DIR Class: The Truth Comes Out

[SeaJay]

detroit diver once bubbled...

All in all, a very interesting set of circumstances. It showed me how flexible and talented that AG was. Someone gave him the nickname "Spiderman" because of his long arms and legs!

Oh, you've got to be kidding.

We came up with exactly the same nickname, for exactly the same reason.

C'mon... There's got to be a link somewhere. There's no way that we both *just so happened* to come up with exactly the same nickname.

Lol...

Maybe one of our group had heard your nickname for him before.

I also learned a lesson. If your 2nd stage starts to lose air at the hose connection, you cannot try to tighten it without first shutting down the valve and purging the pressure from the system. If you try to do it while pressurized, you will cut the o-ring and then you have NO chance of fixing the problem.

What a great lesson. I would not have thought of that before... Thanks for sharing that.

[detroit diver]

I dont' remember if I used that nickname when I posted the original story, or not. But it does fit!

I actually used that lesson I learned last week during a pool dive. The connection was free-flowing badly. I shut down the system, but unfortunately the o-ring was shot. If not for that class, I would have just tried to twist the connection tighter.

SeaJay once bubbled...


Oh, you've got to be kidding.

We came up with exactly the same nickname, for exactly the same reason.

C'mon... There's got to be a link somewhere. There's no way that we both *just so happened* to come up with exactly the same nickname.

Lol...

Maybe one of our group had heard your nickname for him before.



What a great lesson. I would not have thought of that before... Thanks for sharing that.

[jplacson]

Hmm... dunno if I should revive this thread... anyway... Seajay, I'm planning to take the DIR-F course here in the Philippines next year... I was told that the GUE group (JJ, GI and most everyone) comes here once a year to my friend's resort. My friends are all GUE and probably the best (cave) divers here in the Philippines as well... and they've been telling me to take the course.

I have to start saving up for it now... sheesh... after all the gear I just got from Halcyon... I'm broke!!!!

Anyway, today was my first dive in relatively strong (and shifting) currents. I was amazed at how my friends could still hover motionless without finning (no, they weren't close to the ground... I was right below them... HUGGING THE SAND!!!! )

Once back on the surface, I asked how they did it.. they were explaining about vacuum spots behind rocks, and how to predict them. I thought that was cool. I actually tried doing it beside them... but I still can't stay as horizontal as I should, so I had to fin a bit more than they did.

They also took me through a very small sunken boat... now don't freak, exit was in clear view, and it was pretty easy to fin through it... they said it was more of an overhead environment than a wreck since you could see your exit point from the entrance.

Well, it was still fun for me. hahaha.

They were trying to help me with my horizontal position... but I really couldn't get it. My feet still sink. The more I arch my back, the more I seem to roll head up. I think my trim weighting is all wrong... anyway, I'll practise it more. And if I try to dip my head, I slowly roll head down (until I'm upside-down! hahaha) ... they're not THAT off... I can hold a horizontal plane for quite a while... my roll is quite slow, and I can actually stay horizontal if I twitch my ankles, and dip my head from time to time... but I can't NOT move, and still stay horizontal.... grrrrrrrrr.....

But swimming through that little boat made me realize how valuable perfect buoyancy & alternate finning techniques are in a REAL wreck or cave. I'm just glad I can do a basic frogkick, and I didn't shame myself too much by kicking up a storm cloud of silt!!!!

Anyway, enough of that... just wanted to share my experience diving with my DIR friends for the first time (they normally do cave and wreck dives, so I can't really tag along) I feel like such a stroke! hahahaha!

[detroit diver]

John,

It will come after you take the class and practice. There are techniques taught during the class that instructors can adjust for you. Your buddies may just be missing something small.

Dive safe,

Jack

jplacson once bubbled...
Hmm... dunno if I should revive this thread... anyway... Seajay, I'm planning to take the DIR-F course here in the Philippines next year... I was told that the GUE group (JJ, GI and most everyone) comes here once a year to my friend's resort. My friends are all GUE and probably the best (cave) divers here in the Philippines as well... and they've been telling me to take the course.

