Untitled Document



 

Register today and make this ad disappear!

Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 100,000 divers from around the world discussing all things related to Scuba Diving. To gain full access to ScubaBoard you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 3,000,000 posts.
  • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
  • Post your own photos or view from 80,000 user submitted images.
  • Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
  • Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.

Go Back   ScubaBoard > Scuba Diving Central > Technical Diving Specialties > Wreck Diving > Artificial Reefs
Forums Register Today's Posts Calendar

Artificial Reefs Find all about the Vandenberg and other artificial reef projects right here, from fund raising to ship sinking!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old July 14th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #11
Regular of the Pub
 
Twistedarts's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sleepy Hollow, NY
Logged Dives: 25 - 49
Stats
Posts: 589
Thanks Received: 6
Natural selection anyone?
__________________
Luck favours the prepared.
Twistedarts is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #12
ScubaBoard Guru
 
Walter's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lehigh Acres, Florida
Logged Dives: 2,000 - 2,999
Stats
Posts: 14,362
Photos: 3
Thanks Received: 335
Sounds good to me.
__________________
“'It’s the Instructor not the Agency' is a saying promulgated by the inadequate
to cover their shortcomings." - Thalassamania
"Walter....neither you nor I are very likeable anyway.." - Ana
Walter is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #13
Regular of the Pub
 
JeffG's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Logged Dives: 200 - 499
Stats
Photos: 35
Thanks Received: 105
Trader Rating: 2
Unfortunately the Canadian Government usually falls to the side of "Protecting its citizens against themselves."

But having a group impose rules on themselves before the government does is rather shortsighted and counter productive.
__________________
JeffG is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 04:45 PM   #14
DIR Practitioner
 
rjack321's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle
Logged Dives: 500 - 999
If you start welding one opening shut you might as well weld them all shut. What happens when rust (imagine that!) creates a new opening though...

I agree that ARSBC should remove contaminants like oil, beyond that, leave it alone. Some of the other reefs can actually be a bit challenging to run line in because the walls and floor are so bare (and honestly boring).
rjack321 is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #15
Megalodon
 
wedivebc's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver Island
Logged Dives: 1,000 - 1,999
Stats
Posts: 3,401
Photos: 43
Thanks Received: 125
Trader Rating: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffG View Post
Very similar to what your argued for 3 yrs ago.

Graduated license???

How come the government hasn't taken over the BC dive industry then?
Yes and you totally missed my point then as well. If we don't do anything to stop government intervention we will have a situation like they do in Europe or even Quebec where they require a province issues cert if you want to dive there.
I am NOT in favour of restricting access to wrecks. I am in favour of exploring avenues that will prevent government from resticting them for us.
__________________
Cheers,
Dave...

www.rebreatherworld.com
"The stone-age just called, they want their doubles back." wreckseeker (2007)
wedivebc is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 05:02 PM   #16
DIR Practitioner
 
rjack321's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle
Logged Dives: 500 - 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
I am NOT in favour of restricting access to wrecks. I am in favour of exploring avenues that will prevent government from resticting them for us.
Run for office and get elected, then change the framing of the debate. Or get on the ARSBC board and push back for personal responsibility not sanitization.

Government, even in Canada , is YOU.
rjack321 is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #17
Regular of the Pub
 
JeffG's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Logged Dives: 200 - 499
Stats
Photos: 35
Thanks Received: 105
Trader Rating: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
Yes and you totally missed my point then as well.
No I didn't, but that's another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wedivebc View Post
If we don't do anything to stop government intervention we will have a situation like they do in Europe or even Quebec where they require a province issues cert if you want to dive there.
I am NOT in favour of restricting access to wrecks. I am in favour of exploring avenues that will prevent government from resticting them for us.
Then quit looking at making more rules.

Get the ARSBC to show a leadership role and act on their Mission statement (or some other group, with a drive to save diving in BC)

Promote the use of artificial reefs to spearhead a backlash of divers against the government.

Instead of them acting against the best interests of divers.

Let them become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

Do you need assistance in this matter? You can find support in other organizations, such as the Alberta Underwater Council.
__________________
JeffG is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2008, 09:23 PM   #18
Megalodon
 
wedivebc's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver Island
Logged Dives: 1,000 - 1,999
Stats
Posts: 3,401
Photos: 43
Thanks Received: 125
Trader Rating: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjack321 View Post
Run for office and get elected, then change the framing of the debate. Or get on the ARSBC board and push back for personal responsibility not sanitization.

Government, even in Canada , is YOU.
That would assume the issue is important enough to me to make a career out of it. That also assumes that ARSBC has the time and money to fight something that they don't seem to be that concerned about.
I am not naive enough to believe that if we let Darwin sort it out the government won't intervene because they do.
__________________
Cheers,
Dave...

www.rebreatherworld.com
"The stone-age just called, they want their doubles back." wreckseeker (2007)
wedivebc is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2008, 01:51 PM   #19
Regular Member
 
Sinbad the Diver's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northern Virginia, US
Logged Dives: 0 - 24
Stats
Posts: 166
Thanks Received: 4
Unfortunately any regulation breeds more regulation because once you regulate you create two things:

1. an assumption that it is "safe" because it is regulated
2. a society that is incapable of being responsible for itself

In this specific discussion you mentioned closing off dangerous areas. Who is it dangerous to? For me as an inexperienced diver with no penetration training at all entry into any part of the wreck is "dangerous". For someone with lots of training and experience obviously further penetration is "less dangerous".

One of my pet peves is regulation that can't be reasonably enforced. Welding the "unsafe" areas shut is possible, though the only real "safe" solution is to weld all entry points and prevent any penetration. How would you enforce a permit type approach? If I charter will the dive op have to ensure that I don't go beyond my allowable penetration? What if I take my own boat out there. Kinda falls back on the idea that I can do any dive I chose to, including solo, tech etc without any training. It is unwise and most likely I wouldn't be doing it for long.

Kinda rambling but my point is any regulation is futile and would only serve to provide politicians a soapbox to claim they are protecting us from ourselves. To be honest, I've always been surprised that govts are willing to sink these things in the first place. The ghost of Johny Cocharine is out there just waiting for someone to die on a wreck and sue the govt for being neglegent in providing the attractive nusance that led the person to die.
Sinbad the Diver is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 11:21 AM   #20
Regular of the Pub
 
b1gcountry's Avatar

Status
Profile Info
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middle
Logged Dives: 200 - 499
Stats
Posts: 847
Photos: 21
Thanks Received: 47
Trader Rating: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjack321 View Post
Government, even in Canada , is YOU.
I would disagree with that.

I have no right to demand a percentage of my neighbors money for any means. I have no right to forcibly imprison them if they do not give it to me. People do not claim these rights, Governments do. Where they think they get them from is beyond me, but if government was simply a collection of individuals, it would have no greater rights than any of those individuals that comprise it.

Tom
__________________
b1gcountry is offline
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post! Add to your Facebook!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump