Wreck Penetration?

[easyrider003]

I was sitting around the Fire Station late last night and was just watching videos on youtube of people diving on different wrecks. I noticed in a majority of the videos that all the divers were going in and out of the wrecks. One of the videos was of an airplane wreck. They would just go in one door and out the other or may just turn and go into the cockpit for a very brief period of time. I was always taught that not to go into any overhead environments if your not trained. Now not saying that they werent trained or whatever but could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok? I have been on dives before off the coast of panama city and have noticed OW divers doing this very same thing. Just wanting your thought on this. Thanks

[fisherdvm]

I think on a daily basis, DM takes hundreds if not thousands of OW diver through caves, wrecks, short tubes, and long swim through without incidences. As a new OW diver with poor buoyancy skill, I would recommend that you swim over such structures, hand on, and wait till the DM comes out. It is not worth getting caught, tangled, or burn up air without help when you are caught and cut by these potentially dangereous situations.

[battles2a5]

There is such a thing as "recreational penetration" where the basic rules of cavern diving are applied; no more than 130 linear feet from the surface, in the daylight zone, etc. So simple swim thrus, be it in a wreck, reef, or whatever, are technically ok. That being said, if the poop hits the paddles during such a penetration there is no difference between recreational and full technical penetration. You could be stuck, you could shoot the vis, you can get entangled in mono-fil. You can be 2ft from the exit and it won't matter because you can't find it or physically cannot reach it. You will be denied a direct ascent to the surface and it can ruin your day. So people do it all the time and usually get away from it. But the smart money is on getting the training to enter the environment and learn how to deal w/ the eventualities that the given environment entails.

[Nick_W]

There is such a thing as "recreational penetration"

And this is exactly why these are my favorite threads.

[Doppler]

I was sitting around the Fire Station late last night and was just watching videos on youtube of people diving on different wrecks. I noticed in a majority of the videos that all the divers were going in and out of the wrecks. One of the videos was of an airplane wreck. They would just go in one door and out the other or may just turn and go into the cockpit for a very brief period of time. I was always taught that not to go into any overhead environments if your not trained. Now not saying that they werent trained or whatever but could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok? I have been on dives before off the coast of panama city and have noticed OW divers doing this very same thing. Just wanting your thought on this. Thanks

Speaking from an agency point of view and as an instructor who teaches techniques for diving in an overhead, there is no gray area. Open Water diving is just that and entering any overhead is not sanctioned.

Of course, as previously mentioned, open water divers often enter overhead environments without incident. However, this doesn't make it right. Also worth noting is that were a dive guide (DM, AI or Instructor) to lead open water divers into an overhead environment and god forbid something happened, they would not have a leg to stand on should the incident be reviewed in a court.

Short answer: unless you are equipped, trained and have planned for an overhead, stay outside.

[Buoyant1]

I took a Wreck specialty and (I'm no expert or authority on the subject by ANY stretch of the imagination) but they taught you to first evaluate the wreck for hazards etc. then look for any light at the end of the penetration, then penetrate within any light zone (using a reel if you need to go in then back out the same way) it doesn't give you "license" to do crazy penetrations, but it at least gives you some good insight on what limitations to set for yourself.

I wouldn't suggest going down a few decks on the Speigel Grove, but I wouldn't hesitate to do a swim through the helicoptor at Dutch Springs...

To the OP, I've seen some of those same vids, I'm sure, and wonder the same thing..but most of those guys are going in pretty deep! Unless there's something in some of those wrecks we don't know about (like if they are artificial reefs that have swims through areas with an egress built in) I would hesitate!

[Jim Kerr]

I was sitting around the Fire Station late last night and was just watching videos on youtube of people diving on different wrecks. I noticed in a majority of the videos that all the divers were going in and out of the wrecks. One of the videos was of an airplane wreck. They would just go in one door and out the other or may just turn and go into the cockpit for a very brief period of time. I was always taught that not to go into any overhead environments if your not trained. Now not saying that they werent trained or whatever but could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok? I have been on dives before off the coast of panama city and have noticed OW divers doing this very same thing. Just wanting your thought on this. Thanks

Doppler is absolutely right. There are "alot" of hidden dangers inside a wreck or cave that may not seem obvious at first. And "that" is the problem. Some divers think that going in for a quick little look see couldn't hurt because it "looks"safe. Sadly there have been many who thought that and ended up paying the ultimate price.

Swim thru's are very common and I am guilty of going thru them myself. On a swim thru you are usually able to see the light at the exit and they're not very long. But go thru one of these where the diver in front of you is silting it up, now you've just lost your reference. So you turn to go back the way you came and guess what? You've been doing your own silting and can't see the entrance or you have other divers behind you blocking the entrance and you can't get out. Now what do you do? Get the picture?

There are also entanglements that may snag and possibly damage your hose and regulator or you may just have an equipment failure. Now you don't have air and it's too narrow for your buddy to get along side of you and his hose is too short to pass it to you so you can breath off it. Now what do you do? Get the picture?

Obviously I'm not talking airplane wrecks but what's the point of that. You can see just as much looking into it as you could going inside. My advise is, stay on the outside looking in until you've got the training.

[diver 85]

I was sitting around the Fire Station late last night and was just watching videos on youtube of people diving on different wrecks. I noticed in a majority of the videos that all the divers were going in and out of the wrecks. One of the videos was of an airplane wreck. They would just go in one door and out the other or may just turn and go into the cockpit for a very brief period of time. I was always taught that not to go into any overhead environments if your not trained. Now not saying that they werent trained or whatever but could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok? I have been on dives before off the coast of panama city and have noticed OW divers doing this very same thing. Just wanting your thought on this. Thanks

life itself is a gamble, so why not---as you have described the situations-- go in.....

IMO, he's not describing a 2000 foot descending cave dive, instead a simple entry/exit with no siltouts etc etc(with probably good vis & warm temps).......It's like anything else, a little common sense & thinking goes a long way.......

[scarefaceDM]

Short answer...Nothing wrong with a safe swim through. But ask your self what is safe. and are you willing to take the risk. Is your bouyancy perfect and is there anything dangling where it can become an entanglement hazard.

That being said. Any overhead environment diving should not be taken lightly. Many recreational divers are not trained in such an environment. and technically should not even consider it. However the mighty dollar does rule on vacation dives. Where doing a quick peek a boo into a wreck is ok aslong as there is a DM or a guide with you....right...um no.

Risks are high in certain environments. The slitess sweep of a fin kick can lead to zero vis and a possible panic. And more problems can arise from that. Poor bouyancy skills, dangling gear- Snorkels....

Bouyancy is a major issue. Improper fin kicks is another factor plus dangling gear, inadequate gas management etc...Those that wish to do overhead diving...get the training. It will serve you well in ALL aspects of dive exploration. Vacation or back home...you will become a better diver.

[ppo2_diver]

could an OW diver still go into something like a small cessna for a very brief period of time and still be ok?

I wouldn't go into a Cesna. No room to turn around if needed.

As others have posted, OW divers shouldn't attempt to dive in an overhead environment unless properly trained by a highly competent and skilled wreck/cave instructor. Many instructors are great at penetrating the houseboats that dot our local quarries, but put them in a real wreck and their skill, knowledge, and viz go to crap!!!

Sorry. I went off on a tangent. What were we talking about?