what should i have done - student low on air

[lanun]

something's bugging me about what happened this weekend. would appreciate any pointers on what i should have done e.g. should not meddle, or what i could have done better e.g. bring 'em up to the surface quicker, etc.

fyi i cut and pasted this from my response to another thread (it was slightly off topic).



this past saturday i donated air to an OW student diver - happen to stop and watch the class just as the instructor bolted after another who appear to have lost bouyancy control.

Mr Murphy said hi about 30 seconds later when one of the ramaining students gave the low on air signal to his buddy (also a student) who promptly returned the same signal (huh ?!??). they were in the middle of the water column so i figured they might not have practiced sharing air in that position before so i shared my air instead. i had no idea if the instructor wanted them to stay put or head for the surface so i thought let's give it a couple minutes or so before heading for the surface. i figured, this person is new, the surface is choppy, he might be more comfortable with a reg instead of his snorkel while on the surface so what the hey, let him keep his air.

[Walter]

How much air did he have?

[lanun]

he had < 750psi (needle in the red zone), and we were at ~ 8 meters. there was a slight current, viz maybe 15 feet or so. we went in the water at about the same time (were on the same boat) though i still have ~ 2000psi on the same al80 he used.

i had the same thought, initially - with that much air left, he could easily surface without having to share air.

[Butch103]

beter safe than sorry...give the student air.......but I think I wouldhave surfaced irregardless.....Better to have the two students low on air at the surface than at depth. Also p*** on the instructor if he/she got upset that they surfaced. Again better safe than sorry.:boom:

[Walter]

With 750 PSI, I would have brought them both back to the boat on their own air supply. I would have monitored their air on the return.

[NetDoc]

is almost safety stop depth... I would agree totally with Walter. Let them use their own air to the surface and the boat.

However, if any diver signals low on AP, then it is the time to meddle. Don't worry about the instructor or the DM or whoever thinks they are the big sneeze around there. Follow your training, and do a safety stop and then surface slowly, constantly monitering their air. Remember, for some the 800 or 500 psi and you surface rule is ironclad. They will do anything and risk everything to not break that "rule". This results in a mild panic /paranoia situation and their air consumption can double or worse! Use touch and smile with your eyes to calm them down, and deal with the "powers that be" AFTER you are out of the suds.

[TCDiver1]

lanun once bubbled...
i had no idea if the instructor wanted them to stay put or head for the surface

This is the statement that gives me the most problem. Are you Dm'g or just helping out with a class? Careful if your not a certified & insured Dm, as you don't even want to consider the possible ramifications to you if a student gets hurt.

Back to the statement, pre-briefing for assistants helping out with training must be thorough. I make sure assistants are briefed on what to do in situations like this before anyone hits the water. You can't cover everything that could possibly happen but you can cover the things that do happen from time to time like low on air or buoyancy control issues. If your Dm'g, make sure you go over these kinds of things with the instructor before you hit the water. You can eliminate many potential problems by pre-planning appropriate responses to typical problems.

In your example our assistants would have known to get the buddy team togeather, locate and signal the instructor about the low on air situation and unless signaled otherwise make a direct ascent to the surface with the buddy team. If one of the students is a hoover, 750 psi can be borderline in getting this accomplished while still maintaining some reserves for murphy. I don't think donating air was necessarily wrong with what little i know of your situation but i would have briefed or recommended maintaining good contact with the buddy team and having your alternate air source out and in plan view (accessible) of the low on air diver until you break the surface, only donating it if the divers air gets below 400-500 psi.

JMO

[TCDiver1]

After re-reading your original post, i see you just happened to be in the water near a class, not Dm'g.

Sorry for the rant

[roturner]

lanun once bubbled...
something's bugging me about what happened this weekend. would appreciate any pointers on what i should have done e.g. should not meddle, or what i could have done better e.g. bring 'em up to the surface quicker, etc.

<snip>

It's really hard to say how I would react while sitting behind the computer...... but ......

Under normal circumstances, If I were just passing by (I'm assuming this was the case) and I saw two divers who I didn't know giving each other "low on air" in 8m of water, I would have approached, did "OK" and checked their air. If I got OK back from both divers and they both had 750 PSI I would have gone my merry way..... I mean we should be able to assume that two divers (presumably certified) with 750 psi in 8 metres of water who aren't having troubles should know what to do.

That's the normal case. Since you could see that they were with an instructor it changes things a bit. I don't know how you concluded that they were OW student but assuming this was obvious I would have approached, did OK, checked air and stayed with them. If visibility was OK, I would have taken them up to 5 meters to begin the safety stop. If I couldn't see the instructor coming back I would have finished the safety stop and surfaced with them. If the instructor wasn't on the surface I may have looked around for his bubbles and gone and got him but that's really speculating now......

I don't think I would have offered my octo but instead just begin with the ascent. They both had enough air and you don't need to make the problem seem bigger than it is. It's best to show newbies that even when they go over the 750psi rule that it's best to do a controlled ascent and a safety stop even it means dipping into the reserve (I mean, that's why you have one). 750psi isn't out of air so I wouldn't have treated it as out of air.....

I recently had an experience with someone low on air. It was a diver from our club (recently AOW certified) who tagged along with me and my buddy on a nice easy bimble (or so we thought). We agreed before the dive to signal at 1/2 air and he didn't do it (forgot). When I got to 130 bar about (2000psi) I wondered why he hadn't signalled 1/2 yet. I mean after 18 years of diving I'd expect the newbie to get to 1/2 before me :-) I swam over to him and checked his air..... he had 40 bar (500 psi) and we were still at 18 metres. I signalled by my regular buddy to abort the dive and as I was doing so the newbie had inflated himself in a big hurry to get to the surface and started shooting away from me. I rolled over on my back and gave him "slow/calm down" with both hands to which he dumped all of the air from his BCD and plumetted past me again to 20 metres (the bottom). At that point I went and grabbed him by the BCD and took control of his inflator and started with a controlled ascent. My buddy took him by the other BCD strap and monitored his air (he seemed to calm down a lot at this point). I wear my octo on a necklace so I put it in my mouth and handed my primary to the newbie. He just held it in his hand and even after suggesting several times during the ascent that he should use it he just shook his head and gave ok. I figured it was better to concentrate on the ascent and not get pushy since my buddy was watching the guy's console.

After we surfaced the guy said about not using the octo "I just wanted to do it on my own". Go figure. He managed to surface on 18 bar and all cramped up from the stress (I ended up pushing him a couple hundred metres back to shore on top of it all). My buddy said later that when the guy got to 20bar that he was seriously considering getting pushy about the octo but he could see that we were almost there.....

Anyway, I've digressed badly but if you don't mind me butting into your thread, what would you have done about that? Be pushy and risk making it worse by having a conflict with him or not pushy and risk him really running out of air (given that he had an octo in his hand).

R..

[MikeFerrara]

As for your part lanun all is well that ends well. It seems they were left alone without supervision and that is a big NO NO! It may be a very good thing you were there. When assisting another do as you have been trained as see fit. Who care what the instructor wants?

I have had to assist other instructors students a number of times and I do it how I want, If the instructor doesn't like it he should take steps to avoid putting me and the student in that situation.