Nitrox Spare Air

[Lil' Irish Temper]

That's right boy and girls, even more of a false sense of security.

Is this old news? When did this come out? I did a search but to no avail.

This is going to be like Jerry Springer when Boogie finds out if it is new. :D

[mossym]

please tell me that is a photoshop job..

[lamont]

you might as well fill it with 100% O2. you're not going to be able to breathe enough out of it to tox, no matter how deep you are...

[NWGratefulDiver]

please tell me that is a photoshop job..

Apparently it's for real ... http://www.diverdiscount.com/spareair.html

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Lil' Irish Temper]

please tell me that is a photoshop job..

Nope,

Model 300PK-N $320.00 @ http://www.spareair.com/product/models.htm

[mossym]

good lord...i presume the nitrox is for extended bottom time..:D

[aquaoren]

Nice. We all should know meanwhile that not everything that is being sold has to make sense. ;)

[Uncle Pug]

Well... it makes just as much sense as the original SpareAir.

[mossym]

even more..now you won't hit ndl if you have to finish your dives on it!!

[Web Monkey]

That's right boy and girls, even more of a false sense of security.
Is this old news? When did this come out? I did a search but to no avail.
This is going to be like Jerry Springer when Boogie finds out if it is new. :D

And after you die, at least your surface interval will be shorter.

Terry

[Daryl Morse]

good lord...i presume the nitrox is for extended bottom time..:DLOL

[cancun mark]

Well... it makes just as much sense as the original SpareAir.

Yeah, spare air was invented for navy pilots when they ditch in water. Not diving. I guess there is always someone who will believe a sales pitch.

[miketsp]

Why only sell 1 model if you can sell 3?
I'm sure some people will buy one of each.
Why isn't there also a trimix version to get you up to your stage depth? :eyebrow:

[Uncle Pug]

Yeah, spare air was invented for navy pilots when they ditch in water. Not diving.
Not according to Larry (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyspair.htm) the inventor.

[Uncle Pug]

Don't you know the 21 reasons to run out of air (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyme.htm)?

Larry missed #1 and it was what led to the invention of the SpareAir salespitch.

[Lil' Irish Temper]

Not according to Larry (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyspair.htm) the inventor.

I have that same dream, only mine involves being eaten by a 50 foot tall Octopus.

[Uncle Pug]

mine involves being eaten by a 50 foot tall Octopus.
Then you must dive the PNW where your dreams can come true.

[Uncle Pug]

What could be better than a twin set of SpareAir Nitrox? How about a mini SpareAir (http://www.spareairxtreme.com/images/ban_r.jpg) to give you time to locate and deploy your SA Twinset?!

[miketsp]

Don't you know the 21 reasons to run out of air (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyme.htm)?

Larry missed #1 and it was what led to the invention of the SpareAir salespitch.

I must be missing something - Why does "Mouthpiece on second stage suddenly coming off regulator" or "Air cut off due to tank valve not turned on all the way" cause an OOA situation?

[Snowbear]

Don't you know the 21 reasons to run out of air (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyme.htm)?
Hehe... almost all of those 21 reasons are easily preventable, negating the need for that "one more breath of air... just one." In the event of an O-ring failure, you can still get that "one more breath of air" from the tank as you are ascending. Anything for a buck I guess :rolleyes:

[miketsp]

Hehe... almost all of those 21 reasons are easily preventable, negating the need for that "one more breath of air... just one." In the event of an O-ring failure, you can still get that "one more breath of air" from the tank as you are ascending. Anything for a buck I guess :rolleyes:

Depends how long it takes you to react. Have you ever had a 1st stage o-ring blowout? When it happened to me at 25m+ all I could think of was "where the heck is that noise coming from?" The noise was overwhelming. I never even thought about looking at my SPG, I was just spinning looking for the source of the noise. Only when I rolled on my back to look up and found myself in a cloud of bubbles did I realise what was going on, by which time most of my air was gone.
But my buddy was there for me so I didn't need a Spare Air.

[mossym]

i know it goes without saying, but that one more breath of air would be as many breaths as i wanted from my buddies tank...seems Larry needs to invent a spare buddy, not a spare air

[NWGratefulDiver]

The Spare Air story ...

