Purchasing an Oxygen kit and where to get O2

[Thalassamania]

I agree, but as you already know the BVM takes practice to use correctly, far more so than the demand valve. The demand valve is perhaps the easiest to use and teach to the layperson, and they have the flexibilty for use as demand oxygen source for the conscious patient. But I agree, they should be removed from DAN's list of approved devices. I have one on my setup, but only for the conscious person to use, NOT for assisting ventilations.

We are in the same court, we're just fussing about details.

[donooo]

The numbers that they use for the demand valve is aproximatly 8 LPM. The non-rebreather mask is set at a constant flow of 15LPM. So round numbers, your O2 tank will last twice as long with the demand valve on a breathing victim.

Just did a DAN DEMP class for an 8 person County SAR team. It took a bit of practice to get the masks to seal in ALL cases. That's the difference between 100% and 80% or less.

Most of the problems with the positive pressure ventillators of the past have been cured by this generation of MTV-100's. The will shut off at a pressure of 40 lb's. The old might continue on to 160.

The DAN Advanced O2 course teaches the MTV-100 and BVM as both can cause damage withour proper training. DAN sells a BVM for $16, that is worth owning with or without O2.

Wish that I could help you with "facts" but it seems to me that if your only source is 100% O2, then a bad seal on the mask is the most likely place to fall below 100%.

adios don O

[oxyhacker]

One thing probably worth mentioning is that most currently available partial rebreather masks have intentional built-in leaks that prevent them from getting much higher than 85% or so, and require wastefully high flow rates to get that.

If a mask cannot be found without the vent, it is possible to modify some vented masks by adding a second valve flapper from another mask, or in a pinch, the administrator or administratee can cover the vent with his/her thumb to obtain a higher FO2.

[Thalassamania]

One thing probably worth mentioning is that most currently available partial rebreather masks have intentional built-in leaks that prevent them from getting much higher than 85% or so, and require wastefully high flow rates to get that.

That's what I'd been told and thus stayed away from them.

If a mask cannot be found without the vent, it is possible to modify some vented masks by adding a second valve flapper from another mask, or in a pinch, the administrator or administratee can cover the vent with his/her thumb to obtain a higher FO2.

Good to know.

[Glock Diver]

Wow! I didn't even realize the can of worms that I opened!

I went ahead and ordered this kit from Medical Supplies | Airway Management, Extrication & Immobilization, Patient transport Equipment, Diagnostics Supplies and more - GoldenHourMed.com for $276.
Any thoughts?

Sounded like a decent deal, as the kit included more than just O2 supplies. Here's this list:
Fully Loaded Oxygen kit
(1) oral airway kit set of 6 size
(1) oxygen regulator 0-15 lpm
(1) oxygen Tank aluminum C size SHIPPED EMPTY
(1) disposable adult resuscitator BVM with handle
(1) oxygen nasal cannula adult
(2) Oxygen mask non-rebreathing adult
(1) Oxygen mask non-rebreathing pediatric
(1) Blood pressure cuff
(1) Stethoscope
(1) trauma utility shears 7-1/2"&
(1) disposable penlight with pupil gauge
(1) IRON DUCK Pack Case Plus #32499A 19"lx12"wx8"h


The DAN O2 Providers course is on Oct 29. Hopefully I won't need my own O2 kit, but I'd much rather have one and never need it than not have one and need it.

[DaFireMedic]

Kudos to you for enrolling in the DAN O2 class. Hopefully you won't need the emergency skills, but who knows whose life you might save. Good job.

Nice kit. The BVM can be difficult to use as a 1 person skill, but with practice it is the best device availabe for resuscitation within the scope of basic life support. I notice that a pocket mask is pictured, but is not shown on the list. Does the pocket mask have a port for supplemental oxygen? This is very important, especially if you find that you are unable to effectively use the BVM.

Also, be aware that the C size cylinder is pretty small and will only provide oxygen for a short period of time via non-rebreather mask, and only a few minutes at best for resuscitation with the BVM. Even in populated areas, you have to consider the time that it takes to access the EMS system (via cell phone, etc.), the time it takes to dispatch the units, response times for the EMS units, and the time for EMS providers to reach your location on the beach. In the event of a diving emergency, you don't want any gaps in the oxygen therapy, so you might want to consider adding a larger cylinder when you can.

[Doc Harry]

A few more thoughts:

Training:
All devices should be coupled with appropriate training. Such training will also help you decide what kit is most appropriate for your needs

Masks:
For any kit, I’d include a resuscitation mask with oxygen inlet (e.g. “Pocket Mask”). They can be used with either breathing or non-breathing patients.
I’d also include a few non-rebreather masks. They’re cheap, disposable (can’t be sanitized) and as previously discussed can provide high concentrations of oxygen for a breathing patient.

For those who like bag-valve masks, by all means, include them. They’re not very expensive. Be sure to consider those that can be used with supplemental oxygen. But note that they are difficult to use in a single rescuer scenario.

Regulators:
The simplest and least expensive kit to consider would include a simple, “one-stage” regulator that provides only an adjustable constant-flow outlet. This might well be sufficient for the casual diver. If I were injured, I’d much rather have one of these around than nothing.

A step up is a demand (patient activated) regulator that includes a somewhat more complex regulator (in the case of DAN’s kit, it’s like having a scuba first stage and a second stage). Typically these first stages also include an adjustable constant-flow outlet so a second patient can be served. This is what I own.

Somewhat more complex is a regulator that adds the positive-pressure ventilation feature, such as DAN’s MTV-100. This will be my next kit.

The crème de la crème would be an Automatic Transport Ventilator that senses the patient’s breathing, or lack thereof and adjusts accordingly. But these cost thousands of dollars, and are probably not a consideration for most.

Cylinders:
The farther away you dive from emergency medical care, the more oxygen you should have.

Summary:
The minimum kit I’d like to see around all dive sites would include:
a small cylinder
a constant flow regulator
a pocket mask
a non-rebreather mask

EXCELLENT SUMMARY

[jakeeib]

I have 2 size E O2 tanks and since I moved from Germany back to the states had to empty both, so here is my question. Do the tanks need any type of inspections ,like our air tanks, other then the visual from the filler? I f so who would/could do it?

[jakeeib]

also they are steel, i bought both at a goveremt sale as Army surplus each has non rebreathing masks.

[hollywood703]

I have been in EMS for 12 years.....If demand valves were so good, every ambulance and ER would be using them...They are NOT! We use the Masks that DeepB posted with the resevoir bag attached which via medically proven tests that put those masks at as close to 100% as you are going to get using any type of mask. Dont waste your money on a demand valve.