DIR-F Report - Sault Ste. Marie CANADA

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ScubaScott

Guest
Messages
560
Reaction score
0
Location
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
# of dives
500 - 999
I know there are probably about 100 DIRF reports somewhere on SB, however, since I rarely get to report about these great trips that I don't go on, I thought we'll throw one more DIRF report out there for those who may not have heard or experienced it yet.....

June 27,28,29 we were lucky to obtain Mr. Dan Mackay, of GUE and NTD. Along with Dan, was his right hand man and cameraman Tom, whose skill at capturing us at our worst moments while diving, is probably unmatched. Dedicated? You bet - these guys drove 10 hours to come to us, way up in Northern Ontario and put on a weekend that was literally crammed with SCUBA knowledge and know-how, and made the drive back in the middle of the night to fulfill shop obligations first thing Monday morning.

Since I've read a bunch of DIRF reports, they pretty much stick to the same schedule for dives, I won't get into individual dives. Drills/kicks practiced and tried to perform: frog, mod. frog, mod. flutter,helicopter turns, backward kicks, s-drills, valve drills, shooting a bag, deco stops ..... If my crammed head is starting to unclog, I think those were it. Bouyancy and trim was the foundation of all these skills, and preached and practiced while diving. The devil? - The backwards kick. I've been practicing the last 3 dives, and I still look like I'm trying to hump something underwater. LOL.

We had 5 divers, pretty much newer divers in our group, aside from 1 instructor. We ALL learned so much in this very intense weekend. So much, I didn't want to talk about anything scuba related for 2-3 days. My brain was full. And it wasn't just talk - Dan not only could backup everyrthing he said - he also SHOWED you. He showed me why my drysuit underwear is crap. He showed us why our drysuits were crap, fins crap...... however, he was not gear promoting or bashing certain companies. He simply explained in detail why or why not certain products were good or bad.

Now that DIRF is a pass/fail, I knew none of us would pass. Others in the group, while not egomaniacs, were pretty sure of thier skills, and perhaps a little embarrassed while watching the video of our dives. Dan and Tom didn't have to say anything - the camera says it all. Watching tape of us turn up the bottom, swim into each other, and basically just look like a big ugly CF, was enough to humble even the biggest egomaniac. A thing to remember here folks - it's constructive criticism. We didn't pay these guys money to blow smoke up our ass. Dan pointed out what we were doing wrong, and how we can correct it. Nothing more/nothing less.

Was the course worth it? Every penny. Would I recommend it? Absolutely. Is it hard? Yes. Would I take it again? Yes. Is it for everyone? No. Will I continue on? That I don't know. I'm looking at purchasing a lot of new gear, and Ebaying the old stuff. Most likely I'll be visiting Mr. Mackay on his turf next year, and perhaps try again.

Its sad to see the politics in diving however. Our LDS (who'm my buddy, the instructor in this report works for) has told us she'd rather not have anything "DIR" mentioned at her shop, or to students that we take out for her. "Techie" gear will not be ordered thru her, and the general attitude we get is simply amazing, but yet, she still asks questions. If someone's ego got hurt because of this weekend, it must have been her's when I said Dan was the best diver I had ever seen in the water, and that his course was top notch. Hey, she asked - was I supposed to lie?

SS
 
GlockDiver once bubbled...
Now that DIRF is a pass/fail, I knew none of us would pass.

Did anyone pass?

I doubt it. It is sounding to me like they teach you how much that you don't know, "fail you" and make you come back with the standardized gear and take the course again because the instructors are already that good of divers.

My IANTD Adv. Nitrox was taught by a cave diver and the only way that he insured that we passed was by dragging the course out for about five months, then he had time to teach us without failing us instead of trying to cram all that info in over the course of a weekend. No criticism of anyone or any system is intended here. I am just demonstrating that this is one of those cases where different agencies teach their entry level technical course a little differently. I have read that DIRF works and I have respect for those that teach the course. It is just that is very difficult to totally change someone's style of diving over in a weekend.

Its sad to see the politics in diving however. Our LDS (who'm my buddy, the instructor in this report works for) has told us she'd rather not have anything "DIR" mentioned at her shop, or to students that we take out for her. "Techie" gear will not be ordered thru her, and the general attitude we get is simply amazing,

As to the politics, I know that it happens. I have also been asked not to discuss my "non SSI" diving activities with newer divers as the store owner does not wish divers to think that his AOW course is a certification to do tech diving and be scared away by that. BTW, I paid for my IANTD training through the same shop. The owner just wants to be careful who he is selling technical dive training to. The liability would be a bear if someone got hurt who wasn't ready for the Adv. Nitrox. and decompression diving.
 