Larry Williamson was just a scuba diver on his first night dive when tragedy struck. Out of air at 140', with no back-up air system, and his buddy was too far away. He panicked for a moment and began racing to the surface. His last thought was "If I only had one more breath of air". He blacked out near the surface.


A diver on his first night dive ... goes to 140 feet ... doesn't watch his gauge ... doesn't stay with his buddy ... runs out of air ... races to the surface ... blacks out.

... and out of it my commitment to educate the world about preventable drowning and safe diving.

Nice spin ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Boogie711]

OK - time for a blast from the Scubaboard past, folks:



OK... I've seen a lot of posts saying things like "I like my Air2 because it's one less hose I need" or "I got a hoseless computer because it's less clutter."

I've been doing some serious pondering on the ultimate in streamlining, and getting rid of all these nasty hoses. It's redundant, easy to transport, and get this:

I've managed to get a gear configuration down to ZERO hoses!

OK - you may be saying to yourself, "Self - how does he do that! I'm getting all excited! With my split fins and no hoses, I'll be able to go Mach3 underwater! Look out fish and coral - I'm coming through!"

Well... here's the secret. Forget tanks. Forget regulators. Forget hoses... the wave of the future is... an ammo belt.

I'm going to take a leather belt full of loops - rather like an ammo belt for very large ammunition - and fill it full of Spare Airs.

No SPG needed... I can just swim along, and as it empties, I can replace it with my next Spare Air. No tanks on my back... no hoses... full and complete redundancy. To heck with carrying double tanks - I'm carrying 30 or 40 tanks!

If my buddy runs out of air, I can just hand him 3 or 4 of those suckers, like underwater candy.

What do you all think?

[Snowbear]

Depends how long it takes you to react.
In my Tech1 class we actually trained and practiced these scenarios, so yeah - it wouldn't take me more than a couple breaths to react. Keep in mind, even on a single tank, I still have a backup second stage if the first one goes bad (there were a couple reasons for that in the "21 reasons" list). Even if it were to take me a few extra seconds to realize something's very wrong and start ascending, most any of those non-preventable scenarios don't mean an instant, total loss of air.

In that Larry guy's sales pitch, he talked about how he wanted "just one more breath of air" and invented the SpareAir to give him that. I'm saying that even with most of those failures (including O-ring blowouts), you still have at least that one more breath available without the $300 gadget..... And again, most of the excuses he listed for running out of air are not very difficult to prevent from happening in the first place ;)

[NWGratefulDiver]

And again, most of the excuses he listed for running out of air are not very difficult to prevent from happening in the first place ;)

That's what struck me when I read the Web site testimonials ....

http://www.spareair.com/product/storyby.htm#savedmylife

Most of those scenarios are not only easily preventable, but happened because the divers didn't follow the protocols they should have learned in Basic Open Water class.

No diving product should be marketed as a "bailout for lazy diving habits" ... it's just not the recreational activity where that mindset should be encouraged.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[miketsp]

In my Tech1 class we actually trained and practiced these scenarios, so yeah - it wouldn't take me more than a couple breaths to react.

Yes but those of you that have done Tech1 and those of us that have had a 1st stage o-ring blowout are in a small minority. I'd certainly react much faster next time.
I just wanted to make the point that a 1st stage o-ring blowout is one of the few valid reasons for an OOA among the whole list of 21. Something that really takes most average rec divers by total surprise.

Just curious, how do you simulate a 1st stage o-ring blowout?

[mike_s]

Now this below was just darn funny. heh.




OK - time for a blast from the Scubaboard past, folks:


[Quote]:
Originally Posted by Boogie711
OK... I've seen a lot of posts saying things like "I like my Air2 because it's one less hose I need" or "I got a hoseless computer because it's less clutter."

I've been doing some serious pondering on the ultimate in streamlining, and getting rid of all these nasty hoses. It's redundant, easy to transport, and get this:

I've managed to get a gear configuration down to ZERO hoses!

OK - you may be saying to yourself, "Self - how does he do that! I'm getting all excited! With my split fins and no hoses, I'll be able to go Mach3 underwater! Look out fish and coral - I'm coming through!"

Well... here's the secret. Forget tanks. Forget regulators. Forget hoses... the wave of the future is... an ammo belt.