I have to start saving up for it now... sheesh... after all the gear I just got from Halcyon... I'm broke!!!!

Anyway, today was my first dive in relatively strong (and shifting) currents. I was amazed at how my friends could still hover motionless without finning (no, they weren't close to the ground... I was right below them... HUGGING THE SAND!!!! )

Once back on the surface, I asked how they did it.. they were explaining about vacuum spots behind rocks, and how to predict them. I thought that was cool. I actually tried doing it beside them... but I still can't stay as horizontal as I should, so I had to fin a bit more than they did.

They also took me through a very small sunken boat... now don't freak, exit was in clear view, and it was pretty easy to fin through it... they said it was more of an overhead environment than a wreck since you could see your exit point from the entrance.

Well, it was still fun for me. hahaha.

They were trying to help me with my horizontal position... but I really couldn't get it. My feet still sink. The more I arch my back, the more I seem to roll head up. I think my trim weighting is all wrong... anyway, I'll practise it more. And if I try to dip my head, I slowly roll head down (until I'm upside-down! hahaha) ... they're not THAT off... I can hold a horizontal plane for quite a while... my roll is quite slow, and I can actually stay horizontal if I twitch my ankles, and dip my head from time to time... but I can't NOT move, and still stay horizontal.... grrrrrrrrr.....

But swimming through that little boat made me realize how valuable perfect buoyancy & alternate finning techniques are in a REAL wreck or cave. I'm just glad I can do a basic frogkick, and I didn't shame myself too much by kicking up a storm cloud of silt!!!!

Anyway, enough of that... just wanted to share my experience diving with my DIR friends for the first time (they normally do cave and wreck dives, so I can't really tag along) I feel like such a stroke! hahahaha!

[jplacson]

Ya, I know... they're all still in training for the GUE instructor license. I just asked them for their 2 cents worth, and some pointers...as much as they could help anyway.

I'm also a sinker... I dive with an AL plate, and 2# on my tank strap (actually I only wear the 2# cuz I don't 'feel' safe without it) ... I use a Henderson Black Maxx fleece suit (thinking of switching to a Mares Samoa 1.5mm)

So I'm guessing that most people would have buoyant legs due to their exposure suit, and I don't, since the minimal buoyancy that the Black Maxx has is centered around the chest area (the Maxx has a 0.5mm chest area) ...so I'm guessing my trim is different since my legs have zero buoyancy... I'm currently using Volos which are more buoyant than Jets (which I will have to switch to once I take the DIR-F class)

Anyway, it's actually just a minor trim issue... but annoying. But I am happy to know that even my friends say that I don't have any inherent bad habits found on more experienced divers.

[diveski01]

jplacson once bubbled...
I'm also a sinker... I dive with an AL plate, and 2# on my tank strap (actually I only wear the 2# cuz I don't 'feel' safe without it) ... I use a Henderson Black Maxx fleece suit (thinking of switching to a Mares Samoa 1.5mm)

I was convinced that I needed lots of weight higher up since I "couldn't" get horizontal because of my upper body "was more bouyant due to trapped air in drysuit, that's just how I am, ....".

I FINALLY started moving my trim weights lower and lower and guess what?!?!? My trim improved dramatically!

Basically, my head-up position was a result of overcompensating for having too much weight too high. Try to move your weight to your belt and see if it doesn't help your horizontal trim.

Lesson Learned: If you don't immediately agree with your instructor, try it their way anyway just to see if they might actually be right I wasted nearly a year doing it my way, and they were dead-on correct the whole time!