ScubaScott once bubbled...
He showed me why my drysuit underwear is crap. He showed us why our drysuits were crap, fins crap...... however, he was not gear promoting or bashing certain companies. He simply explained in detail why or why not certain products were good or bad.

Its sad to see the politics in diving however.

Politics or economics? Does your dive shop happen to sell the undergarment, drysuit, and fins that this instructor showed you were crap? If so, perhaps your LDS simply doesn't want you telling her customers that the gear she's selling them is "crap". And in fact, perhaps for the type of diving that the majority of folks do, it isn't. There's a big difference between telling someone that their gear is "crap" versus explaining that the gear is not appropriate for technical diving.

Also, it's a bit disingenuous to say that DIR-F isn't about selling gear ... specific gear is an integral part of the program. You cannot pass the course without it. So of course it is about selling gear. I know many DIR-trained divers ... and they have all purchased several thousand dollars of gear to pursue that type of diving. Amazingly similar gear, in fact. I doubt they would have done so without the "salesmanship" that comes with the course.

DIR-F is a great program ... I wish I could afford it. But if it's not about selling gear, why would you be contemplating selling off your gear on eBay and buying all that new stuff?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I'd be very weary of training where nobody was expected or intended to pass. If that is the case, then what is the purpose? If there is standard gear required, then it should be required BEFORE the class. If it is necessary for everyone to take the class twice before passing, then perhaps the class should be twice as long? I dunno, sounds really fishy to me.

In college, if there were a class where none of the students passed, the teacher would have to answer for that. Just as they would if all of their students received 'A's.

While I'm not saying that dive training shouldn't be difficult, I don't think it should be impossible. Maybe they shouldn't have accepted a group of new divers. Perhaps they should require so many rec dives before taking the class.

Dunno, I'd be pretty steamed about taking a class, and learning that I would never pass b/c I didn't have the right equipment. Kind of like the teacher waiting until the last day to tell you that a graphing calculator is necessary for the final exam.
 
GlockDiver once bubbled...
I'd be very weary of training where nobody was expected or intended to pass. If that is the case, then what is the purpose?
Too Learn


GlockDiver once bubbled...
If there is standard gear required, then it should be required BEFORE the class.
Yep, and they wouldn't get in the water without it.


GlockDiver once bubbled...

If it is necessary for everyone to take the class twice before passing, then perhaps the class should be twice as long? I dunno, sounds really fishy to me.
Maybe, knowing his own skills he wanted to take the class for the information/skills that were taught, and was not all caught up in getting a C-Card


GlockDiver once bubbled...

In college, if there were a class where none of the students passed, the teacher would have to answer for that. Just as they would if all of their students received 'A's.

While I'm not saying that dive training shouldn't be difficult, I don't think it should be impossible. Maybe they shouldn't have accepted a group of new divers. Perhaps they should require so many rec dives before taking the class.

Dunno, I'd be pretty steamed about taking a class, and learning that I would never pass b/c I didn't have the right equipment. Kind of like the teacher waiting until the last day to tell you that a graphing calculator is necessary for the final exam.

See the point made above.


NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

DIR-F is a great program ... I wish I could afford it. But if it's not about selling gear, why would you be contemplating selling off your gear on eBay and buying all that new stuff?

I see you missed the point of the DIRF class.
 
GlockDiver once bubbled...
I'd be very weary of training where nobody was expected or intended to pass. If that is the case, then what is the purpose? If there is standard gear required, then it should be required BEFORE the class. If it is necessary for everyone to take the class twice before passing, then perhaps the class should be twice as long? I dunno, sounds really fishy to me.


Dunno, I'd be pretty steamed about taking a class, and learning that I would never pass b/c I didn't have the right equipment. Kind of like the teacher waiting until the last day to tell you that a graphing calculator is necessary for the final exam.

With all due respect, you need to check www.gue.com . All the requirements are published on the website and are expected to be read PRIOR to taking the class. Moreover, I know Dan very well and I'm very confident that all the requirements were discussed well in advance.. In fact, all of us GUE instructors go out of our way to make gear available if diver's don't want to spend the money prior to class.. We certainly don't wait until the last day to discuss the "graphing calculator" as you put it..

Moreover, their in absolutely no intention whatsoever to " intend not to pass anyone".. Our sole intention is to set a high bar and not to compromise the integrity of the program and pass otherwise unqualified divers. The skills aren't that difficult, especially when you consider that everyone that takes the class is a certified diver with atleast 25 dives of experience.. Doing skills like mask R&R's, OOA horizontal ascents and so on shouldn't be a receipe fpr an "intentional" failure as you put it.. We just simply don't accept mediocrity or substandard preformance and then pass them with the notation of selling them future classes.. Our goal isn't to certify more diver's, it's to certify more qualified divers..

