Define 'open water'

[HarleyDiver]

I have seen people taking their "open water" certification dives at Ginnie Springs Fl. (students are NOT allowed in the cave).
So they can dive to 18 feet in a hole less than 20 feet wide.

I know another LDS that offers AOW classes in a 60 foot deep sink hole.

IMHO this is not "open" water, this is "confined" water.

Does this bother anyone else?

How would you define "open water" ?

 

[caliscuba]

Well...I usually think of open water as being something like the ocean (just because I live near the ocean). However, if you live in the middle of the US, you can't go to any real "open" water spots to take your OW. So...I guess I would consider open water to be a water area at least 1 mile x 1 mile. However, I would like to hear other's opinions.

Patrick

 

[double125's]

In San Antonio most of the dive shops will certify you in a river that is 12' deep. The training agencies dont want you to dive deeper than you dove in a training environment, so yes I would say this is a problem. Not to mention the other more obvious reasons that this could pose a problem

 

[double125's]

Here is the link to a guy who shares the same opinion as us.
http://duggandiving.com/training/standards.htm

 

[jtivat]

I would consider it to be free of over head obstacles but what you described is pushing it a little. Being that small and shallow it would be hard to learn many needed skills.

 

[kkrepps]

When we were teaching in Belize we used a nice sandy spot at about 25-30 feet. Good depth for the OW skills. The spot was 40 minutes by boat from the mainland and about a half mile from the nearest caye. I think that qualifies as open water. It was a short swim to the wall so on the tour for OW 3 or 4 we could take them to the edge of the reef and get them down to 60 feet under good supervision. We did have the advantage that we usually had only 1 to 3 students at a time. We often got guests from the US that had done OWs in a small lake or quarry and even this spot felt a little overwhelming to some of them

 

[wreckchick]

I know a couple guys that certified in Hawaii and their "confined water" was a sheltered cove in the ocean.

I'm interested to see how this thread develops...

Rachel

 

[Grajan]

As someone who has always lived near the coast I am utterly astonished that OW certs are being given out to people who have only ever dived in very small puddles.

The list of things you cannot possibly learn in that environment is too long to even think about including here. The idea that someone can technically (however stupidly) go directly from a 12' river to Palancar Reef is chilling.

I am a pilot as well as a diver and the comparison is telling.

Both activities are extremely unforgiving of ignorance, both allow you to put others at serious risk by your mistakes. There the parallels end.

There is NO way in flying that you will be certified to operate in an environment that you have not been thoroughly tested in. The training is gruelling and the examiner has no commercial interest in your passing or failing. There is no such thing as the inherent right to fly - If you cannot cut it you will not be doing it.

It seems to me that the enormous conflict of interest inherent in the current system of diver education makes it impossible for dive shops (who want, no - NEED, to sell you gear and send you on trips etc.) to reasonably be expected to make objective decisions about standards - however well-meaning. The same applies to 'self regulatory' agencies.

I think that the only real way to improve standards would be federal regulation (this is going to be popular :hiding: ).

This was the case when I learned to dive in France, CMAS administered by the local police / rescue agencies and federal examiners. This forced diving educators to consistent high standards, with no incentive to cut corners. It may not sound nice but it sure works.

At the moment diving appears to be a system with no checks and balances. So - the question is - for all the talk - just how committed to diver safety is the diving commmunity?

 

[wreckchick]

Well, there's a world of difference between pretty warm water diving and shallow midwestern mudpuddles. In some cases I would say that people trained in the ocean better watch themselves if they come here. The visibility is crap and it's cold which necessitates way more gear, and some serious complications in case a mask gets knocked off, for example.

I consider the diving to be more challenging in the local mudholes that in the warm, clear, blue of the ocean. I'm sure there will be differing opinions on this, we don't deal with current and tides.

R

 

[Grajan]

learning in the blue waters of Coz may well not equip you to dive in 'mudholes' - you should do more training.

This reinforces my point that training needs to be, in so far as is possible, appropriate for the requirements of the environment you are going to dive in.

Way too many divers are managing to get killed in 'pretty warm water diving'.