TDI - Extended Range Course

[Dougz]

:boom:

I am thinking of doing the TDI Extended range course (http://www.tdisdi.com/tdi/sandp/doc/Diver%20Standards/Extended%20Range%20Diver%20Course.pdf)

Has anyone else done this course??

Any comments/thoughts??

Thanx

[Green_Manelishi]

deep air.

aside from the incredible narcosis effect (and that can be mitigated to lesser/greater degrees with the use of helium)
you are pretty much at the *safe* limit for an air dive when
you are at 180 fws (based on PO2)

[TexasMike]

Only just did the TDI AdvEAN/Deco....

But I can put you in touch with two really good instructors (one is the regional TDI rep as well) if you have questions about the course.

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by Green_Manelishi
deep air.

aside from the incredible narcosis effect (and that can be mitigated to lesser/greater degrees with the use of helium)
you are pretty much at the *safe* limit for an air dive when
you are at 180 fws (based on PO2)

Nothing says you Have to go to 180.. The class in not necessarily about going to deeper depths but is a useful continuation of deco training.. You learn more contigency planning and diving physiology. A person can do all the dives in the 130+ range and still meet standards.

In SOME areas where HE is not available and wounldn't be the next class to take using this class to deeper depths is an option(I'd still like to keep it to depths were narcosis is manageable).
Some training and experience is better than having the person just decide to do it on his own. Many of those against deep air don't realize how easy we have it getting He compared to many dive destinations around the world. If people who advocate deep air is the devil, always use helium... why not use neon.. its in the same class for us in the states as He is for many around the world.. Its very difficult to get and Very expensive.. but potentially a better gas for short deep dives.
Going deeper on air has to be an individual risk assessment. I don't profess it to being safe, under normal situations I limit myself to 150ish on AIr.. I'll do He deeper than this, but there are times I will go deepr and assume the risk involved. The conditins must be optimal and the proper support available. I recently dove TRUK and anyone who has been there knows what its like to try and get He there.. I understood the risks involved and did the dives I wanted to do... I had to worry more about narcosis than otox since I was on a ccr and beyond 170 my PN2 is greather than that of an OC diver..
If I chose to limit to 150, the enjoyable dives on the SanFranciso Maru, Shotan Maru, and Aioku(sp) Maru would have been out of the question, with the Shotan being the shallowest at just under 180. Granted I would never do these depths in cold, limited viz water, but in 84 degree water with better than 100feet viz, its not that difficult of a dive..

[caverkevin]

do the TDI Intermediate Trimix course instead. You'll be leaps and bounds head. I am a TDI instructor and I will not teach air to 180 feet. The first level mix class is rated to 200 feet.

KLJ

[HDrider]

Many good points here with Green_Manelishi’s true statements [B]you are pretty much at the *safe* limit for an air dive when you are at 180 fws (based on PO2)[B] 180 feet being the max depth of the Extended range certification, and 218 being MOD of air.

Caverkevin has a very valid point that I totally agree with. Trimix is much safer at 180’ than air, and Entry Trimix certifies you to 200’.

Padiscubapro brings out a point that is very interesting, which makes you have to ask yourself what kind of diving do you plan to do. If you plan on diving deep wrecks in the Great Lakes you will want to use Trimix. However if your planning on diving some exotic place in the far reaches of the Pacific He may be unavailable and you will be unable to dive anything but air with Nitrox to deco on. It could be possible that you would even have to deco on air!

Perhaps the best way would be to take both courses. This way you if you want to go to 175’ on air you will have [B]your[B] choice of instructor with you for a confidence boast on your first narced dive. Then if you want to dive Bikini Atoll you will know if you will remember it or not. If you want to do a dive to 175’ and remember it you can do it on Trimix if it is available.

I am sure you would enjoy both courses and learn a few new things with each.

Dive till it hurt hang till it quits!

Tom

[Sue]

Hi Dougz

After finishing the Adv Nitrox/Deco Procedures course, I wanted to jump to Basic Trimix - I was advised to do the ER first. The given argument which I totally subscribe now was that with AN/DP you dive with a single tank + 3lt deco tank and for Trimix will need to carry 4 tanks - so it's a big jump in terms of configuration.

In the ER course you'll get familiar diving doubles (we dive independent doubles in here), switching regs and carry a bigger deco tank - 7 lt. And perform all tasks with this particular configuration.

