Welcome to ScubaBoard, an online scuba diving forum community where you can join over 100,000 divers from around the world discussing all things related to Scuba Diving. To gain full access to ScubaBoard you must register for a free account.
As a registered member you will be able to:
Participate in over 500 dive topic forums and browse from over 3,000,000 posts.
Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
Post your own photos or view from 80,000 user submitted images.
Gain access to our free classifieds marketplace to buy, sell and trade gear, travel and services.
Use the calendar to organize your events and enroll in other members' events.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact the ScubaBoard Support Team.
Basic Scuba DiscussionsHave a Scuba related question? Get a Scuba related answer here. Please note: This forum has special rules. This forum is intended to be a very friendly, "flame free zone" where divers of any skill level may ask questions about basic scuba topics without fear of being accosted. Please show respect and courtesy at all times. Remember that the inquirer is looking for answers that they can understand. This is a learning zone and consequently, any off-topic or overly harsh responses will be removed.
I am staring at a dozen computer screens right now, forced to make a living at trading because there is a glut of hopefuls for my chosen career, swimsuit model photography. I am a pretty good photographer and willing to work for practically nothing because I enjoy photographing semi-nude female models so much. It's much more pleasant than analyzing numbers and assessing risk. Alas, there is little demand for swimsuit model photographers, and dozens of people more skilled than I am are waiting to fill any niches that arise.
Training to become a trader entailed tedious courses in mathematics and economics that a lot of people preferred not to take or were not very good at. Training to become a swimsuit model photographer entails taking a lot of pictures--something many people happily do as a hobby. Go figure.
Last edited by vladimir; January 8th, 2009 at 03:59 AM..
Reason: grammar, clarity, style
I think if you want to make a living out of instructing or a DM you should go for it, i have and thoroughly love it... But... don't let your passion for diving be lost in the working world of diving, if it becomes a chore go back to having fun dives...
This member has said "Thank you." to tharris for this useful post:
I am just a beginner in scuba however business is business in any industry. Instructors are generally employees witch means WORK and a pay check. I think where many new people get confused is Dive Operations Owner.
From what I see there are two types of scuba operations first the travel side "liveaboards" and the 2nd is LDS
Lets look at the first the DM, INST. all employees making a paycheck as travel guid just like hotel desk clerks or bellhops at the air port. All the real money goes to the Owners not employees just like every other job/business I know of.
The second our buddies at the LDS this is another store just like martial arts studios or dance schools Instructors are Employees just making a paycheck teaching something they love are used to love. Just depend on the person. The Instructors here seem to like the job but not so much the business side ( Tax, Insurance lease on store front ect. ect.) most just like to dive and enjoy the life style.
My point to this is Rec. Instructors however much we love them and need them. Instructors still fall under a hobby not a business where the students can walk away with more knowledge and make more money for there families.
I am sure I will get flamed by someone but after being self employed for over 25 years these are the fact as I see them.
It's hard work and no time to stop! My business is just a year old as of today! Started from zero. Now I'm at the point where I'd like a partner to buy in to help me with the work load. However, the really nice thing about this stage, is that it's all hands on. I get to interact and dive with my customers. Quality is all in my own hands, foul ups usually occur from other agencies. All that costs time and effort to earn every bit of money. Worth it? For now I can't see a let up, but I love the work.
I am a recently qualified Rescue diver with about 155 dives to date. I have just returned from a 3 week dive trip on Koh Lipe which i absolutely loved. In fact it was supposed to be a holiday rather than dive trip but i just couldnt help spending everyday on the boat diving. when i wasnt on the boat (3 odd days) i was so bored and just thinking about the diving everyone else was doing. There was no other fun divers who dived as much as i did and i got to know the dive crew really well. On most dives, once the other divers used up their air, i would wait for them to go up before me and the DM/Instructor would carry on for another 30mins, it was fantastic. I would also help out with other fun divers if i noticed they need it and also encouraged additional courses when chatting to the other divers on the boat. This just came naturally to me and needless to say i was asked to do the DMT.
Unfortunately i had to return home to my job as i need funds, but if i figure if i do the DMT then i may as well do the IDC too. I have already brought the DM books and plan to do the theory here in the UK and then head to Thailand in March to do the practical, do some DM'ing for a while and then do the IDC in May.
My point of this post is this though; that after my experience on the boat in Koh Lipe i felt i had found my calling so to speak, working and helping on the boat came naturally and i love to talk and help people. I also love asia and go as often as i can. I hate the UK, the cold weather, the rat race, the materialistic way of life, dark nights in front of rubbish TV etc etc. i feel like my life is wasting away making someone else rich. Yes i have a very good job (IT Manager) and nice house in a sought after area, good car etc etc but is it enough to give it all up to go diving? (and i literally would have to give it all up for free)
I have read many posts on this forum today about being a dive instructor and it all seems so negative. Is this just a pipe dream i have that i would come to regret, if i gave up EVERYTHING to be an instructor? would it be something that would last me 2 years and then i would return home with my tail between my legs, thousands of pounds poorer with no home? I would really hope to think not, but the forum has raised a lot of questions and doubts in my mind.
If there is anyone out there who could give some sound advice, that would help me with my big decision, i would greatly appreciate it.
DM is basically slave labour. Expect 12-14hr days, 7 days a week and lots of the **** duties as well. You'll also find lots of places dont hire DMs to guide - they only employ instuctors as they're more versatile.