[Ryukyu-diver]

SeaJay,
I have just about read this in its entirity and I have a few concerns. I am in no way taking sides in any of the what's DIR what's not DIR, what percent someone is or isn't DIR, computers etc. but for 1) where did PADI come in on this? I am not on anyones's side on this but, this is the problem that comes up when trying to carry on a conversation with all of the DIR divers I have been around. There is no way to compare the two until DIR begains it's OW certification program. You see, I have been with a lot of students in the performance of DM'ing and much perfer the Advance certification vice the OW ones. PADI never gives the OK for solo diving and as far as I know SDI is the only one certifing Solo divers. This like instead of comparing Marine Corps Boot Camp to Navy Boot Camp you compare Marine Corps Boot Camp to SEAL training. 2) You seem to put down PADI but, even you admitted that you couldn't control your buoyancy. When was the last time you pratice skills that you were taught or did you give something like the Peak Performance Buoyancy a chance. The point that I am trying to make is like myself, I went to TDI for advance training but I don't bad mouth PADI for the manner in which they teach OW. I take from each of them, to include SDI, what is good and search on for better ways of doing things. I really like what DIR / GUE have to offer but another question is, What about the rest of your dive club that isn't DIR certified? You no longer dive with them until they all take the same course as you? That in itself is one reason that I am not DIR. I enjoy diving way too much to limit myself to only divers certified by the same ones that certified me.

[SeaJay]

Ryukyu-diver once bubbled...
SeaJay,
1) where did PADI come in on this?

Sorry, I don't understand your question. PADI is the agency that certified me for OW, AOW, and Rescue. I've gotten all of my other training from other sources. I support PADI and it's programs like I would support Driver's Ed for teenagers.

Perhaps that answers your question... If not, can you clarify?

I am not on anyones's side on this but, this is the problem that comes up when trying to carry on a conversation with all of the DIR divers I have been around.

What's been your experience with DIR divers?

2) You seem to put down PADI but, even you admitted that you couldn't control your buoyancy.

I'm not sure where that came from... Basically, according to my PADI instructors and the PADI-certified DM's that I was diving with at the time, my buoyancy was very good.

That "very good" was "inadequate" in terms of DIR-F. They're really completely different animals.

Regardless, you point out that "I seemed to put down PADI." I'm not sure where you got that from... Can you show me what you're referencing?

When was the last time you pratice skills that you were taught

Every time I get in the water I go through a variety of drills. I did that before my DIR course... But really liked the fact that DIR actually taught that and actually had a recommended set of "drills." Seems that we were on the same page there.

or did you give something like the Peak Performance Buoyancy a chance.

No, I've never taken a Peak Performance Buoyancy class. It may be just as effective as DIR-F; I couldn't tell you. My humble observation is that I had never seen anyone swim quite like what was demonstrated by MHK and AndrewG... "Peak Performance" or not. So I have my doubts that anything would be quite like DIR-F. But that's simply a speculation - I have never taken "Peak Performance."

DIR-F wasn't only about buoyancy, though... There was a lot going on there. You sure you read "the whole thing?"

And The point that I am trying to make is like myself, I went to TDI for advance training but I don't bad mouth PADI for the manner in which they teach OW. I take from each of them, to include SDI, what is good and search on for better ways of doing things.

I completely agree. I'm not sure what you're referencing when you say that I "bad mouthed" PADI...

I really like what DIR / GUE have to offer but another question is, What about the rest of your dive club that isn't DIR certified? You no longer dive with them until they all take the same course as you?

No, I dive with the people I feel are safe. None of the the people in my immediate group are DIR certified, but I still dive with most of them.

The people I won't dive with are those that I feel have an unsafe attitude. So far, though, that's been only a handful of people, and frankly, I have seen some interesting recent developments in that group that may change my mind. They seem to be dropping the attitude a bit... Which I really think would be a great thing, seeing as there's a couple of people in there that I really like being friends with. I would love to dive with them. If they end up comfortable with me... And I, them... Well... That's great. But it wasn't happening that way before.

To the best of my knowledge, GUE has never said, "Don't dive with others who aren't DIR." That's a rumor that was started when someone said something to the effect of, "Don't dive with people who have unsafe attitudes." Apparently, those people who had not taken DIR-F felt that THEY were the ones being referenced... Which wasn't the case. Perhaps these people felt that they had "unsafe attitudes?"

