

Eric

Let's hope the price doesn't go sky high. I'll pay 150 but not 300.

WW

[ericfine50]

WW,
Seriously. If the price is going to go really high. I think we have covered to cost for the source code several times over.

Eric

[MechDiver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


I simply HATE the interface. Its not so much the results I distrust as much as it is my ability to be certain I used the program correctly. Its the most unintuitive software I've ever used to my mind.

I agree, Deco planner could also be improved. I much prefer V-Planner or decoweenie (Palm)

WW

The big thing about GAP is understanding and configuring the templates. I also had a rough time understanding the thing until I finally got the templates. Once you have those understood, you can setup multiple dive parameters and play what-ifs between them.

I have "mplan" on my Palm, which appears to be very similiar to V-Planner. Have a demo of dw but it won't do anything, and I'm not paying $75 for the thing if the demo won't even work.
What desktop program would you compare dw to?

MD

[ericfine50]

WW,

Check out J-Plan for the palm. It is on yahoogroups. It is free and is similar to Ddplan

Eric

[WreckWriter]

MechDiver once bubbled...
Have a demo of dw but it won't do anything, and I'm not paying $75 for the thing if the demo won't even work.
What desktop program would you compare dw to?

MD

No, the DW demo really doesn't allow you to do anything, its kinda dumb. I can't really compare it to any desktop proggie, its much different than any I've used.

WW

[WreckWriter]

ericfine50 once bubbled...
WW,
Check out J-Plan for the palm. It is on yahoogroups. It is free and is similar to Ddplan

Eric

I've heard of it. I have DW and D-Plan now, no real need for another.

WW

[dvas]

has anybody heard of ANDI Dive planner? Or even used it?
I am ANDI certified and I only saw the ANDI output... it is nice. I am not sure thought what algorithm.. probably bulhman, since we learned those tables...
But the price is high... $225 at the andi site.

any experience?
sasha

[DIR Tec Diver]

World record holders, world's best technical and decompression divers = Decoplan

That's all I need to know

It is very user friendly if you read the manual and understand decompression. There are of course good ones out there, but I like the fact that decoplan has been developed by the leaders in decompression diving, they have pushed over what all thought were the limits and proved it worked.

[Doppler]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
World record holders, world's best technical and decompression divers = Decoplan

That's all I need to know

It is very user friendly if you read the manual and understand decompression. There are of course good ones out there, but I like the fact that decoplan has been developed by the leaders in decompression diving, they have pushed over what all thought were the limits and proved it worked.

Dude: Decoplanner is good as far as Buhlmann's basic tenants go and Eric did stellar work modifying that algorithm, but that work is dated. Sure the tables it kicks out are still valid but get a grip. Decompression diving is a moving target and it's moved on... Take a look around.

And who on earth told you that the big pushes in Wakulla were done using schedules from Decoplanner?? :wacko: Or are you referring to some other world record holders...

Doppler

[nradov]

DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
World record holders, world's best technical and decompression divers = Decoplan

That's all I need to know

Can you tell us exactly which world records were set using Decoplan? You do realize that it is only intended as a learning tool, not for planning actual dives, right?

-Nick

[jonnythan]

Doppler once bubbled...


Dude: Decoplanner is good as far as Buhlmann's basic tenants go and Eric did stellar work modifying that algorithm, but that work is dated. Sure the tables it kicks out are still valid but get a grip. Decompression diving is a moving target and it's moved on... Take a look around.

And who on earth told you that the big pushes in Wakulla were done using schedules from Decoplanner?? :wacko: Or are you referring to some other world record holders...

Doppler

Out of curiosity, how IS a dive like that planned?

[nradov]

jonnythan once bubbled...
Out of curiosity, how IS a dive like that planned?

http://www.wkpp.org/decompression.htm

[MikeFerrara]

nradov once bubbled...


http://www.wkpp.org/decompression.htm

Man, I have been all over that stuff! Maybe I'm really missing something but I can't for the life of me figure out how they are comming up with the length of the shallow stops. I have followed GI's instructions and not been able to duplicate the profiles he gives as examples. Any ideas?

[BigJetDriver]

Abyss has, in its Commercial issue, the ability to do extreme depths, PPO2, standard and custom gas mixes, and allows one to choose straight Buhlmann, or use Dr. Bruce Wienke's "wrap-around" RGBM model.

Contact Chris Parrett at <www.abysmal.com> for further information. :)

[vicky]

You can't really use it for subsequent dives, and you don't see any N2 tissue-lading graphs neither. I'm not sure it is wise to go deco using RGBM/Abyss.

[Tibbs]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Man, I have been all over that stuff! Maybe I'm really missing something but I can't for the life of me figure out how they are comming up with the length of the shallow stops. I have followed GI's instructions and not been able to duplicate the profiles he gives as examples. Any ideas?

If they do it like they did on the Britannic trip, they work out The number of Oxygen cycles (12 on 6 off) they have to do as a factor of bottom time and work backwards from there. I saw a presentation that Andrew Georgitsis and Panos Alexakos did about it earlier this year.

George wasn't on the trip but JJ and a load of WKPP members were so I don't imagine they do it too differently in a cave.

Chris

[calado]

What do you think about the new GAP RGBM?
Is it worth the money?

I use the old (1.2) GAP, and v-planner!

Best regards,

[rossh]

New V-Planner v3.20 is now available. Download from

http://www.hhssoftware.com/v-planner/


Release Notes
*****************
NEW features

* Now make an Extended Stop at any mix switch depth.
* Airbreaks for "Clean Up" stops. (break prior to next switch)
* SCR / OC legs for use in CCR plans (bail outs)
* SCR O2 loop drop (FiO2) for SCR planning, and CCR on bail out.
* Multilevel planning for Lost Deco.
* CCR plans now do More & Less planning
* Select the leg for use in ± plans.
* Improved help files
* Improved dive log details

--
Ross Hemingway

[kho]

calado once bubbled...
What do you think about the new GAP RGBM?
Is it worth the money?

I use the old (1.2) GAP, and v-planner!

Best regards,

I think so, but I'm biased. I've made it

Kees

[pwfletcher]

V-Planner is my favorite so far. In CCR mode, it is basically one check box to print your bail-out tables. Very intuitive interface.

[BigJetDriver]

vicky once bubbled...
You can't really use it for subsequent dives, and you don't see any N2 tissue-lading graphs neither. I'm not sure it is wise to go deco using RGBM/Abyss.

It seems to work okay with a heliox load in the Inspiration, but I now have the latest and greatest from Dr. Bruce to compare it to. I'll let you know what I find! Thank you, though, for the cautionary comment!;)