I'm going to take a leather belt full of loops - rather like an ammo belt for very large ammunition - and fill it full of Spare Airs.

No SPG needed... I can just swim along, and as it empties, I can replace it with my next Spare Air. No tanks on my back... no hoses... full and complete redundancy. To heck with carrying double tanks - I'm carrying 30 or 40 tanks!

If my buddy runs out of air, I can just hand him 3 or 4 of those suckers, like underwater candy.

What do you all think?

[aquaoren]

What could be better than a twin set of SpareAir Nitrox? How about a mini SpareAir (http://www.spareairxtreme.com/images/ban_r.jpg) to give you time to locate and deploy your SA Twinset?!
Already here.
http://www.spareair.com/product/models.htm
Didn't you notice the 1.7Cuft Spare air? ;)

[ranger]

It'll be great for the undertakers....now they will not have to deal with the bubbles when giving you the flushout.

[Hyper-limits]

Why spend money on a Nitrox spareair !! that silly when the Trimix model is just around the corner ;)

[mike_s]

You guys should really create a new thread on this for WhalerKyle titled:

" I would really like to see a Spare-Air Tank Explode".

He might just shoot one for you. :-)

[Uncle Pug]

Already here.
http://www.spareair.com/product/models.htm
Didn't you notice the 1.7Cuft Spare air? ;)
You didn't click on the link I included in my post did you. :D

[Hyper-limits]

You guys should really create a new thread on this for WhalerKyle titled:

" I would really like to see a Spare-Air Tank Explode".

He might just shoot one for you. :-)

Now that would be something see. I'm all for it

[Poseidon8118]

SOLD...


"I'll take eight of them please...and do you know where I can find someone to attach six more D-rings to my BC to hold them......................."

[boomx5]

Just curious, how do you simulate a 1st stage o-ring blowout?

Actually, that is only one of many failures they simulate; and when they do, they use an airgun on the manifold.

[Rick Murchison]

Yeah, spare air was invented for navy pilots when they ditch in water. Not diving. I guess there is always someone who will believe a sales pitch.
Hmmm... I'm a Naval Aviator, active duty from '69-'91; never saw a spare air there.
Rick

[aquaoren]

You didn't click on the link I included in my post did you. :D
Oooops, missed that one.
Must have been too small for my old eye. :D
This one is mostlikely for the bath tub diver. ;)

[Albion]

I must be missing something - Why does "Mouthpiece on second stage suddenly coming off regulator" or "Air cut off due to tank valve not turned on all the way" cause an OOA situation?

The first one is quite wierd, I saw it happen to someone on a saefty stop, and he just bolted for the surface, at the time i thought it was pretty stupid. Then I had it happen to me whilst on the surface as I was swimming back to the boat. I still had the mouthpiece in my mouth and so I just sucked in a load of water without realising. Its actually more disconcerting than not being able to draw in any air through the second stage.

Not advocating that a spare air will be a good solution to the problem here



Im not advocating

[Tom Winters]

So when they have the trimix Spare Air, and you're transfilling it after loading up on bean burritos at Taco Bell, are they going to have a quadmix sticker option?

[Snowbear]

So when they have the trimix Spare Air, and you're transfilling it after loading up on bean burritos at Taco Bell, are they going to have a quadmix sticker option?
:rofl: Thanks for the chuckle, Tom :D

[miketsp]

The first one is quite wierd, I saw it happen to someone on a saefty stop, and he just bolted for the surface, at the time i thought it was pretty stupid. Then I had it happen to me whilst on the surface as I was swimming back to the boat. I still had the mouthpiece in my mouth and so I just sucked in a load of water without realising. Its actually more disconcerting than not being able to draw in any air through the second stage.

Not advocating that a spare air will be a good solution to the problem here



Im not advocating

Maybe it's my snorkelling reactions, 35 years of them, but if I draw in water through the mouthpiece I immediately stop inhaling and pause. It would then be no great deal to recover the 2nd stage and breathe right off the plastic tube, or just grab the alternate. The mouthpiece is just there for comfort.
I've lost count of the number of times I've started a dive with my snorkel in my mouth and when I get to about 2m and start to take my first breath I just get a mouthful of water. I simply change to my reg with no stress whatsoever.

