Underwater Navigation Device

[scubasteve66]

I’m working at USC as a researcher in the Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering department, where my group has come across some interesting technology. As a project for a class, we are looking into the feasibility of bringing a device to market that would function as an underwater GPS-type navigation device. While we’re working on the best way to do physically do this, we’re also looking into whether or not it is even worth trying. If you would be interested in such a device, or think it’s idiotic, input from anyone is greatly appreciated. If you have a few minutes, please fill out the brief survey below. If you’re time limited, answer whichever questions you’d like. Thanks in advance!

What are your feelings about an underwater navigational device?

What do you find most difficult about underwater navigation?

How long have you been diving, and how has your answer to the last question changed as you’ve become more experienced?

When looking for a specific feature at a dive site (cave, wreck, etc…) how often do you have difficulty find it? If you’ve had difficulties with this, would your rather have a map to look at, or a simple arrow telling you the distance, direction, and depth to the feature?

Have you ever used any devices (other than a compass) for underwater navigation, and if so, what were your experiences with them?

How often have you been separated from your dive partner? Of those times, how many times have you easily found them, and how many took longer than you would have liked?

What would be your biggest reason for purchasing a navigation device (safety, better dives, comfort, etc…)?

Do you use a dive computer? If so, what type do you use, how much did it cost, and what made you purchase your particular model?

How often do you replace your computer, and what will you be looking for in your next one that your current model lacks?

If your next purchase of computer had an option for a practical navigational aid, how strongly would you consider the following features? Please rate from 1= Unnecessary to 5=Important, and add any comments you feel are necessary.

Distance and direction to boat (or dive starting location):

Distance and direction to dive partner (or other divers):

Waypoints for dive features (caves, wrecks, etc…):

Actual map of dive site:

A recorded path of your dive (including air usage and swim speed):

Some facts about you:
Geographic location (state or country):
Do you prefer boat dives or beach dives:
Favorite dive spot:

[The Kraken]

1: Would be of great value for returning to different locations during a dive. Would be excellent device for search and recovery.

2: 1- currents, 2 - compass movement

3: 38 years, not appreciably

4: Great difficulty - visibility ranges from 10' to 2'. An active "moving highway" type display with ample backlighting would be best (similar to that found in current GPS units)

5: No

6: A bunch - very few - all of them

7: Ease of locating a specific point

8: Yes - Oceanic - $360 - features I desired

9: Perhaps every 6 to 10 years - features not found in my current computer that are required as my diving levels change

10: 1 - I would not want my navigation device intergrated with my computer. The probability of failure and the resultant ending of the dive and the subsequent return for repair would, in my opinion, be an unacceptable necessity.

Distance and Direction to Boat - 5, an absolute necessity

Distance and Direction to Dive Buddy - 1, that's a complete impracticality. Unless your dive buddy has some sort of tracking device located upon his person which the unit can detect, there would be no way for the navigational unit to determine his whereabouts.

Waypoints - 5, that's what this device is all about

Map of Dive Site - 1, I think the input requirements would be to cumbersome for a hand held unit and the labor intensity of putting in such data would be a drawback to the practical usage.

Recorded Path of Dive - 5, would aid in establishing a mental layout of the divesite. The swim speed and air usage, I think are unnecessary. The speed would be a factor if one did not stop here and there to look at things and were used solely for navigational purposes. I suppose the data could be collected and used at the discretion of the diver. Air usage would require tapping into the tank pressure somehow which would necessitate either a high pressure hose attached to the 1st stage regulator (and some 1st stages have only 1 HP port precluding the use of any other devices which would motitor tank pressure) or an electronic transmission device.

Location - Georgia, USA
No Preference
Where I am at the time

[*Floater*]

Originally Posted by scubasteve66

What are your feelings about an underwater navigational device?

It would be a great convenience factor for those divers who could afford it.

What do you find most difficult about underwater navigation?

It takes time and experience to learn to navigate with a compass and off landmarks. A device like this would just make finding sites and finding your way back to the boat a lot easier.

How long have you been diving, and how has your answer to the last question changed as you’ve become more experienced?

About 4 years, but navigation is not my strong suit. I wouldn't trust myself to find my way back to the boat on many of the DM lead dives I do. I suppose that could change with practice, but with a GPS device I wouldn't even need to practice.

When looking for a specific feature at a dive site (cave, wreck, etc…) how often do you have difficulty find it? If you’ve had difficulties with this, would your rather have a map to look at, or a simple arrow telling you the distance, direction, and depth to the feature?

Usually I have a guide or buddy who does the navigating. I'd prefer the simple arrow.

Have you ever used any devices (other than a compass) for underwater navigation, and if so, what were your experiences with them?

No, except for a map slate.

How often have you been separated from your dive partner? Of those times, how many times have you easily found them, and how many took longer than you would have liked?

Sometimes I get temporarily separated and have to look around, but never for more than a minute, except twice when we got hit with some crap that obscured visibility completely, those happened on ascents so we met on the surface.