I've found it very useful and now I don't regret having done it. I feel now much more confident to step to Trimix.

Sue

[Dougz]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the feedback - will reassess the options!!!!

Dougz:boom:

[Lost Yooper]

Skip it and get trimix. You can't be taught to deal with narcosis. You don't need deep air training to use trimix. Be wary of any instructor who tells you can learn, adapt, or deal with narcosis reliably and who is willing to take you to such depths just to prove a needless point. Try to go the GUE route, if you can, to save yourself money and time.

Good luck,

Mike

[WYDT]

Places where He is not available??

You're really going to risk your life for a dive just because He isn't available??

Why not wait until it IS available or address your concerns with the dive operators on the island? I'm sure if people quit coming they would GET He in a hurry! Besides you're not going to remember much of that dive past 150ft to that ___ maru anyway are you?? What's the point to spend several thousands of dollars to get there then not remember the dives??:confused:

Heck, it sounds like an opportunity at Truk to me!

DSAO!!

[100days-a-year]

Interestinh how Deep Air polarizes out the crowd quickly.I am a moderate in these discussions,but to adress to points 1.Padiscubapro ....Narcosis is not manageable or predictable from dive to dive,day to day or diver to diver.It is however one of many risks we may decide to accept based on our desire to dive where He is difficult to obtain.I've seen people cooked at 100' that dove with me to 150' the day before.I accept that ,but limit my exposure to it as much as is convenient,expedient and possible,but I don't lie to myself and others that I'm immune.2.WYDT at 150' in tropical waters theres little chance of missing much or really getting into trouble .That's the other side of this.Most of the guys who led the way on He dove Air until He was available AND they could afford to use it.An END of <100'in tropical waters is a joke.He is our friend and I use it.I just don't see vehement chest-beating,finger-pointing as a very good way of discussing our actual experiences with air and He.When I hear LY or UP talk about early days they mention air and how much they appreciate the clear head mix gives you.They seem to remember what they saw there tho.I'd really like one day to get a head count to see who all has been deep on air >130' a lot and diving mix now on the same spots .

[caverkevin]

This subject does polarize the tech crowd. It always seem to be down the lines of narcosis. Well narcosis is BS!!!! Even the deep air divers know it is bad, or they would not train to deal with.

The thing is, bad voodoo starts happening inside the human body around 2.5 to 3 ATA of nitrogen. Stuff that you can not decompress and looks like DCI. Feeling more energetic after a dive is another benefit to trimix diving. No more having to sleep in the back of the van after it is all over. What about remembering the dive you were just on. How about limiting you exposure to making mistakes.

Divers love nitrox. Oxygen displaces the some of the nitrogen and divers are diving longer and feeling better. Well if you are going to dive deep and you dive nitrox, why screw yourself hard by putting all the nitrogen back in. Keep on displacing that nitrogen out of the cylinder with helium. Then enjoy diving for diving. Instead of performing deep air voodoo experiments on yourself.


KLJ

[HDrider]

Originally posted by WYDT
Places where He is not available??

You're really going to risk your life for a dive just because He isn't available??

You risk your life on every dive no matter how deep it is. Every decompression table or no decompression table is based on theory not fact.

Why not wait until it IS available or address your concerns with the dive operators on the island? I'm sure if people quit coming they would GET He in a hurry!

If you look at the Bikini Atoll (http://www.bikiniatoll.com/) website closely you will find that it states He is no longer available. If my memory serves me correctly the reason they quit supplying divers with He is because the cost got so prohibitive that there customers willingly refused it and opted for air/Nitrox.

Besides you're not going to remember much of that dive past 150ft to that ___ maru anyway are you?? What's the point to spend several thousands of dollars to get there then not remember the dives??:confused:

I was very disappointed to find out that He is no longer available at Bikini Atoll. I do agree that it would be a more memorable safer dive using Trimix. But now I have to make a choice again. Do I give up on my dream trip to Bikini Atoll? Do I go to Bikini Atoll and dive only to 130 feet and not see the remainder of the ship or other dives? Do I dive deep air like thousands of others have safely done and see the wrecks that I want to see.


Heck, it sounds like an opportunity at Truk to me!


DSAO!!

Wishing there were better solutions to the problems!

Tom