[Lil' Irish Temper]

After long thought, I have decided to sling my SpareAir like a Deco bottle. The only trouble is I'm having trouble finding webbing for it. Does anyone know if SpareAir makes a sling kit?

I've also decided to go with the Argon SpareAir, since the gas is so dense, it warms your lungs up very quickly, no more worrying about those pesky chilly dives.

Whadda ya mean it doesn't come in DIN ? :D

[O2BBubbleFree]

Some of the above posts have been really entertaining.

Now don't get all excited, I'm not advocating use of the Spare Air, but wouldn't it make sense that the Nitrox sticker stems from the fact that the primary method of the filling the Spare Air is transfilling from your main tank?

I mean, if you're diving Nitrox, and transfilling your Spare Air, shouldn't it be labeled as to it's contents?

[Academic Exercise]
I'm not Nitrox trained, but I don't think I would worry to much about labeling it, since it seems to me Nitrox or air wouldn't make a whole lot of difference in the 15-20 breaths you get off of the thing on an emergency ascent.

Shoot, since it has a practical depth limit of about 40', and only used in an emergency ascent, let's fill the darned thing with O2 and get max offgassing during that 20 breaths to the surface! (I know, no pure O2 below 20', but I've read that Navy divers are trained to go to 45' on O2 for short duration when absolutly necessary).[/Academic Exercise]

[cancun mark]

Hmmm... I'm a Naval Aviator, active duty from '69-'91; never saw a spare air there.
Rick

I guess I stand corrected, I must have been a victim of an urban diving legend. I promise to visit snopes first next time.

OTOH, I do know that Mitch from Baywatch uses one on a regular basis to swim to 120' for 20 minutes while fighting giant electric moray eels, and to burrow through the sand under a beach pylon to defuse a bomb.....

so they must be good..


Maybe it's my snorkelling reactions, 35 years of them, but if I draw in water through the mouthpiece I immediately stop inhaling and pause. .

I switch to my backup snorkle...

.

[jonnythan]

Some of the above posts have been really entertaining.

Now don't get all excited, I'm not advocating use of the Spare Air, but wouldn't it make sense that the Nitrox sticker stems from the fact that the primary method of the filling the Spare Air is transfilling from your main tank?

I mean, if you're diving Nitrox, and transfilling your Spare Air, shouldn't it be labeled as to it's contents?
It's not like the green sticker and higher price tag label the contents.

When transfilling off a main tank that has less than 40% O2, there are no issues of nitrox vs not nitrox.

If you want to label the contents of your Spare Air, slap some masking tape on and write the contents on the bottle just like you would with any other nitrox cylinder. You'd have to label it anyway, even if there's a green Nitrox sticker on it.

The dumb part about the whole thing is that they charge more for it.

[lamont]

i want a spare air filled with 50/50 O2/N2O...

for those dives when you just aren't narc'd enough...

[O2BBubbleFree]

It's not like the green sticker and higher price tag label the contents.
//snip//
The dumb part about the whole thing is that they charge more for it.

Good points. I guess this special version must be for those 'special' divers who want to partial-pressure blend into a 3 cu. ft. tank... ;)

[wedivebc]

i want a spare air filled with 50/50 O2/N2O...

for those dives when you just aren't narc'd enough...
Hmmm, I would think 50% would keep me well above any depth narcosis is a problem :06:

[BIGSAGE136]

Here I have worked my fingers to the bone trying to make myself comfortable in my old years, and someone is getting rich selling negligence in a can.

Sheesh. :flush:

[MSilvia]

I'd think that if you really needed "one more breath" during a CSA from 140', there'd probably be one by the time you got to <60' or so... even without the spare air. I'd think that either you're shallow enough to make a CSA without a spare air, or deep enough that the expanding air in your tank as you accend would give you an additional breath.

In any case, if you want one of those things, I've got a nitrox-compatable bridge to sell you.

[sprange]

Hmmm, I would think 50% would keep me well above any depth narcosis is a problem :06:

Certainly, but the 50% nitrous oxide might affect your concentration -slightly-. I suppose that if you were going to die anyway this would be the way to do it!

