"Open Water Diver Safe Cavern Dives" ???

[Superlyte27]

Recently there was quite a bit of traffic on the forums regarding caverns safe at Open Water cert level. The normal caverns got mentioned like Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Ginnie's Ballroom, Paradise, etc., etc.,

Since I became an instructor it has been my standpoint that proper training is needed regardless of how "safe" these caverns appear to be. In my opinion an overhead environment is an overhead environment, regardless of your perceived risk. That environment demands training. Or at least it should.

So with that said, something happened yesterday at Ginnie Ballroom that really added weight to my above argument. Visibility in the ballroom went to 5'. In a room that is normally 200'+ vis, you could not see the steel grate sitting next to it. If you were 5' from the permanent rope, chances are you weren't seeing it. And most importantly, you couldn't immediately determine which direction was out. The entire room was a milky cloudy white color. Buddies went from great vis where they could see across the room at each other to not being able to find each other 10' apart.

What does this tell us? In my opinion, these caverns might not be "open water safe". It's good luck that the divers in the ballroom yesterday were proficient and comfortable, but how many people would have been in peril if they went from 200' vis to 5' vis within minutes in an unfamiliar cavern where you couldn't immediately find the exit.

Stay safe.

[PfcAJ]

Those "open water safe caverns" will eat your lunch if you're not careful. 2 friends of mine almost bought the farm at Paradise, and I recall a lady losing her weight belt at the Ginnie ballroom and getting pinned the ceiling. She almost didn't make it.

Caverns/ Caves are not something to play with.

[mainedvr]

Tells me that if someone is willing to risk it, that is not someone I want for a dive buddy. From what I have been learning in getting ready for our courses, if your OW that is what you should stick to. JMO

[JamesK]

Yet cave divers get the stereotype that we are elitists when we say you should not enter unless trained.

I wonder what happened back in Ginnie Ballroom to blow it out like that.

Every diver is trained enough to get in to a cave/cavern. It is getting out they are not trained in.

[t4e]

first time i have seen it come up in discussions was in this thread


i strongly believe that OW divers should not be in caverns, guided or not
afaic it is an overhead environment which is off limits unless you have the proper training

[Superlyte27]

I wonder what happened back in Ginnie Ballroom to blow it out like that.

Heavy rain and a flash flood.

[Hetland]

We can debate what an "OW safe" cavern is or isn't, or even if there is such a thing, but I wouldn't include Paradise in even the most liberal interpretation of "OW safe".

[JamesK]

Heavy rain and a flash flood.

Ahh. Thanks. I don't pay much attention to the weather up there at the moment.

[nimoh]

Those "open water safe caverns" will eat your lunch if you're not careful. 2 friends of mine almost bought the farm at Paradise, and I recall a lady losing her weight belt at the Ginnie ballroom and getting pinned the ceiling. She almost didn't make it.

Caverns/ Caves are not something to play with.

My definition of cavern diving has always been that it is a cave where the water level doesn't meet the ceiling, except for possibly a few short swim throughs. If this is correct, how did she get pinned to the ceiling in a cavern, otherwise, what is the difference between a cave and a cavern, if any?

[TSandM]

A cavern is defined by several criteria, which can differ by agency. There does not have to be any air space at the top of it. There MUST be the ability to see light from an exit, and there is a combined depth/penetration distance, which varies from 130 feet to 200.

I don't think OW divers should be in caverns without guides. I do think the Mexican cavern tours have a very acceptable safety record, except for the recent event where the guide appears to have seriously violated the rules. But I'd hate to have four OW divers behind me in Dos Ojos or Pet Cemetery if the viz suddenly deteriorated severely.