The "Mount Everest of Scuba diving"

[wardric]

I know this is not the main subject of the thread but since it's the Everest (or K2 or Denali) of diving, isn't the Doria a protected site??? I would have never tought it was legal to bring artifacts from this ship to the surface.

The Empress of Ireland is now a protected site, shouldn't the Doria be the same:

the Empress of Ireland, a Culutral Property

The Wreck Is Now Protected

The explorers of the 1960s found a wreck that had not yet been visited. Within 30 years, thousands of items had been recovered with relative ease. With this uncontrolled salvaging, public fear grew that the wreck would not be preserved.

In 1998, an expedition that would have resulted in the destruction of part of the wreck drew attention to the threat. Several local citizens petitioned the federal and provincial governments to assure the protection of the Empress of Ireland. On April 15, 1999, Québec’s Ministère de la Culture et des Communications classified the wreck in the category “historical and archaeological property,” thus showing its great symbolic and commemorative value as the biggest maritime tragedy in the history of Canada. This protected status prohibits any intervention or salvaging of artifacts from the ship.

In the spring of 1999, the Canadian Coast Guard moored a white buoy near the wreck, thus indicating that it is a protected site.

Diving on the wreck is still permitted as long as the divers respect the regulations outlined in the Cultural Property Act.

Thanks to the generosity of these divers, many of the salvaged items may be viewed by the public. They bear witness to the tragedy, allowing the memory of the Empress of Ireland to live on.

A Marine Graveyard
Time continues to do its work, relentlessly deteriorating the immense wreck of the Empress of Ireland. However, the history of the ocean liner, especially of its tragic end, will long fascinate imaginations everywhere. Many divers continue to explore the wreck, tomb for about 600 of the 1,012 victims of this tragedy.

[TheHobster]

i think its a bad thing people takeing things from a wreck it means there is less for the next person too see.. when you think about it say everyone from mounteverist took a peice of the sumit home.. the mountain would slowly become nothing over time.. thouse charters incurage looting which is a bad thing personaly i think looting ships should be banned.. as if everyone did it there would be nothing left to see.. but an empty gutted ship

this is a ship0 that is deteriorating quickly; why not grab some china? the wreck has already had decks collapse - in salt water, oxidation occurs and eventually it will ate best collapse on itself, at worst completely deteriorate - look at the U 352 - what we see is the pressure hull; the outer hull has already rusted out
\
but alas, this has been debated ad nauseum for years - just check the aforementioned cdnn injits to see their position

[mello-yellow]

Once I was getting a class into a local quarry and another instructor stood there belly deep at the entry area with his octo and consol dangling and just generally a mess bragging to his students about how he had dived the "Mount Everest of Diving". I sort of wondered if he or his students were going to survive their quarry dive but he's the guy that comes to mind when I hear the name "The Mount Everest of Diving".

Nothing worse than a instructor that glorifies dangerous dives to students.

Several years ago (2004?) I got an e-mail from some dive shop in Norway, advertising their advanced classes. Quote from the e-mail:

"You will be in good hands with our instructor [some long Scandinavian name] who last summer became the first person to dive alone and unassisted at the North Pole."

Ummm... impressive, but is that who you want for an instructor?

[Gilldiver]

I know this is not the main subject of the thread but since it's the Everest (or K2 or Denali) of diving, isn't the Doria a protected site??? I would have never tought it was legal to bring artifacts from this ship to the surface.

[/I]

The Doria was a commerical ship lost in international waters. As such, when she sank she became the property of the owners under Admiralty law. The US and any US State can not claim her as she is beyond 24 miles from any US coast. The Abandoned Shipwreck Act is not applicable as the wreck is not in State waters (mostly within 3 miles of shore unless in "inland or enclosed waters" such as a river, bay, or Sound such as Long Island Sound.

At this time there is an Admiralty salvage claim on her by John Moyer. John will not enforce his claim on regular sport divers after china etc. But if you bring up the forward bell or one of the frescos, John may have you in Federal court real quick.