Sean

[SeanQ]

i want a spare air filled with 50/50 O2/N2O...

for those dives when you just aren't narc'd enough...

As an added bonus you can use it in your car for those times when you need "just a little more power".

[wedivebc]

Certainly, but the 50% nitrous oxide might affect your concentration -slightly-. I suppose that if you were going to die anyway this would be the way to do it!

Sean
Don't know I have never dove with nitrous oxide before (laughing gas) Might be fun though.

[NWGratefulDiver]

for those dives when you just aren't narc'd enough...

Have you had one of those yet? :eyebrow:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[NWGratefulDiver]

and someone is getting rich selling negligence in a can.


Apt description ... given some excerpts from the "testimonials" page on the Spare Air web site ...



"Out of air at 140', with no back-up air system, and his buddy was too far away."

"I was given a newly serviced tank. Someone had used the wrong size o-ring for the valve. The result was that after a few minutes, and at 95', the O-ring blew, emptying my tank in seconds. The young lady that I was asked by the local school to supervise did not have an Octopus and was on her third dive!"

“I had just begun to head for the surface and my dive computer was signaling for me to slow my descent. Right then I felt myself take my last breathe of air from the tank. It was empty, I was at 75 feet, and my dive buddy was nowhere to be seen."

“I went out on the boat without checking the rental tank. I didn’t have a full tank of air and ended up at 60 ft. without air. I gave my dive buddy the out of air sign, he didn’t know what it was and he didn’t have an octopus either." (this one was from a DM)

“I have to share my experience with you. I am a newly certified diver. I went to Cozumel with friends; on my 8th dive I had a tank failure at about 28 ft. No air and my dive buddy was not paying attention to me. So I ditched weights, pulled out Spare Air and made an easy ascent to the surface.”

"I ran out of air at 75 ft. It was the second dive of the day, during the surface interval I swapped out tanks. My greatest mistake was that I never looked at the gauge. To my surprise, the second tank was never filled completely; it only had about 1000 psi."

"My dive buddy showed me his gauge, it read '0'!! I attempted to get my octopus to him but because of the strong current it was extremely difficult."

"When my son, an athletic 16 year old, came out of the ship, his pressure gauge showed 300 lbs and we began to ascend. He quickly in the excitement ran out of air"

"We were at approximately 120 feet when my one friend signaled he was low on air. I noticed my other diving buddy signaling he was having problems with his air supply. We noticed he had a partial opening of his DIN valve. I now was faced with two problems; the first was a diver with less than 300 psi in his cylinder, and another diver with an intermittent supply of air." (this diver is an instructor!)


All of these situations are a result of not following the training protocols you're supposed to learn as part of your Basic Open Water training.

I guess it's slightly better than not having a redundant air source ... but these quotes from the Spare Air web site are all examples of situations that could have been easily avoided with the application of a little common sense.

Seems like they're just promoting stupid insurance ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[spyder]

Flame pants on... I actually own one of the originals (early 80's). I don't carry it diving but use it for working on the pool drain. Just enough air to get the job done without getting all my gear out.

[Lil' Irish Temper]

Flame pants on... I actually own one of the originals (early 80's). I don't carry it diving but use it for working on the pool drain. Just enough air to get the job done without getting all my gear out.

That had to be one small pool. :D

[liberato]

Don't know I have never dove with nitrous oxide before... Where have you been? Didn't you know it is used all the time in diver training to prepare divers for deep dives? :11ztongue Nitrous In Diving (http://www.resort.com/~banshee/Info/N2O/nitrous.diving.html) :11ztongue

[lamont]

Have you had one of those yet? :eyebrow:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm narc'd enough at 1 ATA...

[lamont]

on my 8th dive I had a tank failure at about 28 ft.


did it explode? someone shoot it with a rifle?

yeah, blame the tank for running out of gas...

[miketsp]

did it explode? someone shoot it with a rifle?

yeah, blame the tank for running out of gas...

Some people are just not taking this thread seriously.... :shakehead

[liberato]

Seriously, though, I had no idea they were so expensive ($320). I could get a nice new PST E series chrome-moly tank for that.

Edit: Nevermind I was looking at the official retail price that someone had posted not actual street price... But still, you can get a nice pony bottle for that.