As there are tens of thousands of instructors and a few hundred more each week there is no competition to get one and as such wages are low. Subsistence wage if you're really lucky in the area you choose to work.
Also in lots of places as an instructor also expect to work 12+ hours a day and 7 days a week for months on end without a break, especially the busier resorts. If you don't they'll replace you with a newly qualified that will. Turnover of staff is HUGE.
If you have some savings and fancy a year or 2 break somewhere by all means do it. Anything else though just be prepared to accept being poor, possibly needing a 2nd job just to pay bills and having no real free time. Oh, and no job security.
You really dont get to see what the job involves from being a customer. Most instructors last 2 years or less (official figures) for very good reasons.
__________________
Anyone taking offence at anything in my posts - tough. It's only an internet forum. Stop being over-sensitive. The real world isn't as warm and fuzzy.
Remember, underwater only YOU are responsible for YOUR own safety. Nobody else is. http://www.hvsac.co.uk <-- dive club http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitcomberd/ <-- Photos
Yeah I do understand that it is a lot different being a customer to actually working in the dive centres. Obviously i got the easy side of things, it just seemed to me a much better way of spending life rather than sat at a desk 10 hours a day, being kept busy doing pointless tasks.
Just remember that the "idea" of working in the industry is very different from actually
"working" in the industry.
When we idealize something we tend to over-minimize the actual dirty side of things. I think that those who do well don't romantisize (real word?) the job. They go in with eyes open and take the bad with the good.
Me? I did it while looking to return to the corporate world. But I can tell you that it practically broke my diving. Before teaching and working in the shop full time I dove over 100 times a year. While in the shop, I averaged less than 20 per year, and only taught 3 IDCs in 2 years and could only teach classes that were in-shop only or a one-day that I could do on Sunday.
Since most classes ran over a weekend, I couldn't teach them. As the shop manager I was in the shop EVERY Saturday. These are some of the realities you'll face. If your shop is different, the details may be different, but I would guess that most instructors working for a shop will tell similar stories.
Please understand that these aren'tt complaints but realities.
Good luck. In the end it is only up to you. As Henry Ford said "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right." (I'm sure that this is a paraphrase).
__________________
- Steve; Major, US Army (Ret); PADI Course Director; developing tech diver
A combination of knowledge, training, and experience is required to fully develop yourself. Knowledge and training are nearly useless if you don't have the experience to apply context. Experience without understanding and awareness is a lost opportunity.
.
It is possible, it is just unlikely. The average life of a new instructor in the field is a bit over two years. That flow through assures that wages stay low and that benefits are nonexistent. There are a few that find a way to carve out a niche for themselves and to do better, very few. Can you think of a single person here on ScubaBoard who has gone off and become an instructor and done nothing other than teach diving while they married, had kids, paid for the orthodontist and the kid's college and retired in any sort of comfort at all?
How many can you name who lasted more than 5 years as full time dive instructors? Not very many.
No, but I CAN name quite a few folks that have done so in the DIVE Industry. Lets be honest here for a few minutes. I get so sick of the "can't make a living" comments.
A instructor rating (and a DM rating is NOTHING except a stop on the way to being a instructor when it come to making a living, from a personal enrichment view it is something...just not from a professional POV)) is like a high school diploma, bare min. entry level stuff. Keep on going to IT,CD, Tech Instr, and you are starting to be worth more $10 hour if you plan on working for somebody. Then get a course in mechanics, boat handling and a few certs and now you are worth $12 an hour. Stick with it on the boat and develop all those skills and a following of people that return EVERY year or MORE just to dive with you and all of a sudden you are worth $40-50 K a year, being on the boat diving 3-5 times a day for 6 days a week. That takes 5 years. (funny it take 5 years in almost any profession to make a living wage at it...)
The average of LESS than 2 years as a dive instructor is because the MAJORITY who try this are looking to drop out, not work and get paid. Funny how that doesn't seem to last, being poor (or more often fired a few times) gets old and instead of figuring out how to make money they change "careers" again to escape reality. Pay your dues and have a clue basically.
Plus there are many jobs in this industry where you get to be an Instructor when you want to but also make a living in an industry that you love (and also hate)
My feeling is that the majority who say "can't make a living" haven't tried or failed at it. Find somebody who says you can and has and adopt them as a mentor, once you do that welcome to my world.
__________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell
Given that our biggest fear, death, is inescapable, doesn’t it seem ridiculous to let our smaller fears dictate how we live our too short lives? -Me
HOG GEAR- Redefining the term "Dives Like a PIG"
These 2 members have said "Thank you." to cerich for this useful post:
Thanks, you're right, it easy to see the shiney side of it all and ignore the actual real hard work that is involved and daily struggles to keep afloat, and like all jobs, it is a job at the end of the day.
i suppose the way i look at is this; i work really hard now for 1 dive holiday a year and this is what keeps me going. the rest of the time i am bored, cold and stressed out, wondering why we do what we do day in and day out. I'd rather be somewhere tropical, working hard and complaining than here. it's funny, i am asking for this advice but whatever the answer, i am still convincing myself the diver life is the better option. I wonder what i would be saying if i was in your shoes? lol!
Not sure who said this but a quote that springs to mind "try it, you might just like it". Or it could be from a TV ad for butter or something lol!
)
Linear Mode