Hope that clarifies the issue..

Later
 
JeffG once bubbled...

I see you missed the point of the DIRF class.

And I see you also missed my point. I wasn't talking about the DIRF class, per se ... but rather certain comments that were made in the original post.

Scuba Scott said the instructor wasn't trying to sell gear ... or bash certain companies. He went on to say that the instructor SHOWED why certain gear was crap ... if that isn't bashing, what would you call it? And if requiring students to own certain types of gear isn't trying to sell gear, what is it?

I have a great many dive buddies who are DIR trained. To a person they are all excellent divers. Not only do they have great skills, but they have great attitudes about what it takes to be a good dive buddy. I appreciate that about the program.

However, it's not exactly correct to say that DIR instructors don't try to sell gear, or that they don't bash certain types of gear ... they certainly do. It's a business ... and it's run just like any other business ... by selling your product as better than the other guy's. Gear is an important component of the DIR program. If it weren't, students going through the course wouldn't be plunking down thousands of $$ to "do it right".

The purpose of DIR-F is to introduce you to the fundamentals of technical diving, and to provide you with some of the skills required to do it safely. It is also a vehicle to promote and sell you certain types of equipment. It's not coincidence that the same people who promote DIR are also principals in the companies who's gear they promote. It's business, plain and simple.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...


And I see you also missed my point. I wasn't talking about the DIRF class, per se ... but rather certain comments that were made in the original post.
I would say no, I didn't miss your point, but granted what is meant vs typed vs read on the internet is an imperfect communication tool.

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

Scuba Scott said the instructor wasn't trying to sell gear ... or bash certain companies. He went on to say that the instructor SHOWED why certain gear was crap ... if that isn't bashing, what would you call it?
What if the instructor didn't use the word crap, but said something like "Split fins are not very good in Silty environments because of the turbulence they create when moving through water, blah blah blah etc etc.." and that gets shortened to crap on the internet (its a lot easier to type)

Are we both reading too much into what he typed (given each our own bias of course) ...maybe...But I'm not the one with the conspiracy theory .

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

And if requiring students to own certain types of gear isn't trying to sell gear, what is it?
A consistent equipment setup throughout a divers career.

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

I have a great many dive buddies who are DIR trained. To a person they are all excellent divers. Not only do they have great skills, but they have great attitudes about what it takes to be a good dive buddy. I appreciate that about the program.

However, it's not exactly correct to say that DIR instructors don't try to sell gear, or that they don't bash certain types of gear ... they certainly do. It's a business ... and it's run just like any other business ... by selling your product as better than the other guy's. Gear is an important component of the DIR program. If it weren't, students going through the course wouldn't be plunking down thousands of $$ to "do it right".

The purpose of DIR-F is to introduce you to the fundamentals of technical diving, and to provide you with some of the skills required to do it safely. It is also a vehicle to promote and sell you certain types of equipment.

The conspiracy theory....Whos making the money...Lots of people make BP's, Lots make double wings....Halcyon has a short term lock on single wings, but that will change over the next few years.

NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...

It's not coincidence that the same people who promote DIR are also principals in the companies who's gear they promote. It's business, plain and simple.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Nope...Doesn't exist.

Jeff
 
NWGratefulDiver once bubbled...


........ It is also a vehicle to promote and sell you certain types of equipment. It's not coincidence that the same people who promote DIR are also principals in the companies who's gear they promote. It's business, plain and simple.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)



Dear Grateful,

You're just plain wrong here. I've taken or been involved with at least 4 different DIRF classes. Not ONCE was a particular brand mentioned with respect to gear. Every post you have read on this board will support what I have just said.

This course has nothing to do with selling equipment. Nothing.

You're making a terrible assumption that the Halcyon truck pulls up with every Fundy class. It's not the case. There are certain equpment requirements for the class, and they can be satisfied by a number of different manufacturers, with maybe the exception of a single tank wing. And now, that too is available from another source than Halcyon.

I've watched people post about this supposed link between the DIRF class and directors of Halcyon for years now. It amazes me. What kind of credibility do you think MHK and AG, and Dan McKay and Scubaguys would have if this were the case? People aren't stupid. They would see through the charade if there was one. But there isn't any charade because nothing's being sold here other than a quality dive class.

How much money did Halcyon make off my FredT backplate, store bought webbing, PST104 tanks, Highland Mills bands, and Apeks regs? Zero, Nada, Zilch. I do have a Haycon wing because I think it's the best quality available. Yes, they did make something on that.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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