[wedivebc]

Apt description ... given some excerpts from the "testimonials" page on the Spare Air web site ...



All of these situations are a result of not following the training protocols you're supposed to learn as part of your Basic Open Water training.

I guess it's slightly better than not having a redundant air source ... but these quotes from the Spare Air web site are all examples of situations that could have been easily avoided with the application of a little common sense.

Seems like they're just promoting stupid insurance ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This just proves if it wasn't for spare air the gene pool would produce smarter people.

[wedivebc]

Where have you been? Didn't you know it is used all the time in diver training to prepare divers for deep dives? :11ztongue Nitrous In Diving (http://www.resort.com/~banshee/Info/N2O/nitrous.diving.html) :11ztongue
OMG, Using that logic we could have the Inebriate Driving Academy. By the time you graduate you will be able to drive a school bus safely after a 6 pack ;)

[Snowbear]

Some people are just not taking this thread seriously.... :shakehead
Oooops!! This thread is serious :06: :06:

Guess I missed on that one.... Thanks for all the chuckles, guys :D

[kidspot]

OTOH, I do know that Mitch from Baywatch uses one on a regular basis to swim to 120' for 20 minutes while fighting giant electric moray eels, ...

So I guess he's got a great SAC... assuming he used all the air up (meaning he'd need another spair air to surface with...) that gives him a SAC of .033 ... Hey Uncle Pug isn't that about your consumption rate? Maybe that SpairAir doubles rig isn't such a bad idea after all ;)

now let's see... Rock Bottom with 3cf at 120fsw...

[Kriterian]

After watching a safety show on how to escape a submerged car, I think that would be a good use for a spare air. Of course imagine the hilarity that would ensue if in your panic to cut yourself out of the seatbelt you grabbed the fire extinguisher by mistake.

There I was at 90 feet in my 1970 Pinto, and my seatbelt was stuck. I reached under the seat for my handy spareair and sucked a few puffs. It tasted like sulfur and pain mixed together! -- John the DIP (Doing it PADI) instructor

[PhotoTJ]

Well... it makes just as much sense as the original SpareAir.
Yeah, and every soccer mom driving a giant SUV instead of a fuel effecient station wagon or mini van makes sense, too.

DIR VS PADI
LDS VS LeisurePro
Snorkel or not
Spare Air

These horses should be so dead by now, we should see them in a mummy case. And yet we keep beating them. No one has changed anyones mind.

(Yes, I still have my Spare Air doubles that I bought on E-Bay, did 20 minutes at 10 ft just to play with the thing.)

[Web Monkey]

(Yes, I still have my Spare Air doubles that I bought on E-Bay, did 20 minutes at 10 ft just to play with the thing.)

They make Spare Air doubles?

Does it come with an isolation manifold? 8-)

Terry

[Doc Intrepid]

TJ,

Whatever happened with the ripoff you suffered? Ever catch the numbnuts? Ever get any of your stuff back? Insurance pay off? (Tell me you didn't score the spareaire off ebay with your insurance payoff...)

I'd be more concerned about hijacking the thread if the thread were going anywhere meaningful, which it obviously isn't.

Hope you got some satisfactory closure on that.



And now, back to your regularly scheduled spareaire waste of bandwidth...

[markfm]

The little one reminds me of a large can of cheez-wiz.
Narced, hungry at 100' fsw? Break out your Sea-Wiz (optional underwater taco dispenser extra) :)

[detroit diver]

....... No one has changed anyones mind.

........

I'm not sure you can categorically state that. While some of these threads are less than informative, others provide food for thought for those interested in the issue. I know of specific cases where the arguements made have not only changed minds, but have changed diving practices also.

[markfm]

Practically speaking, it just seems too small, at too high a price point, to be worthwhile. By definition it's being used when something has gone basically wrong. How fast would a new diver (who else is really likely to have the majority of the OOA causes listed on the page), a relatively misfortune prone one at that (or REALLY rusty) suck that baby down?

[miketsp]

..snip..
These horses should be so dead by now, we should see them in a mummy case. And yet we keep beating them. No one has changed anyones mind.
..snip..


