Physical contact between male instructor female student

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Lawman

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Gym teachers are always getting in trouble for touching students. How much contact is acceptable?
 
First, I assuming you are talking about Gym teachers in High School and below who may be touching minors. In any and all cases, touching a minor is recipe for disaster, however, there are situations when you will need do it for safety reasons....which with witnesses should be a reasonable defense in the unlikely event things get misconstrued.

With adults, its a little less risky, but I follow the same basic premise. I try to minimize touching unless it becomes a safety issue. The most challenging time comes when we do CESA. I was taught and perform a CESA with the students BC shoulder harness in my left hand along with the float rope. Should their be an ascent issue, I can squeeze down and stop the ascent while having my right hand available. When working with females, especially full figured females, I first tell them what the plan is and I carefully locate a position on the shoulder strap that is as least likely to be misinterpreted as possible....sometimes, there is a D-Ring convenient and I lock my fingers throught that.

In summary, I minimize touching....if its planned, I forewarn them and make sure they are comfortable with that, and if its an emergency, I do what I need to do to insure safety and let any touching issues be addressed afterwards.

Otter
 
Here is what has worked for me.

I keep my hands to myself as much as possible. However as mentioned above there are times when that isn't possible. We have to help people on with their equipment, support them phisically in any one of a number of situations and conduct skills like ESA where we are required to have phisical contact.

I try to explain what I am going to do and why and if I touch in a spur of the moment situation for control reasons it's usually obvious and I explain afterward.

We don't flirt or joke in questionable tast either. When things are done professionally there is seldom a problem.

There are little techmiques I use to intentionally let people know that I am trying not to touch like if helping a person put on a bs I might get hold of the wast belt and hold it out where they can get it rather that wrapping is around their wast for them. I'll do the same with a shoulder strap. Those little things help avoid accidental contact with sesetive areas.

Aside from that we are diving and I am the instructor which means that some contact is unavoidable. I try to me respectful and professional and they need to be sensible also or it won't work.

I did have a DM candidate who had a hard time not paying attractive females undo attention. He didn't know the difference between appropriate and inappropriate humor and conversation and didn't hesitate to make contact where he could. Needless to say we streightened that out pretty fast.

Sometimes it's a little funny. I have often had a yong couple in a class and the guy looking cross-eyed everytime some one got too close to his swim suit clad girl.

One additional comment...I use the same care wether the student is male or female. Also if I was working with young children I would avoid having any staff member alone with them.
 
I have actually recommended that the owner of my LDS write a letter to PADI to make it manditory that students sign a incidental contact form. Sykdiving instructors have forms like this. This way, the instructors and LDS's are protected from people who may take instructor-student contact the wrong way.
 
That is excellent advice MikeFerrara and Otter. I am in DM training right now and my Instructor/LDS owner preaches your policy all the time. The LDS staff also follows the policy you described.

I have seen some OW students push the boundaries more than anyone in an instructor role.

Instructor or any other leadership role should be on their toes and not allow themselves to be put in a compromising position.

I think a student also has a responsibility to speak up if they feel something was inappropriate.
 
It is unfortunate that this has become such an issue but with both sides of the carrying it to extremes we must all be careful. I usually can tell which people I can make jokes and cut up with and when it will be a strictly facts only class. Touching the ladies? I will not touch them in any way that that I would not touch another guy, period. So far I haven't had any complaints or problems. As for the minors? Always have an adult close enough by so that there won't be any question about any problems.
 
to MikeF's comments about minors. In Scouting, we have a rule that says all interaction with minors must be in full view and needs to have at least two adults present. I think this would be useful in all situations where minors are present.

Otter
 
My personal biggest issue with incidental contact is getting females and children into two piece wetsuits that aren't cut for them. I know of more than one case where an instructor/parent AND myself had to each lift up on a shoulder of a wetsuit and literally lift a child or small female up by the wetsuit. (LOL, we sell more Hyperstrech that way.) To explain, on the last pool session we have the students briefly put on the two piece wetsuits to get an idea of their weighting BEFORE OW. It saves a bunch of time when we get to OW.

Bless you for not leaving DM's alone with children. I had one class where we had an oversensitive little boy who was way too small for most of our cold water wetsuits. The boy and his buddy were slow about getting to class and the instructor had me help them into their wetsuits. The parents weren't there, but when I took the parents into the backroom to show them the risk awareness video for OW, I politely asked them to be there to watch their kids for OW (I said it far more tactfully, but it is what I wanted to say. This is the first class that I have been involved in where the parents didn't stay by the pool for children that young.)

If it is required to have contact that may seem "risky", I tell them what is going on and why. I also try to have an instructor present so that if the accusations fly, I have a witness. Most small females are at least 13-14 and have an understanding of what I have to do. Also, I avoid any comments that are unprofessional while I do what I have to do or even afterwards. IMO, this is still a big issue, but if handled professionally, it is far from an insurmontable problem.
 
Child abuse awareness came to everyone's attention when in 1996 Julie and Melissa (one Belgian, the other half Italian, both 8) were literally left to starve after several months of abuse and segregation.

Marc Dutroux, their abductor, had put them in an earth pit in his back garden which eventually became their grave until they were finally found, only bones were left and DNA was needed for positive identification.

Seven years later it is not unusual to still see their photos on car windscreens or house windows.

A huge march was organised when the bodies were found, I think attendance was around 2 million (Brussels only has 1.5 people including the suburbs).

This happened in Marcinelle, a suburb of Charleroi, in Southern Belgium, a region known for its poverty when mines were still active (basically up until late 1960's) and partly today, and nowadays for diving (some of the nicest quarries are there).

It was the first time Europe woke up to horrors.

So you can imagine families around here are more than a little attentive to such issues.

While doing my Assistant Instructor course with an IDC Staff Instructor who likes to work with children and who used to run a children's diving club, he told us he is more than a little careful with what he does, and I think that's the best way to act.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...

We don't flirt or joke in questionable tast either. When things are done professionally there is seldom a problem.

As a female, I don't have a problem at all with the "incidental contact" that is not uncommon in my job (Firefighter) or recreation (namely - SCUBA). I think if a person is working or playing in situations where you and your partner/buddy are so uncomfortable with each other as to be offended by touching in the course of the activity, maybe a different buddy should be found or the person shouldn't be doing the activity? Like Mike said - keep it professional, I'll add that if an instructor or DM can't do that, maybe s/he should grow up a little before assuming that role.
 
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