When is it appropriate to take items from the water?

[GlockDiver]

I've read a lot about rare and unusual things people have found while scuba diving. I've also seen some people's collections of things they have found while diving. However, I have also read that it is disrespectful to take things from the sea as that ruins things for future divers?

It would seem very disrespectful to take something from a wreck, partciularly one where people died. So, is there ever a time when it is morally acceptable to take things from the water? If so, when?

[scubasean]

Well, you are going to have many answers to that question, since there is a range of views in the world as to what is and is not morally acceptable.

Also, part of the decision as to what can be taken and when is based on what you are taking...

A growing piece of coral taken for your mantle would elicit one kind of reaction, while taking the gold coins from a sunken spanish galleon would likely elicit others.

"Take nothing and leave nothing more than bubbles" is the mantra of many....

[diverbrian]

On a wreck in fresh water.... NEARLY NEVER. If I catch a diver with a wreck artifact from a Great Lakes wreck inside a preserve, I may give him/ her a chance to put it back. More than likely, I would turn him/her into the cops and give him a chance to explain his felony to them. Most divers up here tend to share that philosophy. We like our wrecks up here. You dive them, you darn well better respect them and leave them the way that you found them. I, only my opinion, do make exceptions in my mind for some artifacts that are intended for display at a museum as long as this is kept to a minimum.

On a salt water wreck.... the rules are a little different for the reasons of corrosion. Sometimes, it is ethical to "collect artifacts" as most of the wrecks will be in bad shape in a short time. The wreck divers on the East Coast regularly collect artifacts, and due to the corrosion issues, most people that I know of have no ethical problems with that.

On the bottom of your local lake.... this fun time, take a goodie bag and clean it up! I have collected anchors, cans, you name it...
This stuff is litter anyways. There are some cabin cruisers, jeeps, etc. that you would need to do major commercial work to lift, but aside from that have full rights to take whatever you find within common sense. For instance, if I found dive gear, I might make *some* attempt to discern the owner prior to keeping it. A wedding ring or other valuable, I would make a serious attempt to find an owner, including newspaper ads for a couple of weeks if necessary.

In other words, use your common sense and have fun. Just leave the other divers with the ability to do the same and do your best to PRESERVE OUR WRECKS!

[scubasean]

diverbrian once bubbled...
On a wreck in fresh water.... NEARLY NEVER. If I catch a diver with a wreck artifact from a Great Lakes wreck inside a preserve, I may give him/ her a chance to put it back. More than likely, I would turn him/her into the cops and give him a chance to explain his felony to them. Most divers up here tend to share that philosophy. We like our wrecks up here. You dive them, you darn well better respect them and leave them the way that you found them. I, only my opinion, do make exceptions in my mind for some artifacts that are intended for display at a museum as long as this is kept to a minimum.

I had at least thought the question implied..."Within the bounds of the law...."....

I agree that everyone should follow the law.

It is the moral answer that will be diverse as to the lines to be drawn, and the reasons behind the lines.

[diverbrian]

So true on the moral issues, I am a photographer. My motto is to take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but bubbles (and hopefully, they go to the surface). I have many beautiful pictures of coral and fish down in the Caribbean that I have taken myself and plan to do the same with some wrecks this year.

Obviously, you are cleaning up the bottom when it is a local lake/body of water where the things weren't left down there specifically for fish habitat and/or divers to look at. So you are still being conservation minded by recovering that stuff.

By the way, what about these breeding GOLF FISH, I find their "eggs" everywhere, but I never see one?

[DJ69]

Things I take:
Fishing rod's weight's and hooks. Including "Rapala's"
Plastic bags, beer bootles and can's.
All in all - garbage

The only thing I'v taken off a wreck was a door handle.
The wreck was sanken as a memorial and a diveing site, and as the main divemaster to take people to the site, I'v eliminated the option of opening the doors and penetrating inside.

[roturner]

GlockDiver once bubbled...
I've read a lot about rare and unusual things people have found while scuba diving. I've also seen some people's collections of things they have found while diving. However, I have also read that it is disrespectful to take things from the sea as that ruins things for future divers?

It would seem very disrespectful to take something from a wreck, partciularly one where people died. So, is there ever a time when it is morally acceptable to take things from the water? If so, when?

There are two parts to this. Legally speaking you're allowed to take things when a wreck is "derelict" and has no owner. If it has an owner then you need permission to remove items from the wreck. In some areas (like in Canadian waters) all wrecks have owners becuase derelicts default ownership to the government.

Some people say that there is nothing immoral about picking up "junk", which is what a derelict wreck basically is.

Others argue that wrecks should be left alone so other divers can enjoy it. This is a personal judgement call. I personally don't take things from wrecks but I don't object to the practice.

Some people may argue that a wreck is a gravesite. According to what I could find about that on the internet, only war wrecks are officially recognised as gravesites and therefore have some legal protection. Other wrecks containing bodies are not gravesites because as far as I know the law (at least in the U.S.) says that a body has to be deliberately placed in a grave, which by a shipwreck is not the case. Removing objects from such a wreck is, therefore, ok if it's derelict, but you shouldn't remove bodies or body parts unless you're working it as an archeologist.

R..

[wreckchick]

See, here's the dilemma, I'm a dirt archaeologist and I almost passed out when I was sold a dive trip based on "people still finding stuff" on the wreck. Personally the collection of artifacts appalls me on any level except by those that are willing to do so in a responsible manner and to me that means recording the location of the artifact, how it relates to other aspects of the wreck, done any analysis of the object once it's recovered and curated it in a responsible manner.

I have a very strong opinion on this for the simple fact that I've seen how the disturbance of a site can completely alter or obliterate all knowlege that could have been gained from proper excavation techniques. I use different techniques than maritime archaeologists, but the theory is the same.

My $1.50

Rachel

[roturner]

biscuit7 once bubbled...
See, here's the dilemma, I'm a dirt archaeologist and I almost passed out when I was sold a dive trip based on "people still finding stuff" on the wreck. Personally the collection of artifacts appalls me on any level except by those that are willing to do so in a responsible manner and to me that means recording the location of the artifact, how it relates to other aspects of the wreck, done any analysis of the object once it's recovered and curated it in a responsible manner.

I have a very strong opinion on this for the simple fact that I've seen how the disturbance of a site can completely alter or obliterate all knowlege that could have been gained from proper excavation techniques. I use different techniques than maritime archaeologists, but the theory is the same.

My $1.50

Rachel

Surely there are a lot of wrecks out there from which nothing of value can be learned.

R..