It's always difficult to know how many people are being influenced by a thread. This one already has well over one thousand views. The participants are a minority.
Many viewers accompany new threads but can't be bothered to use the search function or were not even aware that such an aberration even existed so they would never search for it.

[NauticalbutNice]

Am I the only person who thinks their list of 21 ways you could run out of air could be shortened a bit?

At least 5 of them could fall under the heading of "blown, cracked, generally gubbed o-rings".

Ah sales pitch...don't ya love it?!?!

But you can tell that they understand their product - as their FAQ states:

SPARE AIR is the smallest redundant SCUBA system available yet.

Quite.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

[SeanQ]

They make Spare Air doubles?

Does it come with an isolation manifold? 8-)

Terry

I would hope so. If they're not thinking about gas management why would they even want to consider thinking about switching between a set of independent doubles? :D

[kidspot]

It's always difficult to know how many people are being influenced by a thread. This one already has well over one thousand views. The participants are a minority.
Many viewers accompany new threads but can't be bothered to use the search function or were not even aware that such an aberration even existed so they would never search for it.

When I first started researching for SCUBA I considered a pony or spare air at some point in my future diving hobby... then I came across a few threads like this one, read them, agreed with the logic that planning ahead and careful management negated 99% of the need for spare air type rigs and the additional task loading they incurred (along with the additional maintenance, which if not done on your regular gear would not happen on your spare air and cause just as many problems as with your redundant gear too) So I changed my mind rather quickly, now I work at building up habits that will prevent the need for a redundant air supply being needed... I check my air at the shop when I pick up the tank, when I put my reg on it, just before entering the water and at the bottom after my initial descent. I check it again every 5 min. thereafter. I make sure I can reach my valve just in case it was shut off. I make sure I am either at a depth where a CSA is easy or my buddy is within 1 breath of me (definitely preferred) . I clean my gear and dissasemble and clean the second stage frequently to clear it of sand that has worked it's way inside. I learned to calculate Rock Bottom times and don't push the limits of my air supply. When I start doing dives that do push those limits it's time to switch to a doubles rig for me...

Just the opinion of one diver whose view was changed because of a similar thread...


Aloha, Tim

[aquaoren]

You guys have no imagination how to improve business.
I have the idea of a life time. :eyebrow:
Since air and nitrox taste like .....nothing, how about a cherry flavoured spare air?. This way the one more breath will taste like something and if it's the last, than at least your last breath will be sweeeeeet.
If it finds acceptancy, you could expand into other flavours too. :D

[mxracer19]

Oceanic Alpha 7 SP4 - $99.00
Aqua Pony Tank -19cf. - $106.95

Total - $205.95

Cheapest complete tank/first/second stage pony setup minus sling from www.leisurepro.com...and its still less than the nitrox spare air.

Thats rediculous.


-Matt

[O2BBubbleFree]

You guys have no imagination how to improve business.
I have the idea of a life time. :eyebrow:
Since air and nitrox taste like .....nothing, how about a cherry flavoured spare air?. This way the one more breath will taste like something and if it's the last, than at least your last breath will be sweeeeeet.
If it finds acceptancy, you could expand into other flavours too. :D

How 'bout throwing in some breath freshner, so that the boat crew won't object so much when it comes time to give you CPR?

[Uncle Pug]

Number one reason not to carry a SpareAir:
You immediately identify yourself as someone who is planning to have one or more of the 21 reasons for being OOA (http://www.spareair.com/why/whyme.htm).

[-hh]

Hmmm... I'm a Naval Aviator, active duty from '69-'91; never saw a spare air there.
Rick

It wasn't for fixed wing, but for Helicopters. It was known as the "HEED" (Helicopter Emergency Escape Device).

Spare Air did have the USN contract for awhile, but lost it to...IIRC...US Divers, who had a 2.5ft^3 bottle with a regulator on a short whip...the Micra?

Apparently, one of the Navy's revised selection criterion had to do with the SA bottle/regulator's design, which had an unpleasant tendency that it would provide the leverage to knock teeth out of the mouth of the crew if they tried to deploy the HEED as the chopper was going down (eg, before water impact).


-hh

[SueMermaid]

My dive club bought a spare air back in the early 90s. Why? I dunno. The club then dissolved. I inherited it as the last member of the club. I asked them if they wanted it, nobody did. So I listed it on Ebay a month ago. It was out of hydro, mind you, and I still got $120 for it.