What would be your biggest reason for purchasing a navigation device (safety, better dives, comfort, etc…)?

Convenience - if I could afford it. It would be luxury rather than a necessity.

Do you use a dive computer? If so, what type do you use, how much did it cost, and what made you purchase your particular model?

Oceanic Versa Pro. User-friendly, liberal (aggressive) algorithm, nitrox, user-replaceable battery, gauge mode. It was about $300 with upload cable and shipping.

How often do you replace your computer, and what will you be looking for in your next one that your current model lacks?

I'll replace it if it dies. I did buy a bottom timer for backup recently and because it had a cool average depth feature.

If your next purchase of computer had an option for a practical navigational aid, how strongly would you consider the following features? Please rate from 1= Unnecessary to 5=Important, and add any comments you feel are necessary.

Distance and direction to boat (or dive starting location):

Distance and direction to dive partner (or other divers):

Waypoints for dive features (caves, wrecks, etc…):

Actual map of dive site:

A recorded path of your dive (including air usage and swim speed):

Some facts about you:
Geographic location (state or country):
Do you prefer boat dives or beach dives:
Favorite dive spot:

Finding back to the boat, or sites I would mark in the unit's memory, and a buddy pointer, would all be cool features, but not necessities. If I could afford a unit like that and it got good reviews then I'd buy it.

However, I'm not sure it would even be necessary to combine it with a computer initially. If you can make an underwater navigation device then just make it independent of the computer functions, or bottom timer features at most. Later when the technology improves perhaps it could be incorporated into some of the dive computers.

[Otter]

Post returned and the TOS will be modified to accommodate this type of market research (a personal thanks to Pete for allowing this!)

[Garrobo]

Question:: "What do you find most difficult about underwater navigation?" Answer:: Finding my way back to the boat.

[Bobyjimmie]

I find it hard to believe this is legit considering special operations troops in the military still send up a float with an antennae for their GPS but hey if you can come up with such a device Id like one please.

[dpbishop]

There is an underwater boat location system available [URL="http://www.desertstar.com/newsite/sport/sportscout.html"]

If this could be combined with a topside GPS it could store the boats position & calculate your position relative to those coordinates, thus enabling almost any GPS function you want. To function as a buddy locater you would need a two way system. It would definitely be worth looking into, if the price was reasonable.

[awap]

Key will be cost. Most divers just use a compass for less than $100. Very few also use a homing beacon system that will at least get them back to their start point. But these are fairly expensive and not often seen. Do you envision your system to be an expensive nitch device like the homing beacon or price competetive with a high end compass? If it is too pricey, only those with a special need will be likely to make the investment.

I have used a surface GPS on a dive float to aid in mapping a site but all my navigation is done by compass and terrain features. The only time I tend to fail is when visability is too poor to locate known terrain features. I've never been unable to successfully navigate the termination of a dive with no more than a compass.

[Thalassamania]

The technology to do it exists, its called "ultra short baseline acoustic positioning," it's just too expensive for divers.

[fdog]

What are your feelings about an underwater navigational device?

I'd use it if - I have no shame about using technology. Provided it was easy to use.

What do you find most difficult about underwater navigation?

Keeping track of range. Counting kicks works well but I don't have much brains left over to enjoy the dive by sightseeing.

How long have you been diving, and how has your answer to the last question changed as you’ve become more experienced?

About 35 yearsish. Hasn't changed much, range has always been the hardest factor for me.

When looking for a specific feature at a dive site (cave, wreck, etc…) how often do you have difficulty find it?

If I had good information beforehand, hardly ever have a problem.

If you’ve had difficulties with this, would your rather have a map to look at, or a simple arrow telling you the distance, direction, and depth to the feature?

Map

Have you ever used any devices (other than a compass) for underwater navigation, and if so, what were your experiences with them?

Desert Star; very vague occasionally when indicating direction

How often have you been separated from your dive partner?

Very rarerly - maybe 4 times total?

Of those times, how many times have you easily found them, and how many took longer than you would have liked?

Found every time, once longer than would have liked

What would be your biggest reason for purchasing a navigation device (safety, better dives, comfort, etc…)?

Better dives (return to prior dive site)

Do you use a dive computer? If so, what type do you use, how much did it cost, and what made you purchase your particular model?

Atmos2, $250, easily visible digits and excellent display layout

How often do you replace your computer, and what will you be looking for in your next one that your current model lacks?

Every 3-4 years, VPM-B

If your next purchase of computer had an option for a practical navigational aid, how strongly would you consider the following features? Please rate from 1= Unnecessary to 5=Important, and add any comments you feel are necessary.

Distance and direction to boat (or dive starting location):

3

Distance and direction to dive partner (or other divers):

1

Waypoints for dive features (caves, wrecks, etc…):

5

Actual map of dive site:

6!!!!!

A recorded path of your dive (including air usage and swim speed):

3

Some facts about you:
Geographic location (state or country):Reno NV
Do you prefer boat dives or beach dives:Both
Favorite dive spot:Bloody Bay Wall, Caymans


All the best, James