That in itself is one reason that I am not DIR. I enjoy diving way too much to limit myself to only divers certified by the same ones that certified me.

Cool. DIR isn't for everyone. Perhaps it isn't for you.

[GQMedic]

Ryukyu-diver,

Ok, I went through ALL of the posts (again) with ALOT of eye strain, tea and patience and I just don't see what you're getting at.

SeaJay comments about his buoyancy in a DIR regard, that is clearly visible in his post on that segment/day of his DIR-F class.

You make the comment/question but more like a statement that SeaJay asserts "You no longer dive with them until they all take the same course as you? " (Quoted) Sorry, I just don't see it, I don't think I've ever seen SeaJay make such a comment here on
SB.

You further the above by saying: "That in itself is one reason that I am not DIR."

Ok, I'm lost... Combined with what I said above, it didn't happen, so, I'm left with this, are you trying to find reasons to not go DIR? You don't NEED a reason to not go DIR, just a decision, it's that easy. Where is this going?

You also assert: "I enjoy diving way too much to limit myself to only divers certified by the same ones that certified me."

Great, keep diving! I don't think that argument's been made by SeaJay or any other of the DIR divers here. (Also note, I am not a DIR diver nor do I play one on TV)

SeaJay PADI bashing? Ummm... Where? You soo don't know SeaJay (or DIR)

SeaJay a DIR Elitest? No way. Hey SeaJay, I ain't DIR, will ya dive with me? (I already think I know the answer)

In the end, you missed the WHOLE point... SeaJay shared with everyone on SB his trek the first time around in his DIR-F class, including his feelings, thoughts, and demons. I found it rather cool and USEFUL.

Ok, You're new here, great! Welcome to SB. You'll be better served by reading MORE and MORE and MORE, yes, even about SeaJay's treks through the diving world (He writes BOOKS on here, he never has very LITTLE to say, the man loves to write).

In the end, I have to ask, where were you going with this or were you just trying to kick SeaJay in the shins? If not, cool, reword and repost your post, because the message was lost.

As far as DIR, as I mentioned, I'm not DIR (certified), BUT..... Yup, I bought the book, Read it, implimented much of it as it applies to me, Yup, I found DIR to be much of what I am looking for (DIR guys, Shush, I'll quit smoking and cash in my split fins when I feel like it...) and think all divers can benefit from it. So, what's your REAL beef? While you are going on about it, have you even read DIR-F yet?

[VTernovski]

Ryukyu-diver once bubbled...
You seem to put down PADI but, even you admitted that you couldn't control your buoyancy. When was the last time you pratice skills that you were taught or did you give something like the Peak Performance Buoyancy a chance. The point that I am trying to make is like myself, I went to TDI for advance training but I don't bad mouth PADI for the manner in which they teach OW.

Sorry if I m stirring something up here... I think this topic has been beaten to death already on some other threads, but this is just my opinion only.. I haven't taken the DIR-F class yet (will be doing so next week, however!) But strictly percentage wise, PADI releases a lot more unqualified Instructors, and GUE does not, in comparison; that is not to say that PADI has bad instructors, but I have seen a lot of less desirable ones with their PADI black cards; Statistically speaking, compare how many instructors does GUE has and how many does PADI has... On the next thought, like I said, I have been disappointed by a good share of PADI instructors and I specifically am disappointed in PADI in their way of teaching the Dry Suit specialty course. I am also disappointed in their money making program that required you to take Deep Divers specialty (which is a NDL dive to usually 80-100 feet) before you can take their RecTec. I am disappointed with a lot of their Specialty courses… “ohhh, Let’s have a Discussion Specialty!”
That’s why I will not consider any further education courses through PADI. I am sorry. Once again, no disrespect to PADI or their instructors, this is just my opinions and you don’t have to agree with me in any way or form.