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Thread: A somewhat sad conversation last night

 


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    Crush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crewfish13 View Post
    I'll pitch in as well. I understand that most DIR and tech divers on the board are simply trying to be helpful, but can definitely come off as know-it-alls or jerks. I've seen plenty of threads started with "I'm looking for a BCD. I'm thinking about xxx and yyy. What are the pros and cons?" and quickly turn into "Get a BP/W. You'll thank me later", which usually isn't helpful, regardless of the poster's intentions.
    It is precisely observations such as yours that prompted me to start this thread:SB regulars should respect "flame free zones"

    The text of which is:

    Dear all,

    SB is a great place. I came here a few years ago and learned MUCH from many of you - thank you all.

    This comment mostly pertains to SB regulars. Many, or most of you are very patient with newbs - that is to be commended. However, at times, I feel that some of the regulars (myself included) fail to respect flame free zones. This is easy to understand - how many times do you want to search out and copy your 100 replies from "what camera to buy" when the darned newb could have searched it out just as easily?! New divers are usually new to SB and may not be comfortable with web searches. They cannot be assumed to have the same knowledge as more experienced divers have. If you bother to reply to their post, please take the time to not only give the correct answer, but also mention why the answer is correct (in your opinion) and explain your reasoning - it will educate the newb and make them more likely to participate in SB in the future.

    Cheers,

    Crush
    "While the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning and, for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth."
    — A & L Wachowski

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSandM View Post
    Crewfish, thank you for your comment, because I think it does a great job of illustrating what happens here.

    It is not "DIR" or "GUE" to recommend a backplate, although some of the people who do may dive that way. But there are a TON of people here who use and advocate backplates who have nothing to do with DIR diving. But somehow, we get tarred with that brush.

    And to address another misconception -- DIR, or GUE diving, isn't elitist! ANYONE is welcome to become a GUE diver, if they want to be. And if I could manage it, virtually anybody can
    As usual, the few bad apples in a group (or who like to act like they are) generally paint a very poor picture of the entire group. Same can be said for us newbs - some take diving seriously and want to perfect our skills, some just want to be safe and have fun, and some it's a miracle they come up alive.

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    nimoh's Avatar
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    When I bought my first BC 4 years ago, if I had asked in ScubaBoard for recommendations (I didn't) and someone told me "get a BP/W, you'll thank me later", I probably would have ignored them. However, if I did listen, I would be thanking them today, since after switching to a DIR configuration a year ago, I have never been more comfortable.

    So, I don't think comments such as "get a BP/W, you'll thank me later" are rude, any more than a comment such as "get a jacket BC, you'll thank me later" although personally I think the former is more accurate.

    I think the main issue is that DIR divers are quick to offer opinions on gear configurations, and they all have the same opinion (mostly). Because of this, DIR opinions show up more, and I think people tend to roll their eyes and interpret them as being rude after hearing it so often.

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    Tigerman's Avatar
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    "Get a <whatever>, you'll thank me later" kind of responses is rude regardless who put them forth as they provide absolutely no basis as to WHY you should select it and also imply that "my opinion is the only correct one" and sadly it seems to me that DIR/wanna-DIR divers post such answers more frequently than others either because they just assume everyone to "know why they are right" or because they just subscribe to the DIR idea without really knowing WHY the DIR style of diving preferr the type of gear it preferr.
    If your face aint numb.. It aint a cold water dive!
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    Guba's Avatar
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    I've been on these boards for nearly a decade now, and I can attest to a subtle, yet distinct shift in the way I've come to regard DIR oriented folks. When I first started participating in SB (as a newbie), I witnessed several (perhaps 'quite a few') discussions in which very passionate DIR types...well...sorta showed themselves to be royal 'terminal sphincters'. The attitude was, or at least seemed to be, "you don't dive MY way? You're gonna die!" Or, at the least it was, "you don't want to dive MY way, then I sure don't want to dive with YOU!" In either case, the newbie could very well come away intimated and extremely dubious concerning the philosophy of the system as much as the character of the person involved.
    Thankfully, I haven't witnessed that type of discourse or behavior in quite some time. It might be the influence of the MODS or the posted parameters for discussion, or the attitudes may have just shifted to be a bit more tolerant. It could be that the "friendly majority" have effectively shushed the obnoxious few into being quiet if they couldn't be nice. Whatever the case, I've found the DIR folk to be quite helpful and accomodating as well as downright friendly.
    Hope it stays that way.
    Last edited by Guba; April 12th, 2012 at 02:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerman View Post
    "Get a <whatever>, you'll thank me later" kind of responses is rude regardless who put them forth as they provide absolutely no basis as to WHY you should select it and also imply that "my opinion is the only correct one" and sadly it seems to me that DIR/wanna-DIR divers post such answers more frequently than others either because they just assume everyone to "know why they are right" or because they just subscribe to the DIR idea without really knowing WHY the DIR style of diving preferr the type of gear it preferr.
    good point, when I was writing my post I was thinking of the comment "get a BP/W, you'll thank me later..." where it goes on to explain why. With no explanation, it is somewhat rude, and not at all helpful.

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    JahJahwarrior's Avatar
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    My initial impression of DIR came from the Internet but now I know a few.

    Maybe things are different here in cave country. Does the DIR community hold access to exclusive spots in the ocean out west?

    Don't get me started on what I've been told about my use of sidemount and solo diving

    I'm sure I've said mean things about DIR, but I don't advocate a divide. I abhor rudeness no matter the agency on the card, and I've met far more rude non DIR divers than DIR. I do hope to see more collaboration in the future, like we are seeing more and more now, as well as more realization that Backplates aren't owned by DIR so we can differentiate between the backplate rude people and the DiR rude people, and stop blaming DIR for rude posts by non DIR divers about Backplates

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    nimoh's Avatar
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    I think part of the problem is that part of DIR is to "not dive with unsafe divers", but some divers (including some DIR divers) interpret this as "don't dive with non-DIR divers" which is completely wrong.
    KWS, Ayisha and BDSC like this.

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    oreocookie's Avatar
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    My thought is sorta like crewfish's, it seems that a lot of people who either subscribe to DIR philosophy (or at least parts of it) or who prefer gear configurations that may be associated with DIR have a tendency to respond to some questions as "this is the only way" as opposed to "this is what I think is best, here's why". Perhaps it's that some of these topics (jacket vs bp/w, eg) have been discussed ad noseum, perhaps some of these people have drunk a Kool-aid and don't really know anymore why their choices are better than another option.

    I think the average diver, who has not been exposed to the whole extent of the DIR philosophy, probably associates bp/w and long hose reg with DIR, even though the divers using them might not be. You're going to have zealots and jerks following any possibly philosophy, but if people are associating bp/w and long hose with DIR, then all of a sudden, the bp/w jerks get lumped with the long hose jerks and they all get lumped in with the actual DIR jerks => DIR followers are a big bunch of jerks as opposed to a group with a small amount of jerks like pretty much every other group.
    Procrastinate now, don't put it off.

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    I must admit, I also did not have a good impression of DIR at first. When you represent a group and make negative comments, it hurts the whole group and not the individual and that's unfortunate. Far more non DIR people make negative comments, and because they are not part of a larger group. it goes largely unnoticed, and does not fester.

    I see DIR as the R&D of the dive world. There is not a diver in the world who would not benefit from SOME of the knowledge they are willing to depart. I am not DIR or a technical diver but have adopted some of the great ideas they dive by. It is too bad they get a bad rap.
    Last edited by petrieps; April 12th, 2012 at 03:44 PM.

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