buoyancy with BP/W

[Sideband]

I have right around a hundred dives and right now I couldn't be happier with my buoyancy control. Up to now I have been diving with a Genesis Cobra BC but will be getting a BP and wing very soon. As I was diving today I really paid attention to how I knew I was neutral and I realized that a lot of it was the feel of the BC. I know when I am close because I know how the BC feels around me at that point. How tight it is, etc.

How does it work with a BP when you don't have that sensory feedback?

I may be on the road to answering my own question so here's what I have. Part of my satisfaction with my control recently is that I have been neutral at all points of the dive. In the past I would dump all air until I got to the bottom and then inflate until it felt right then fine tune. Today I found that I was neutral at ALL points of the dive. We stopped several times during the decents and ascents and I was able to just hang because I had been correcting the entire time, adding just a touch of air as we decended so that it didn't require a big correction at any time. I can see how that would work with a BP. What I don't see yet is how you find neutral if you are not constantly on top of it like that, say if you did an entry with an immediate decent and an empty wing. With my BC I always know about how much air is in it just from the feel. How does it work with a wing. I know once I start using it I'll figure it out sooner or later but I want sooner.
Did that make sense?
Joe

 

[CIBDiving]

I guess I've been doing this too long, I can't think of a good answer!!
I don't understand how "how tight it is" is feedback of nuetral as that should very with depth. You are on the right track by continualy adjusting the BC, well, at least IF it needs it.

I'm I to understand you do descents by dropping to the bottom without adding Any air to the BC? When you hit bottom, Do you bounce and if so how high? - and what if you're on a 1000ft wall?

You need to stay "constantly on top of it" just like you should with the BC you're diving now! Why do you need to know how much air is in your BC? it doesn't matter.
With any BC ( BP/wing or otherwise), if you keep floating up or you have to swim down let a little air out.
if you sink or have to swim up to stay at the depth you wish - add air.
you should be able to make small changes with breathing not the bc.

There is a reason it's called bouyancy *Control*

 

[eod]

I feel when I am neutral from the pressure changes in my ears. If I go up I exhale and if I go down I inhale. If I need to breathe with my lungs filled to the limit I add some gas to the wing. If I have to exhale all gas from my lungs I dump some from my wing. That's all there is to me. No need to know exactly how full my wing of dry suit is.

 

[Hawk]

Sideband, even though I do not dive a bp/w setup, it will be as described above. Small adjustments to keep on top of it and then breathing controlling the fine tuning. The same goes for any rig.

I do know what you are talking about, as far as the feel. This will differ if I have my weights on a belt, in my bc, or a combo of both. If I have it in my bc alone (warm water, very little weight at all) I can use feel alone at any depth and be right on the money every time. When I dive cold water (quite a bit of weight distributed between belt and bc) it is not the same feeling at all.

All in all, I don't believe the feel is the best way to go.

Later, Hawk.

 

[Sideband]

I'm I to understand you do descents by dropping to the bottom without adding Any air to the BC? When you hit bottom, Do you bounce and if so how high? - and what if you're on a 1000ft wall?

I was very good at dropping fast and adding air at the end, stopping about 5 feet from the bottom or wherever I wanted to stop. It was just one long blast instead of lots of small ones.

Joe

 

[chrispete]

When I switched from a jacket to a BP/W setup it took me a while to get my trim and stability back and did get a bit frustrating. Practice makes perfect though and I love the BP/W setup now, wouldn't go back to a jacket.

 

[pants!]

I was very good at dropping fast and adding air at the end, stopping about 5 feet from the bottom or wherever I wanted to stop. It was just one long blast instead of lots of small ones.

Joe

You might consider adding small amounts frequently as you go down. Not only will this help prevent a runaway descent, but if you have to suddenly pause your descent (ear issues, buddy's valve wasn't on all the way so you need to share air, etc) you can... if you don't add til you're near the bottom stopping your descent suddenly can be very difficult.

 

[Sideband]

I must have confused things. My bouyancy now is DEAD ON. I am neutral at every point in the dive. I am having zero issues presently. My "concern" is with the BP/wing and the loss of the feel of the air in the bladder.
Chrispete,
You are on to what I am after. I guess some idea of what to expect to cut that awkward time down as much as possible.

Joe

 

[Sideband]

Sideband, even though I do not dive a bp/w setup, it will be as described above. Small adjustments to keep on top of it and then breathing controlling the fine tuning. The same goes for any rig.

I do know what you are talking about, as far as the feel. This will differ if I have my weights on a belt, in my bc, or a combo of both. If I have it in my bc alone (warm water, very little weight at all) I can use feel alone at any depth and be right on the money every time. When I dive cold water (quite a bit of weight distributed between belt and bc) it is not the same feeling at all.

All in all, I don't believe the feel is the best way to go.

Later, Hawk.

Yeah, probably not the best way and I don't use that alone. It is an indicator that I have become accustomed to though and will miss it at first after changing rigs.

Joe

 

[Jason B]

My "concern" is with the BP/wing and the loss of the feel of the air in the bladder.

Simple answer...yes. There will be no bladder to squeeze your body as you add air.

Now answer a question for me. The amount of air needed in any BC is going to vary with depth so how in the world do you get any usable feedback from that? The feedback should be what others have suggested to you...rising or falling with regards to the amount of air in your lungs.