By the way, John dosen't "own" the Doria, the insurers do. But the Federal court has the final say. Until you get everythign processed through the court, you don't own it.

The Empress can be claimed by Canada as she is in Canadian waters.

Only warships or nationaly flaged ships of a government have automatic sovern immunity. The Titanic is a special case as the US Congress passed a law stating that artifacts can not be sold or traded in the US. Congress did not get into the dirty "ownership" issues.

[Thalassamania]

Several years ago (2004?) I got an e-mail from some dive shop in Norway, advertising their advanced classes. Quote from the e-mail:

"You will be in good hands with our instructor [some long Scandinavian name] who last summer became the first person to dive alone and unassisted at the North Pole."

Ummm... impressive, but is that who you want for an instructor?

That's a bit wierd to lead as a credential, he's not the only attempt on that order that I've heard of:

Marcus Fillinger _On April 12, 2003 Marcus Fillinger will be embarking on a world first solo unassisted dive of the Geographic North Pole. He will be leaving from ice base "Borneo" by helicopter on approximately April 15. From there he will be heading out with pulk, containing two dive tanks, dive gear, and camera gear to complete a documentary as well as record the solo unassisted dive of the north pole. He plan to be out on the ice for approximately 8-10 days / weather dependant. Ice depth and or the availability of open leads will determine where to dive. A helicopter will be used to find the direction to open water near the pole.

I don't know what happend.

[wardric]

The Doria was a commerical ship lost in international waters. As such, when she sank she became the property of the owners under Admiralty law. The US and any US State can not claim her as she is beyond 24 miles from any US coast. The Abandoned Shipwreck Act is not applicable as the wreck is not in State waters (mostly within 3 miles of shore unless in "inland or enclosed waters" such as a river, bay, or Sound such as Long Island Sound.

At this time there is an Admiralty salvage claim on her by John Moyer. John will not enforce his claim on regular sport divers after china etc. But if you bring up the forward bell or one of the frescos, John may have you in Federal court real quick.

By the way, John dosen't "own" the Doria, the insurers do. But the Federal court has the final say. Until you get everythign processed through the court, you don't own it.

The Empress can be claimed by Canada as she is in Canadian waters.

Only warships or nationaly flaged ships of a government have automatic sovern immunity. The Titanic is a special case as the US Congress passed a law stating that artifacts can not be sold or traded in the US. Congress did not get into the dirty "ownership" issues.

Thanks Gilldiver. I didn't know the Doria was in international waters.

[Mr.X]

The Doria was a commerical ship lost in international waters. As such, when she sank she became the property of the owners under Admiralty law. The US and any US State can not claim her as she is beyond 24 miles from any US coast. The Abandoned Shipwreck Act is not applicable as the wreck is not in State waters (mostly within 3 miles of shore unless in "inland or enclosed waters" such as a river, bay, or Sound such as Long Island Sound.

At this time there is an Admiralty salvage claim on her by John Moyer. John will not enforce his claim on regular sport divers after china etc. But if you bring up the forward bell or one of the frescos, John may have you in Federal court real quick.

By the way, John dosen't "own" the Doria, the insurers do. But the Federal court has the final say. Until you get everythign processed through the court, you don't own it.

John Moyer's Admiralty Arrest on the Doria:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lasalle/owners.html

Seems the insurers have no claim on her. This thread is getting stale.

X

[MikeFerrara]

I know about why he died, it was pretty common knowledge at the time of the incident, I just never heard about a court case.

Arounf here, the court case was commonknowledge too.

C'mon, don't try and justify a cdnn jones. It's like a crackhead trying to justify his addiction by comparing crack to chocolate. I know and you know that cdnn is a crap organization of the worst kind.

Just say no to cdnn.

I'm not trying to justify anything not do I feel the need to. I just did a quick google search and quickly scanned the article. The main points seemed to all be there and consistant with everything else I've heard and read over the years so I provided the link.

Beyond that, I don't kow much about cdnn. I don't know what your beef with them is and it isn't my problem. cdnn might be crap but it can't be crap of the "worst" kind. Another dive publication has that spot steaked out already.