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Driving a car with good training and no license.
Flying comercial aircrafts with good training and no license.
Diving with good training and no license.
It all works (yes the aircraft thing happened, a Swedish guy flew for 20 years for several companies and started out with a homemade license after training in a simulator he could get access to during the nights... I know it happened in some more cases) but who can actually know what you DO know if you cannot show a piece of plastic (which ofc can be falsly made) as a proof of training / experience?
One is a danger to oneself but also to the other divers around, there is so much to learn and a OW course can teach the most important of this, it should be in any persons interest to get the plastic card and to only dive with others having it (Now in 2011, I aggree that it was different in 1970s... but that was then).
Safe to dive with yourself Jax. If you don't know the person, presume they know nothing. Try your best to be a good buddy, but do not expect the same in return. It's the price you pay in these places. You should see the quality of dive masters in some of these places. You wonder what the word "Master" in Dive Master stands for. Luckily I am only basic open water qualified.
So it sounds like the cert card is about as meaningful as the "Hey. I have an extra set of gear. Why don't you come with me and I'll show you how to dive."
I'm not saying proper training isn't important-just the opposite. Being an 'instructor' with an agency or being a 'mentor' with years of experince is no promise of quality.
It isn't just happening in the far corners of the globe. I use to dive with an 'instructor' whom I know certified 3 people that weren't qualified to dive (ie flunked his agencies own standards).
Courses have several roles in preparing you for diving.
The first is to provide a standard by which everyone can measure. If you have a card, ever other diver knows you have some level of experience and know the basics. Staying with a buddy. Breathing at all times. Diving conservative limits.
Second, certification gives you the basic knowledge to know what your limits are. Can you tell me how long you can stay down at 100 feet without injuring yourself? That's just one of many skills that you learn, and you learn it without trial and error. Cause who wants to get bent to test their decompression limits?
Third, training teaches you skills for handling unexpected situations. Some of these skills you may do intuitively. Your regulator pops out of your mouth, you put it back in. But others, like breathing during ascents, you may not even realize are important until someone explains them to you.
The fact is, the reason these dive-monopolies exist is because somebody already screwed up their lungs holding their breath while ascending. Somebody already drowned when their regulator was knocked out of their mouth. You don't need to find out the hard way how to finish a dive safely, you can learn from example. In truth, it is a fine line between dive organizations over-policing and maintaining safety, but one thing these companies do is keep government out of regulating the dive industry. But that is a discussion for another thread.
On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated population center on the face of the earth. 2,175 miles to Alaska, 2,390 miles to California; 3,850 miles to Japan; 4,900 miles to China; 5,280 miles to the Philippines.
You need a card to get air at shops and get on some boats, if you have your own gear, compressor and boat, and don't want to dive anywhere else, then it is of little use.
Who's to say if the training you got is any better, or worse, than that which most diving students receive today?
I refuse to believe that corporations are people until Texas executes one.
"Too often ... people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought" - Leapfrog
"They are the McDonalds of diver certification. Quick, inexpensive and tasty. Pardon me for saying so, but I also believe it to be a health hazard." - DCBC
"It truly does boil down to motivation ... if you believe something is hard, or unnecessary to learn, you won't learn it ... even if it's completely within your capability" - Bob (Grateful Diver)
Safe to dive with yourself Jax. If you don't know the person, presume they know nothing. Try your best to be a good buddy, but do not expect the same in return. It's the price you pay in these places. You should see the quality of dive masters in some of these places. You wonder what the word "Master" in Dive Master stands for. Luckily I am only basic open water qualified.
Ha ha ha !! I have advance open water.
(Sat Diver was my mentor as a commercial diver)
There are good points from many people here.
I dived for almost 20 years before getting a PADI card.
I was trained and certified as a commercial diver, but not recreationally.
Finally I decided to get the card to make my life easier. I enrolled and was trained by BobbyP10 on the board here.
I thought he did a great job, and i really did learn a lot from him on the way to getting my card.
Its really up to you though.
Thalassamania - love the profile pic. When was that from ??? the early days buoyancy compensation
On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated population center on the face of the earth. 2,175 miles to Alaska, 2,390 miles to California; 3,850 miles to Japan; 4,900 miles to China; 5,280 miles to the Philippines.
Thalassamania - love the profile pic. When was that from ??? the early days buoyancy compensation
It was summer, 1980 ... but it could have been 1968, or for that matter (except for the amount of hair and beard color) ... yesterday, I still have two FENZYs and an identical wet suit.
I refuse to believe that corporations are people until Texas executes one.
"Too often ... people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought" - Leapfrog
"They are the McDonalds of diver certification. Quick, inexpensive and tasty. Pardon me for saying so, but I also believe it to be a health hazard." - DCBC
"It truly does boil down to motivation ... if you believe something is hard, or unnecessary to learn, you won't learn it ... even if it's completely within your capability" - Bob (Grateful Diver)
On a large pile of smokin' A'a, the most isolated population center on the face of the earth. 2,175 miles to Alaska, 2,390 miles to California; 3,850 miles to Japan; 4,900 miles to China; 5,280 miles to the Philippines.
Driving a car with good training and no license.
Flying comercial aircrafts with good training and no license.
Diving with good training and no license.
It all works (yes the aircraft thing happened, a Swedish guy flew for 20 years for several companies and started out with a homemade license after training in a simulator he could get access to during the nights... I know it happened in some more cases) but who can actually know what you DO know if you cannot show a piece of plastic (which ofc can be falsly made) as a proof of training / experience?
One is a danger to oneself but also to the other divers around, there is so much to learn and a OW course can teach the most important of this, it should be in any persons interest to get the plastic card and to only dive with others having it (Now in 2011, I aggree that it was different in 1970s... but that was then).
Any DSO would know, usually with just a conversation, and never more than just one checkout dive. The biggest differences between the 1970s and today are that having a card or being an instructor actually meant something back then, but this is now.
I refuse to believe that corporations are people until Texas executes one.
"Too often ... people enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought" - Leapfrog
"They are the McDonalds of diver certification. Quick, inexpensive and tasty. Pardon me for saying so, but I also believe it to be a health hazard." - DCBC
"It truly does boil down to motivation ... if you believe something is hard, or unnecessary to learn, you won't learn it ... even if it's completely within your capability" - Bob (Grateful Diver)
The scuba monopoly will prevent you from getting a tank filled or boarding a scuba charter. The same monopoly will sell you all the gear you can afford no questions asked.
Boom, theduckguru, is truly a guru and probably an economist too! We as a community need to take a stand for our rights! All the crap about liability, and safe diving was invented by somebody trying to take your $$. If liability is really the problem, well, that's what we have liability waivers for. As far as safe diving goes, it doesn't kill anyone else if you f up under water. Yes, it is a risk, but it's your life and your risk to choose for!
At this rate we'll all be lobotomized and have our knees broken by PADI in the next century or two.
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Originally Posted by Jax
