Safety or profit?

[bushfilm47]

Hi there,

Okay, I haven't posted much here before, so I know I'm on thin ice, but I've got my nomex suit and stainless steel cup on, so here goes.

First, I was somewhat shocked to discover that computers are required in some places in order to dive. I don't want to be some old fart who maintains "I've been diving for 123 years and I don't need no stinking computer", but I will say that I been diving for a very long time, made lots of dives and never used a computer. And I never had any kind of problem. I know technology is great but wonder at the same time if this isn't just a move to force people to spend more money at the dive shop.

I know safety should be the primary concern of all divers, but I feel I must say that this is a dangerous sport, no matter what. I agree that some dive operations are safer than others but I think a diver's safety is that diver's responsibility, not someone else's.

When I started diving, no one had bc's or octopus regulators, much less computers. We learned to buddy breathe, learned the dive tables, were made aware of the dangers, and we went out to dive. I guess I am of the old school that says "hey, its your life, you may live it like you want." I understand the need for supervision, but I really don't need someone whose been diving for three years, no matter how many computers he/she has strapped on, telling me how I can or can't dive.

As far as log books go, how can you be sure that it isn't all a fantasy, forged names, etc. Again, I don't want to sound like Methusala, but I have made far more dives than I could write down, even in a very large logbook! So I don't bother with one.

I know all the cliches about " old, bold divers", but feel that its up to the diver to take responsibility, not the dive boat operator. In the good old days (save your remarks!), the dive boat was there to get you to the reef, then it was up to you to take care of the rest. I also know that diving is probably safer today than way back when, but I wonder at what cost.

I guess this, in some ways, mirrors society - do we want the government "protecting" us from ourselves, or do we take responsibility for our own lives?

If I'm bringing up a discussion that's already been covered, then I apologize in advance. I'd just like to know what you think. Thanks!

And just FYI, I do agree that Mexico can be a dangerous place to dive, having experienced my share of close calls, thanks to a poor dive operation.

 

[sasscuba]

Computers just make the diving safer and less of a hassle, IMHO.

 

[ClayJar]

I can dive without a computer, but I like to use my computer as a "black box" to monitor my dives for later analysis. I plot out my profiles, and post-dive analysis can be quite interesting. It's often rather enlightening to see what my depth profile *really* looked like on that square-profile sandy-bottom dive, for example.

Of course, I'm an information junkie, but I really appreciate having the added detail. (It's hard to calculate accurate average surface-adjusted air consumption numbers without a reliable average depth, for example.) As far as things like logbooks go, I use mine the same way as I use the computer -- as a vast repository of useful information.

 

[DennisS]

I'm an OF diver. I put off buying a computer until about 5 years ago. My reasoning was that a computer that "fits" a 21 year old in shape diver won't "fit" a 55 year old, out of shape diver. I always used next deeper depth and time on the tables. I ended up buying a Suunto Cobra, very conservative in the normal mode, and unrealistically conservative in any of the other modes.

I could see requiring a computer on a live aboard where diving is intense day after day, but I can't see any justification on a two dive afternoon trip.

 

[dherbman]

I think it will become a requirement for ops to receive liabilty insurance at some point.

 

[Walt1957]

I'm new, so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dive charts much more conservative than computers as far as bottom time since they are based on max depth beeing the depth for the whole dive, rather than actual times at a given depth? If someone were legitimately following the computer versus legitimately following a depth chart it would seem the chart would be safer ... assuming that we are talking about a person smart enough to use the charts and keep times. Or is it that they think we are not that smart?

 

[loosebits]

Safety or Profit: The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Hi there,

When I started diving, no one had bc's or octopus regulators, much less computers. We learned to buddy breathe, learned the dive tables, were made aware of the dangers, and we went out to dive. I guess I am of the old school that says "hey, its your life, you may live it like you want." .........As far as log books go, how can you be sure that it isn't all a fantasy, forged names, etc. Again, I don't want to sound like Methusala, but I have made far more dives than I could write down, even in a very large logbook! So I don't bother with one.

.

Have you started using any of these new fangled contraptions like octo, bc, spg? Whether a computer should be required or not could be argued a dozen different ways but it comes down to the dive operation. If they require it, you can chose to go or not go.

I dove with an operation that had the gall to require an alternate air source and timing device. (watch or anything else that timed) You'd be surprised how many didn't have them. and this was just a few years ago.

 

[dherbman]

I'm new, so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dive charts much more conservative than computers as far as bottom time since they are based on max depth beeing the depth for the whole dive, rather than actual times at a given depth? If someone were legitimately following the computer versus legitimately following a depth chart it would seem the chart would be safer ... assuming that we are talking about a person smart enough to use the charts and keep times. Or is it that they think we are not that smart?

I do updates about once a week. Of the last 6 people I updated, none could work the tables coming into the update.

Yes, assuming you are not diving a square profile, the tables will be more conservative than computers.

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
First, I was somewhat shocked to discover that computers are required in some places in order to dive.
..snip..
I know technology is great but wonder at the same time if this isn't just a move to force people to spend more money at the dive shop.
..snip..
I guess this, in some ways, mirrors society - do we want the government "protecting" us from ourselves, or do we take responsibility for our own lives?
..snip..

The only places that I've come across a requirement to dive with a computer are fairly isolated ones with a relatively poor infrastucture and if you take a hit you'll put the operator to a lot of inconvenience no matter how much insurance you may carry.

One example that springs to mind is Turks & Caicos. Last time I checked it was obligatory and if you didn't have one they'd rent you one for about 10USD/day.

It's not just a case of being responsible for your own actions and accepting the consequences. It's when you inconvenience others.
If you want a similar example - One thing that really gets me is how much of the taxes I pay go to treat idiots that can't be bothered to use a seat belt and then when they get involved in an accident consume a significant part of public funds that could be better used.