I think therein lies the value. Resale.

[-hh]

Depends how long it takes you to react. Have you ever had a 1st stage o-ring blowout?

I've yet to have that pleasant experience. However, I have read the analysis of a Spare Air "Testimonial" by Undercurrent magazine. Fortunately, they've left it online:

http://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/articles/SpareAir9902.shtml


This evaluation started because SA testimonial #67 claimed an extremely rapid tank vent as the result of a swivel on an HP hose. Unfortunately, it neglects the fact that all regulators sold since at least 1982 have had a restriction orifice that generally prevents you from losing more than 50psi/minute.

Nevertheless, they do try to reproduce the testimonial's "<30 sec" claim, resulting in the following test, which is probably an even worse case than a 1st stage O-ring blowout:

"Okay, then how about just flat-out opening up a tank valve on an aluminum 80 with nothing whatsoever attached to it? Nope, it still takes almost two minutes to go from 3000 psi to zero."




-hh

[PhotoTJ]

Wonder if you could do it if you somehow managed to blow the valve - tank o-ring?

[-hh]

Wonder if you could do it if you somehow managed to blow the valve - tank o-ring?

It might not make any significant difference.

In plain english, the maximum flow rate of a gas through a restriction is a function of how much pressure and how narrow the restriction is. But what makes this "tricky" is that the proverbial "speed limit" through any restriction is Mach 1, which times the area of the restriction equates to a mass flow rate. Therefore, for a given restriction size, there's a hard limit that cannot be exceeded no matter how much higher the gas pressure is.

For the hardcore techies, I'm referring to when a nozzle's throat hits its choke value.

What this means is...

if:

(the tightest part of a blown tank o-ring's "escape path")

is equal to or less than

(the tightest part of an open-valve's "escape path"),

...then the flow rate can only be equal to or less.


If this is true or not is a pretty good question. However, my hunch is that since O-rings generally need to be well supported, I don't think that its that likely that the tank o-ring will be able to crease a larger path than the one that was designed to be present within a tank valve. But I do admit that this is just a guess.


-hh

[jonnythan]

You could do it if your first stage blows apart underwater.

[miketsp]

I've yet to have that pleasant experience. However, I have read the analysis of a Spare Air "Testimonial" by Undercurrent magazine. Fortunately, they've left it online:

http://www.undercurrent.org/UCnow/articles/SpareAir9902.shtml

This evaluation started because SA testimonial #67 claimed an extremely rapid tank vent as the result of a swivel on an HP hose. Unfortunately, it neglects the fact that all regulators sold since at least 1982 have had a restriction orifice that generally prevents you from losing more than 50psi/minute.

Nevertheless, they do try to reproduce the testimonial's "<30 sec" claim, resulting in the following test, which is probably an even worse case than a 1st stage O-ring blowout:

"Okay, then how about just flat-out opening up a tank valve on an aluminum 80 with nothing whatsoever attached to it? Nope, it still takes almost two minutes to go from 3000 psi to zero."

-hh

The consensus of nearly 2 mins to empty an AL80 from full has been well discussed in the past:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=46984&page=1&pp=10

When it happened to me I wasn't starting with a full tank and the air didn't have to pass through any small orifices in the regulator. The post o-ring practically disappeared. It probably took me a good 10-15 seconds to react to the noise and my SPG dropped very fast. As you say there may have been a pressure gradient across
the post with a lot more air in the tank than the SPG was indicating.
But I can assure you that if you're at depth with that noise behind your head and an SPG near zero you do not feel like estimating how much longer it will bubble.

[Chris Hipp]

Please forgive my laziness if this has already been said:

Could it be that the nitrox spare air is just a marketing gimmick trying to get all those dumb dumbs that think you use less air when using nitrox? Ya know, the guys that say "Man I need to get nitrox cuz I burn up a tank in fifteen minutes."

[kidspot]

lol - so they'd then burn up a S.A. in 30 seconds instead of 2 min. as well... lol - but I'd wager you are right on with the guess about marketing... one more "gimmick" to sell another product. And that's fine, I just won't be buying one from them...

Tim