Dive boat dive guide VS my computer?

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kalvyn

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OK, I just have to ask this question. I just got back from a vacation in Maui, and my wife and I did a couple of days diving. On the second day, first dive, they said we would have about 26 minutes at 85 fsw, according to the PADI dive tables.

While we were down, I was watching my Mosquito computer, which also gave me ~26 minutes. At about 2 minutes of NDT left by my Suunto, I signaled the DM by pointing at my computer, then up.

After everyone else came back up a few minutes later, the DM came over to me, and basically said to ignore my computer as it was wrong.

To be honest, this sort of concerned me. Besides, according to my NAUI table, I had only had 22 minutes at 85 fsw (started the day as an A diver). I mean, I am supposed to plan my dive, and dive my plan. I did this, but was told something otherwise.

So, in the future, should I do what the DMs have planned, or listen to my NAUI table and computer?

Jimmie
 
Is the DM going to take the bends hit for you if he's wrong?

No?

Gee, who do YOU trust? :)
 
Genesis once bubbled...
Is the DM going to take the bends hit for you if he's wrong?

No?

Gee, who do YOU trust? :)
Well, to quote my wife: "The whole point of diving with an outfit like this is they plan everything for you!". I was trying to convince her that in this particular case, I was going to listen to my computer, thank you very much.

We both liked the outfit we dived with on Maui (Ed Robinson's), and will most likely dive with them again. I just don't want to feel like a moron when I basically tell someone with a heck of a lot more dives then I have that I am diving by my plan, thanks for your input on the conservatism of my Suunto.

Jimmie
 
kalvyn once bubbled...
Well, to quote my wife: "The whole point of diving with an outfit like this is they plan everything for you!". I was trying to convince her that in this particular case, I was going to listen to my computer, thank you very much.

We both liked the outfit we dived with on Maui (Ed Robinson's), and will most likely dive with them again. I just don't want to feel like a moron when I basically tell someone with a heck of a lot more dives then I have that I am diving by my plan, thanks for your input on the conservatism of my Suunto.
I highly doubt any reasonable person would consider you a moron for that, although some may be temped to apply the term to the DM in question here. If you are going to be the one to take the hit, then you are the one responsible for your safety... period. If they want to plan your dive for you, then they should take the consequenses as well. Since they can't do that, they can't plan your dive either. Sure, they may be able to ADD conservatism, but no DM should force you to take additional risks beyond the level you are comfortable with. Plan your dive, dive YOUR plan.
 
It will raise hell at you for doing so, you know.

It will DEMAND deco stops.

If you blow THEM off, it will lock you out for 48 hours (for the Suuntos.)

Now what? You have no dive planning tool!

Sorry, no dice for me. I plan my dive and dive my plan. Any DM that tried to tell me that my computer was wrong would get an earful, and it would not be pleasant to be on the receiving end.

I dive a Suunto computer as well. Its quite conservative. That's ok - I'm not 20 any more, and since I'm getting to be more and more like an old f##t, I'll take the conservatism. Its a CHOICE, and one that I choose to make. The couple of minutes is not a big deal compared to a hit that I could otherwise suffer.

You did right by calling the dive when you ran out of time. Hell, the DM could have gone in last, and you first, and THAT could amount for the difference. In that case he really DID have less exposure than you!

Never mind that the point of a computer is that you know EXACTLY where you are in the water column. The DM can be 5' above you and be uptaking less N2. You're looking at something crawling or swimming around 6" off the sand and taking MORE N2 exposure.

Trust and dive YOUR instruments.
 
were you paying the DM to dive with you / guide you?? Or did they make you follow the dm?

Regardless.... dive your own plan and/or instruments. Did your scuba instruction include "do not share computers... 1 for each diver"? That seems like what they want to do. Share the dm's dive plan. Not good, especially since they seemed to get pretty close to NDL's. Everyone descends at different rates, and like previously mentioned, everyone's depth varies... even if it's only a couple feet deeper.

I've never dove at a "follow the DM" dive location. Is this common? I guess I'll have to make sure my scuba destinations don't force that kind of thing.
 
was your profile exactly 100% the same as the DM?

Thought not!!

For exactly the same reasons every diver should use their own computer and not buddy share computers....
 
I agree with what everyone has said about diving your computer not anyone else's. In addition to your computer reflecting your dive, the guideline for buddy teams is that you allow the most conservative computer to determine the dive -- so in either situation, you should be ascending enough to stay within your computer's no deco limits (you don't necessarily need to surface, but following the group at 10 to 20 feet above them may be enough -- in situations where conditions and viz allow it.)


I also want to say a couple of things about the response you reported with the boat.

I have heard a number of discussions about Suunto's algorithms being very conservative, and not always seeming rationale -- perhaps this is what the DM was referring to -- However, in my opinion, you bought a piece of safety equipment for a reason, and you should use it accordingly. If for some reason _you_ decide that you don't think your dive computer's logic is appropriate, then choose a new one -- don't just ignore the one you have. (which you didn't)

Finally, I have dived quite a bit with Ed Robinson's operation, and what I have heard consistantly in every briefing is: This is what we are planning (so many feet for so many minutes) -- please don't get in front of or deeper than the guide --- Feel free to stay shallower if you wish -- either for equalization reasons or any other reasons. If you need to ascend and return to the boat early, be sure to signal good bye to the guide, and if you prefer, they will buddy you up with someone. -- I know this is their standard briefing and their standard procedure -- so I'm wondering if there might have been a misunderstanding between you and the guide. I would also suggest that it would be a good idea to drop an e-mail to the Ed Robinson team so they can make sure their staff is all on the same page.

Liz
 
Everyone else has already said what I was going to. Your computer is not wrong. If is says time to go up, it's time to go up.
 
I have dove (dived?) following DM's before. But never once did they exceed the plan, and their plan was always more conservative than my computer (a Suunto as well). But, if the case were ever different, I would follow my computer.
 
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